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Which scale includes all 5 black keys #1705340
06/30/11 11:01 PM
06/30/11 11:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 50
India
saurabh Offline OP
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saurabh  Offline OP
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Can anyone please tell me which scale covers all 5 black keys?

thanks in advance

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Re: Which scale includes all 5 black keys [Re: saurabh] #1705347
06/30/11 11:23 PM
06/30/11 11:23 PM
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Lower Mainland, BC
scepticalforumguy Offline
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B maj, C# maj (Db maj)and Gb maj (F#maj) to name a few.


Recordings of my recent solo piano and piano/keyboard trio jazz standards.


Re: Which scale includes all 5 black keys [Re: saurabh] #1705353
06/30/11 11:34 PM
06/30/11 11:34 PM
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Pike County, PA
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AllShookUp Offline
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That's a very interesting question, but why do you ask? There are more musical scales than religions.



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Re: Which scale includes all 5 black keys [Re: saurabh] #1705368
07/01/11 12:13 AM
07/01/11 12:13 AM
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findingnemo2010 Offline
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b major


music to me is kind of like putting together pieces of a puzzle
i call it the paino because its where i put all my pain
Re: Which scale includes all 5 black keys [Re: saurabh] #1705551
07/01/11 10:41 AM
07/01/11 10:41 AM
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ukbuk Offline
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Since I like to be a clever arse now and then, D#/Eb minor pentatonic uses ONLY the black keys (no white keys at all). smile


Restarted piano in September 2010 after previous misguided attempts to learn without a teacher.
Re: Which scale includes all 5 black keys [Re: AllShookUp] #1705618
07/01/11 12:27 PM
07/01/11 12:27 PM
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Posts: 7,203
So. California
jazzwee Offline
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Originally Posted by AllShookUp
There are more musical scales than religions.


This is the most clever answer smile

Any combination of notes can be called a scale and many are not "officially" named.

However, among major scales, F#(Gb), B(Cb), C#(Db) (and all other enharmonic variations) are generally known to use all the black keys.


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Re: Which scale includes all 5 black keys [Re: saurabh] #1705833
07/01/11 06:02 PM
07/01/11 06:02 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
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Sweden
TheodorN Offline
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Jazzwee, by enharmonic variations, do you mean only the relative minor scales of the major scales concerned*, or are there other enharmonic variations?

*For the record, the relative minor scales of the B, Gb/F# and Db/C# major scales, are Ab/G# (minor), Eb/D# (minor) and Bb/A# (minor), respectively. Hope I got this right!

Last edited by Pianotehead; 07/01/11 06:02 PM.

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Re: Which scale includes all 5 black keys [Re: saurabh] #1705845
07/01/11 06:26 PM
07/01/11 06:26 PM
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jazzwee Offline
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LOL - Pianonotehead, yes relative minors are certainly in there but I said 'Major Scales' to avoid that.

I'm sure someone will prove how smart they are by pointing out also the enharmonic double flats and double sharps...:)



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Re: Which scale includes all 5 black keys [Re: saurabh] #1705885
07/01/11 07:40 PM
07/01/11 07:40 PM
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Sweden
TheodorN Offline
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I wasn't trying to prove how smart I am, I thought everybody knew that. ha I was just curious*, because of this elegant phrase of yours, enharmonic variations, if there were other such variations than the relative minor scales of major ones.

So the question still is: what are the other enharmonic variations, I mean of the major scales to be exact, and prevent any (major) misunderstanding.

Last edited by Pianotehead; 07/01/11 07:40 PM.

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Re: Which scale includes all 5 black keys [Re: saurabh] #1705910
07/01/11 08:35 PM
07/01/11 08:35 PM
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Sciota, Pennsylvania
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Michael Steen Offline
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BTW, when I first learned to play the B major scale, I couldn't BELIEVE how easy it was compared to the C major scale! I had been afraid, initially, of the black keys, but that cured me.

I mean I know that it all begins with middle C on the circle of 5ths, but if you want to scare the beginning student, start him on the C major scale. If you want to show him that scales are nothing to be afraid of, start him on the B major.


I'm getting there--note by note.
Re: Which scale includes all 5 black keys [Re: TheodorN] #1705961
07/01/11 10:14 PM
07/01/11 10:14 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,203
So. California
jazzwee Offline
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Originally Posted by Pianotehead
I wasn't trying to prove how smart I am, I thought everybody knew that. ha I was just curious*, because of this elegant phrase of yours, enharmonic variations, if there were other such variations than the relative minor scales of major ones.

So the question still is: what are the other enharmonic variations, I mean of the major scales to be exact, and prevent any (major) misunderstanding.


I didn't mean you Pianonotehead smile . I meant keys like double sharps and double flats like I stated. Dbb, B##, and such rarely encountered nonsense.


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Re: Which scale includes all 5 black keys [Re: saurabh] #1705979
07/01/11 10:49 PM
07/01/11 10:49 PM
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Sweden
TheodorN Offline
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No problem, however I've seen those double flats/sharps on scores, never played from such a sheet though.

