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#1452058 06/07/10 03:46 PM
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Due to this forum I know, that the sound of the CA63 and CA93 is quite good. But as far as I know, dewsters analysing and the other comments of other users deal only with the main Grand Piano sound.

My question is: How are the other piano sounds of the CA63/CA93. Are they equally well designed and sounding?

Any opinion is appreciated.


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I don't think any of the DP's on the market put as much focus on sound quality of the other sounds. What ever *hype* raved about an instrument, such as the Roland SuperNatural sound, or Yamaha Spacial Acoustic Sampling, only applies to the main piano sound, and some times only to Piano 1 and not even Piano 2. Kawai is probably no exception, though KawaiJames could confirm this.

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I have my CA63 for less than a week but I am sure I will probably never use any of the other piano sounds and actually any of the sounds at all except for the main piano sound. If I am not mistaken the CA63's "Concert Grand 2" is the sound used in the previous generations of Kawai as a main piano sound and it is pretty nasty to my ears. However with the main "Concert Grand" now they have obviously did a big progress. It's up to the personal preference if you would prefer Kawai, Roland or Yamaha sound. The one used in Roland by the trade name of SuperNatural piano has no looping/stretching artifacts however it still bears the traces of the characteristically overprocessed Roland sound in my opinion. Yamaha sound is good but is kind of bright and I found it unsuitable for producing intimate and mellow pianissimo timbre required for Chopin. Kawai is in the middle - not too bright, not too dark, playable and usable.

However after hooking my piano to Synthogy Ivory Steinway and setting a customized velocity curved on Ivory, I think the result is miles ahead of the above. The difference when swtiching from Ivory to the internal sound is so huge! I think it would be the same with Yamaha/Roland though - none of them could match a modern rompler. And Ivory 2 will be released this month adding even bigger samples, half-pedal and string resonance.

Last edited by CyberGene; 06/07/10 04:19 PM.

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The 63 and 93 share many sounds with the MP8II, and the MP5 shares the whole set. I don't know if the 63 and 93 also share the Setup combinations. I've come to really love a lot of the built-in sounds and setups of the MP8II, including the other piano sounds. Some of them are made with other purposes in mind than of using them as a solo instrument (for mixes, layering, zone effects, etc), but some of the pianos, electric pianos, and organs stand up very well solo.

Nothing else to buy, no latency, no crackles, no buffer setting or driver headaches... but you can add sample sets and get any kind of voice you can find on the market.

***

Just saw CyberGene's post. As it happens, I pretty much like the Concert Grand 2... but that's just me. Right now I'm playing some stuff that has three or four voices and needs some long tied notes, so I'm liking a Setup that has a Concert Grand as the loudest voice, with an electric piano and a drawbar organ as quieter layers. My teacher is quick to jump on it if I lose the middle voices.

I'm sure that what Kawai is offering is not the last word that can ever be said, but it's a good effort and I like the flexibility.


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Thank you for the replies.

Is there any information for the Kawai pianos like Yamaha has for its Clavinova models? For the Clavinovas there is a table in each manual describing the technical features of the different sounds.

[Linked Image]

Is there any official or inofficial information like this for CA 63/CA93. Maybe that is a question for Kawai James as it is manual related.



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Mawima, that's a good question.

The current CA93/CA63 owner's manual lists the following table on page pp.57:

[Linked Image]

However, we do not currently list additional information such as key-off sampling etc. If this is something that you believe should be included within the owner's manual, please send me a personal message and I shall add it to my own list of improvements for future reprints of this documentation.

Kind regards,
James
x

EDIT: By the way +1 for posting the image as a PNG. wink


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Originally Posted by Mawima
My question is: How are the other piano sounds of the CA63/CA93. Are they equally well designed and sounding?
Any opinion is appreciated.


Well, let's put it like this: I wouldn't do a live gig playing guitar with a CA63/CA93 eek

The best for no-fuzz, no-tweak classical playing is indeed the Concert Grand combined with heavy touch (okay, that's one small tweak). Nevertheless, there are several other piano sounds of very good quality that are worthwhile, also for other purposes than playing strictly classical. One of my favourites in that field is the Jazz Grand. The Studio Grand, Pop Piano and Modern Piano can also be worthwhile, to name just a few...

Tweaking and layering sounds with different voicing (hammer hardness), layer dynamics and tone control (Equalizer) yields an even wider range of possibilities and is essential i.m.h.o. to be able to adjust everything to your personal taste, especially when looking into all musical styles, not limited to (differences in) classical repertoire. Some early examples can already be found here (additional presets welcome): http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubb...ly%20for%20KAWAI%20CA93.html#Post1450613


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Originally Posted by TADutchman
Well, let's put it like this: I wouldn't do a live gig playing guitar with a CA63/CA93 eek

The best for no-fuzz, no-tweak classical playing is indeed the Concert Grand combined with heavy touch (okay, that's one small tweak). Nevertheless, there are several other piano sounds of very good quality that are worthwhile, also for other purposes than playing strictly classical. One of my favourites in that field is the Jazz Grand. The Studio Grand, Pop Piano and Modern Piano can also be worthwhile, to name just a few...

