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#1702483 - 06/26/11 04:12 PM which one is better for a beginner, kawai cl-36\cn-23\cn-33?  
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maomao Offline
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hallo, everyone.
I am a beginner and want to buy a DP. I am very interested on kawai cl-36 and cn-23.
http://www.kawai.de/cn23_de.htm
http://www.kawai.de/cl36_de.htm
the functions of these 2 DPs are so similar, and it seems the cl-36 is much better, cause cl-36 is only 900Euro,but cn23 is 1200Euro.
who can tell me, the differences between these two DPs, and is it worth if I pay 300Euro more on CN-23?
thank u for answering my questions.

Last edited by maomao; 07/01/11 04:08 AM.
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#1702496 - 06/26/11 04:45 PM Re: which one is better for a beginner, kawai cl-36 or cn-23? [Re: maomao]  
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Gyro Offline
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If you look closely at the photos, you'll note that the CN 23 has a bigger keyboard assembly, which makes it look more like an acoustic console piano, which is important to some people. The larger size means it's more expensive to manufacture, and it's heavier, which means greater handling and shipping costs for the manufacturer. And the larger keyboard assembly gives room for bigger speakers, which should give a bigger sound than the more compact CL 36.

Also, if you look on the left side of the website, there is a hierarchy of Kawai models, starting with the CA series, the most expensive, and then going down to the CS, CN, MP, ES, and CL series. The CL series is lowest on the hierarchy and so it apparently doesn't rate highly in the Kawai line; they are a compact model, designed for economical manufacturing. They don't look much like an acoustic console, as ease of manufacture is given precedence over appearance.

However, the specs are roughly similar in the CN 23 and CL 36, although the CN 23 would probably have the better sound. So for everyday playing, there should be little practical difference between the two.

Last edited by Gyro; 06/26/11 04:49 PM.
#1702517 - 06/26/11 05:35 PM Re: which one is better for a beginner, kawai cl-36 or cn-23? [Re: maomao]  
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Kawai James Offline
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maomao, the CN23 and CL36 share the same core keyboard, sound, and feature specifications. However, as Gyro correctly notes, the CN23 features a larger cabinet with a sliding cover and a more powerful amplifier/speaker combination. Another important point is that the CL36 uses an AC power adaptor, whereas the CN23 uses a power cable.

I hope this helps.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#1702604 - 06/26/11 09:18 PM Re: which one is better for a beginner, kawai cl-36 or cn-23? [Re: Kawai James]  
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011.guilherme Offline
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It seems James mixed up a few numbers and letters regarding the models...
I would try and correct it, but I'm not sure which one uses an AC adaptor instead of solely a power cable.

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#1702605 - 06/26/11 09:22 PM Re: which one is better for a beginner, kawai cl-36 or cn-23? [Re: 011.guilherme]  
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Kawai James Offline
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011.guilherme, thank you for pointing out these errors - I have corrected my post accordingly.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#1702615 - 06/26/11 09:42 PM Re: which one is better for a beginner, kawai cl-36 or cn-23? [Re: Kawai James]  
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011.guilherme Offline
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
011.guilherme, thank you for pointing out these errors - I have correct my post accordingly.

Kind regards,
James
x


Nah, don't mention that. That's what we're here at the forum for: Pointing out people's mistakes! whistle

Just kidding...

But anyway, the Kawai's seem to be excelent choices. I'd personaly go with the CN23 in your case, as long budget wasn't a concern on that situation. The CN23 seems to be more sturdy, more visually appealing overall and has better speakers.
In fact, it is my alternative in case I don't like the Yamaha CLP 340 when I test it by the end of next month. I'd prefer to have CN33 in CN23's place, but it's completely not avaliable in my country. cry

Either way, I'll probably be testing both the Kawai and the Yamaha, so I'll be glad to feedback my experience to the forum then - But there's still a long time to go.