Don't understand it, seems a bit far fetched to raise or lower a note more than once. Can I expect to see a middle C in sheet music for some advanced piece, and I'll actually be playing it far down the bass, because of a huge number of flat signs? laugh

All joking aside, I probably shouldn't be worrying about this, I'm up to my knees trying to keep time in simple rhytms, consisting of nothing but quarter and eight notes,plus a few dotted ones.


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Re: Which scale includes all 5 black keys [Re: saurabh] #1706412
07/02/11 08:57 PM
07/02/11 08:57 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 170
Eastern US
Frito Offline
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I have heard that Irving Berlin played only in the key of F#! He enjoyed playing primarily on the black keys. His piano had a lever that moved the strings in relation to the hammer, so that he could play in other keys while keeping the same fingerings for the key of F#.

Re: Which scale includes all 5 black keys [Re: Frito] #1706420
07/02/11 09:08 PM
07/02/11 09:08 PM
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Virginia, USA
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Andy Platt Offline
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Originally Posted by Frito
I have heard that Irving Berlin played only in the key of F#! He enjoyed playing primarily on the black keys. His piano had a lever that moved the strings in relation to the hammer, so that he could play in other keys while keeping the same fingerings for the key of F#.


One of his transposing pianos is on display at the National Museum of American Jewish History in Philly.

Supposedly he said that the key of C was for those who "study music"!


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Re: Which scale includes all 5 black keys [Re: saurabh] #1706427
07/02/11 09:27 PM
07/02/11 09:27 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
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Georgia, USA
Rickster Offline
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Although my “by-ear” favorite keys are F major, C major, and G major (in that order) I too am learning to appreciate and play in the black key scales.

F# is particularly nice. I also like Bb because the lowest Bb in the bass sounds really nice. I also like Eb. A lot of gospel songs and church hymns are in Eb and Ab.

Someone here once mentioned a formula for easily identifying the key signature in most written music, but it escapes me at the moment… lots of very smart folks of the PW forums.

Rick


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Re: Which scale includes all 5 black keys [Re: Rickster] #1706441
07/02/11 09:54 PM
07/02/11 09:54 PM
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Posts: 4,239
Maine
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PianoStudent88 Offline
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Major keys:

Sharps, move a half step up from the last #, that's the key. E.g. Sharps F#, C#, G#, D#. Last sharp is D#. Move a half step up: key is E major.

Flats, the next to last flat is the key. E.g. Flats Bb, Eb, Ab, Db. Next to last flat is Ab: key of Ab major. Memorize one flat (Bb): key of F major.

Minor keys:

work out the major key, then count three half steps down for the Minor key. E.g. Sharps F#, C#, G#, D#, A#. If it were major, would be B major. If it's minor, count down A#, A, G#. Key of G# minor.


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Re: Which scale includes all 5 black keys [Re: saurabh] #1706445
07/02/11 10:12 PM
07/02/11 10:12 PM
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Maine
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PianoStudent88 Offline
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Double sharps and double flats are to preserve the correct spelling of chords.

The basic rule is that in a root position triad or seventh chord, the letters (ignoring sharps and flats) skip a letter each time. For example, Cdim7 is C, Eb, Gb, Bbb (that's for the fully diminished C chord). And Baug is B, D#, F##.


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Re: Which scale includes all 5 black keys [Re: Andy Platt] #1706551
07/03/11 08:05 AM
07/03/11 08:05 AM
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Eastern US
Frito Offline
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[quote=Andy Platt One of his transposing pianos is on display at the National Museum of American Jewish History in Philly.

Supposedly he said that the key of C was for those who "study music"! [/quote]Iwonder if any of these "transposing pianos" are still available in a rebuilt state. Might be really great for playing popular music. Reminds me of using a capo on a guitar.

Re: Which scale includes all 5 black keys [Re: Frito] #1706755
07/03/11 04:21 PM
07/03/11 04:21 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,477
Lower Mainland, BC
scepticalforumguy Offline
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Originally Posted by Frito
[quote=Andy Platt One of his transposing pianos is on display at the National Museum of American Jewish History in Philly.

Supposedly he said that the key of C was for those who "study music"!
Iwonder if any of these "transposing pianos" are still available in a rebuilt state. Might be really great for playing popular music. Reminds me of using a capo on a guitar. [/quote]

On the west coast of Canada they're still available, but quite rare. Very interesting instruments because they also have extra keys at the bottom like a Bosendorfer, or at least the ones I saw have this.


Recordings of my recent solo piano and piano/keyboard trio jazz standards.


Re: Which scale includes all 5 black keys [Re: saurabh] #1706880
07/03/11 08:55 PM
07/03/11 08:55 PM
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Montreal Canada
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John_In_Montreal Offline
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There is also one of the pentatonic scales... try it from F# smile

John


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