Tweaking and layering sounds with different voicing (hammer hardness), layer dynamics and tone control (Equalizer) yields an even wider range of possibilities and is essential i.m.h.o. to be able to adjust everything to your personal taste, especially when looking into all musical styles, not limited to (differences in) classical repertoire. Some early examples can already be found here (additional presets welcome): http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubb...ly%20for%20KAWAI%20CA93.html#Post1450613

Thank you, TADutchman, for your tips. In my opinion even the really good guitar from the CVPs is not worth using, because as good as it is, you immediately recongnize it as not a real guitar. A good player helps but even then it sounds unreal.

For me it already helps, to know that even the other piano sound than the main Grand Piano are quite elaborate with string resonances and damper resonances. So I am looking forward to using them.


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Originally Posted by Kawai James
EDIT: By the way +1 for posting the image as a PNG. wink

Of course PNG. PNG is the format of choice for web and text in graphics. Isn't it? JPEG does harm to the eye with text. wink


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Originally Posted by CyberGene
I have my CA63 for less than a week but I am sure I will probably never use any of the other piano sounds and actually any of the sounds at all except for the main piano sound. If I am not mistaken the CA63's "Concert Grand 2" is the sound used in the previous generations of Kawai as a main piano sound and it is pretty nasty to my ears. However with the main "Concert Grand" now they have obviously did a big progress. It's up to the personal preference if you would prefer Kawai, Roland or Yamaha sound. The one used in Roland by the trade name of SuperNatural piano has no looping/stretching artifacts however it still bears the traces of the characteristically overprocessed Roland sound in my opinion. Yamaha sound is good but is kind of bright and I found it unsuitable for producing intimate and mellow pianissimo timbre required for Chopin. Kawai is in the middle - not too bright, not too dark, playable and usable.

However after hooking my piano to Synthogy Ivory Steinway and setting a customized velocity curved on Ivory, I think the result is miles ahead of the above. The difference when swtiching from Ivory to the internal sound is so huge! I think it would be the same with Yamaha/Roland though - none of them could match a modern rompler. And Ivory 2 will be released this month adding even bigger samples, half-pedal and string resonance.


I know it is over a year since this post was made but I just purchased a CA-63 and I see this reference to Synthogy Ivory Steinway. I have seen other references to this type of software and am wondering if this is something I should look into AND if I do, could someone give me a heads up on how to actually implement it ? At least, a general picture.


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I know it is over a year since this post was made but I just purchased a CA-63 and I see this reference to Synthogy Ivory Steinway. I have seen other references to this type of software and am wondering if this is something I should look into AND if I do, could someone give me a heads up on how to actually implement it ? At least, a general picture.
[/quote]

There are MANY of there software piano instruments out there. Take you time. Something price and quality do not correlate. With software there is not reason to thinl they should because it costs neraly zero to manufacture. You pay only for the right to use it.

The mechanics is as follows...

1) you disable the sound on your piano and conect the MIDI cable to your computer via a special kind of cable. "MIDI" only transmits your key motin ("A2 is down") and not any of the sound.

2) software in the computer, like Ivory or Pianoteq reads the MIDI data and generates sound, Much the same way the processor inside the DP works.

3) the sound that comes out the computer's audio interface and goes to whatever audio system you plug into that interface. It could be heaphones or a home stereo system or a PA system or studio monitors.

4) most all of this software can be run by itself but also you have the option of runing as a "plug-in" to a bigger system called a "DAW, digital audio workstation. With theis you can record and edit the music, apply mixing or masting type effects and all kinds of other things. SOme of the piano software ONLY works inside one of these larger systems

5) if your computer is an Apple Mac. allof the above is already built in andinstalled. There is a primitive software piano, a DAW and "good enough" audiointerface and the drivers you need. MS Windows based PCs need more work to set up, you'll need an audio/MIDI interface and some audio drivers and soon.

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ChrisA:

Thank You for that rundown of the process. I can tell you it is not for me ... lol

I will just have to "live" with the sound I already have. It will be fine, I am sure.

Thanks Again.


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Originally Posted by ChrisA
There are MANY of there software piano instruments out there. Take you time. Something price and quality do not correlate. With software there is not reason to thinl they should because it costs neraly zero to manufacture. You pay only for the right to use it.


I don't wish to be rude Chris, but could you perhaps read your posts before clicking the 'Submit' button?

The content of your posts is usually very informative, however there are often a number of grammatical errors and typos that can hinder readability.

My apologies in advance if you are not a native English speaker.

Cheers,
James
x


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Originally Posted by Kawai James

My apologies in advance if you are not a native English speaker.


Positive. He's from Curlifornia and they should have a more relaaaxed view on things like grammar...


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