2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.9 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Petrof Pianos
Petrof Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Karsten Collection
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Who's Online Now
47 members (akc42, Animisha, Alex_G, Bett, Alex C, Beowulf, ando, 11 invisible), 358 guests, and 272 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Re: Techniques for stability
PianistOne111 #1716234 07/19/11 09:34 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,119
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,119
A counter analogy is a pneumatic impact wrench. It can loosen rusty bolts where a "cheater bar" might shear them off.

To me the basic difference is that with a smooth pull, you can stop anywhere. But with an impact movement the amount the pin moves may be small, but is not as controllable. I use both techniques depending on the situation.


Jeff Deutschle
Part-Time Tuner
Who taught the first chicken how to peck?
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Re: Techniques for stability
UnrightTooner #1716762 07/19/11 09:37 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,665
L
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,665
Originally Posted by UnrightTooner
A counter analogy is a pneumatic impact wrench. It can loosen rusty bolts where a "cheater bar" might shear them off.

To me the basic difference is that with a smooth pull, you can stop anywhere. But with an impact movement the amount the pin moves may be small, but is not as controllable. I use both techniques depending on the situation.


Flawed analogy. If we were talking about breaking tuning pins, the analogy would work.


DiGiorgi Piano Service
http://www.digiorgipiano.com
Re: Techniques for stability
Loren D #1717056 07/20/11 08:06 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,119
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,119
Originally Posted by Loren D
Originally Posted by UnrightTooner
A counter analogy is a pneumatic impact wrench. It can loosen rusty bolts where a "cheater bar" might shear them off.

To me the basic difference is that with a smooth pull, you can stop anywhere. But with an impact movement the amount the pin moves may be small, but is not as controllable. I use both techniques depending on the situation.


Flawed analogy. If we were talking about breaking tuning pins, the analogy would work.


I think the analogy does hold since the question of breaking strings was brought up.


Jeff Deutschle
Part-Time Tuner
Who taught the first chicken how to peck?
Re: Techniques for stability
PianistOne111 #1717295 07/20/11 02:40 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,665
L
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,665
Breaking pins is the same as breaking strings?


DiGiorgi Piano Service
http://www.digiorgipiano.com
Re: Techniques for stability
PianistOne111 #1717387 07/20/11 05:17 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 27,463
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 27,463
Although I get my Mason BB tuned twice a year(January and July), my tech, who teaches some tuning courses at the national convention, said my piano is so stable that I could have it tuned only once a year.

I have a room humidifier and air conditioner that I use to try and keep the humidity constant at around 42%, but the humidity levels are certainly not perfect all the time. Since I am very fussy about the case, I never let any sunlight, even indirect, in the room.

Is it very unusual to have a piano that's so stable?


Last edited by pianoloverus; 07/20/11 05:19 PM.
Re: Techniques for stability
pianoloverus #1717393 07/20/11 05:27 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 824
M
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
M
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 824
If only every customer would take as much care of their piano as you pianoloverus, then our aim of tuning perfection would be soooo much easier. Take your tuner's advice and save up the money to pay for a good service sometime in the future. wow


Concert Tuner & Technician for the past 52 years in the United Kingdom
www.jphillipspianoservices.freeindex.co.uk : E-mail jophillips06@aol.com
Re: Techniques for stability
MU51C JP #1717426 07/20/11 06:14 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 27,463
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 27,463
Originally Posted by Johnkie
If only every customer would take as much care of their piano as you pianoloverus, then our aim of tuning perfection would be soooo much easier.
I actually never thought that what I do was something unusual for a reasonably knowledgable piano owner. I thought of it more like the basic care.

Re: Techniques for stability
PianistOne111 #1717457 07/20/11 06:55 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,205
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,205
Pianoloverus: where do you live - as in which kind of climate?


Patrick Wingren, RPT
Wingren Pianistik
https://facebook.com/wingrenpianistik
Concert Tuner at Schauman Hall, Jakobstad, Finland
Musician, arranger, composer

- - - -
Dedicated to learning the craft of tuning. Getting better.
Re: Techniques for stability
Bill Bremmer RPT #1717584 07/20/11 10:54 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 36
K
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
K
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 36
Thanks, Bill. There are very few discussions that I can contribute anything to at this stage (as opposed to asking questions), so it's nice when my reading can help someone out.

Re: Techniques for stability
PianistOne111 #1717655 07/21/11 01:07 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,758
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,758
Originally Posted by Bill Bremmer RPT
Karen,

Thanks for the Owen Jorgensen summary. Of course, he was my greatest mentor of all. I only disagree with one concept and that is about the necessity of the tuning hammer being parallel to the string, ...


I will dare to add another disagreement, I tune uprights stand up but I seat down for tuning grands.

With grands I only stand up to tune the low bass, if I am tuning with the left hand. I use to tune also the low bass in a seated position tuning with the right hand if there is no room to stand up besides the piano, and the high treble also in a seated position using the left hand. (I am left handed and I use both hands when tuning grands).




Last edited by Gadzar; 07/21/11 01:10 AM.
Re: Techniques for stability
Loren D #1717789 07/21/11 07:28 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,119
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,119
Originally Posted by Loren D
Breaking pins is the same as breaking strings?


No, overcoming the friction of a rusty bolt while reducing the torque by using an impact is similar (not the same which is why analogies are used) to breaking the friction of a string while reducing the tension by using an impact. The same is true for tuning pins also, but there is not a concern over the tuning pin breaking. However, there is a concern over the pin moving too far once the friction has been overcome because of the increased torque that is needed when using a smooth pull.


Jeff Deutschle
Part-Time Tuner
Who taught the first chicken how to peck?
Re: Techniques for stability
pianoloverus #1717851 07/21/11 09:21 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,862
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,862
Originally Posted by pianoloverus

Is it very unusual to have a piano that's so stable?



I don't know but mine sure is, - about a 2005 or 6 Estonia 168. I haven't had mine tuned for 13 months now, (my poor tuner( and it seems perfect). perhaps more in tune now, than 13 months ago when it had set in my unairconditioned new house at super high humidity for 3 weeks due to unforeseen deaths in the family and and a delayed total move for us.,,, and it was then tuned. My tuner almost cried. I had it covered with many quilts, and had put in packets of dessicant, but it did sound awful.

I need to call my tuner just to keep him in business. he is excellent and I really don't know how he tunes.. he stretches it a bit.

Right after being tuned the piano sounds sparkly and and almost a bit unsettling but it 'conforms' after a week or two.


accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)
Re: Techniques for stability
BDB #1721234 07/26/11 12:54 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,764
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,764
Originally Posted by BDB
A cheap lever bends.


OK... I'm going to get a bit heretical around here. I hope I don't get pelted with too many eggs smile

I'm still using the extension lever I bought as a tuning student back in 1978. On very tight pins, that flex can be an advantage... if you know how to "play" it.

I use a technique on tight pins similar to what I think Jeff D. referred to as "pulsing" in one of his earlier posts on this forum.

On jumpy, overly tight pins on grands, I'll hold the lever close to or at the end, and pulse the hammer. In a deliberate, controlled fashion, you make moderate, rapid pulses in the direction you want to go. Even though it seems like the hammer is rotating too much, the shaft will flex and then unflex, ever so slightly slightly nudging the pin. Then, as a last step, you pull back slightly to untwist the pin. The flexing and unflexing of the shaft actually does a lot of the physical work. It also acts a a bit of a shock absorber.

Sometimes it takes a bit of experimentation to find the ideal tempo and amount of force... you sort of find the equivalent of the sweet spot. You get a feel as to how much the foot is moving and how much twist is still in the pin to correct in that last step.

Also, various pins may require you to hold the hammer closer to the tip for more direct control and less flex.

I don't know how this would work for other people, though. I've used only this one tuning lever for the last 33 years, so I'm very familiar with it. I'm also left-handed. It may not work well for right-handers.

Yes, I do also use other approaches as well... mostly slow pull.

Last edited by daniokeeper; 07/26/11 04:35 PM. Reason: Bad math: 33 years, not 32, "bend" changed to "twist"

Joe Gumbosky
Piano Tuning & Repair
www.morethanpianos.com
(semi-retired)

"The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -Marcus Aurelius
Page 2 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
Where Did The Buttons Go?!
----------------------
Our April 2020 Newsletter Available Online Now...
The Piano World During the Pandemic!
----------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Hammer Drilling Jig
by BDB - 07/10/20 12:15 AM
Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series
by Almaviva - 07/09/20 09:57 PM
Chicago's "Colour My World"
by MacMorrighan - 07/09/20 09:53 PM
Re-envisioning the Piano Recital: An Audiovisual Alternative
by Tyrone Slothrop - 07/09/20 08:18 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics200,155
Posts2,978,938
Members97,722
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2020 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4