#1702772 - 06/27/11 05:45 AM Re: which one is better for a beginner, kawai cl-36 or cn-23? [Re: maomao]  
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maomao Offline
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Originally Posted by Gyro
If you look closely at the photos, you'll note that the CN 23 has a bigger keyboard assembly, which makes it look more like an acoustic console piano, which is important to some people. The larger size means it's more expensive to manufacture, and it's heavier, which means greater handling and shipping costs for the manufacturer. And the larger keyboard assembly gives room for bigger speakers, which should give a bigger sound than the more compact CL 36.

Also, if you look on the left side of the website, there is a hierarchy of Kawai models, starting with the CA series, the most expensive, and then going down to the CS, CN, MP, ES, and CL series. The CL series is lowest on the hierarchy and so it apparently doesn't rate highly in the Kawai line; they are a compact model, designed for economical manufacturing. They don't look much like an acoustic console, as ease of manufacture is given precedence over appearance.

However, the specs are roughly similar in the CN 23 and CL 36, although the CN 23 would probably have the better sound. So for everyday playing, there should be little practical difference between the two.


thank u all for the suggestions. I have called all the Pianohouses in the near of my city, all of them dont have the Modell CL-36. but one of them suggested, i should have a try on CN33, it is much better then cn23. tomorrow i will go out for trying them, will tell u my feeling after that. c u tomorrow.
http://www.kawai.de/cn33_de.htm

Last edited by maomao; 06/27/11 05:54 AM.
#1702777 - 06/27/11 05:52 AM Re: which one is better for a beginner, kawai cl-36 or cn-23? [Re: Kawai James]  
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maomao Offline
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
maomao, the CN23 and CL36 share the same core keyboard, sound, and feature specifications. However, as Gyro correctly notes, the CN23 features a larger cabinet with a sliding cover and a more powerful amplifier/speaker combination. Another important point is that the CL36 uses an AC power adaptor, whereas the CN23 uses a power cable.

I hope this helps.

Kind regards,
James
x


thank u for your Infos.
I am intersted on the cl-36 and cn-23, cause I am only a beginner and want to change it for a real piano in 2 or 3 years later. but someone suggested me that, i should buy a cn33 and dont need to change for a real one anymore. what do u think, for a player with middle level, is the cn33 enough?

and do u know, since when was it sold in europe markt?

Last edited by maomao; 06/27/11 05:55 AM.
#1702957 - 06/27/11 12:21 PM Re: which one is better for a beginner, kawai cl-36 or cn-23? [Re: maomao]  
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NSA Offline
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The CN-33 is absolutely good enough for your level. It had the best touch and sound of all the piano's in its price range, when I tested it last week.

Good luck!

Nashwan

Last edited by NSA; 06/27/11 12:22 PM.

Kawai CN-33
Korg PA-800
#1703129 - 06/27/11 05:25 PM Re: which one is better for a beginner, kawai cl-36 or cn-23? [Re: maomao]  
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Kawai James Offline
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maomao, there is no substitute for an acoustic grand piano, however the CN33 offers a very acceptable compromise at an attractive price.

To answer your other question, this instrument was launched in early 2010.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#1705130 - 06/30/11 06:10 PM Re: which one is better for a beginner, kawai cl-36 or cn-23? [Re: Kawai James]  
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maomao Offline
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
maomao, there is no substitute for an acoustic grand piano, however the CN33 offers a very acceptable compromise at an attractive price.

To answer your other question, this instrument was launched in early 2010.

Kind regards,
James
x


hi, kawai james, i have tried the cn33 today. but cn23 is not in showroom, what a pity. so i compared with the cn23 and cn33 once more,my questions are:

1,what does it mean by Pressure point simulation (in German:Druckpunkt Simulation, which is better then cn23) ? today i have tried other DPs of yamaha(YDP141 and 161) and Roland(FP 4, GX-1s(maybe the name is wrong, but it costs 3400Euro)), too. I found that it is not easy to control the force of my fingers on cn33. i must pay attention and be very carefull to the force of my fingers, so that i dont make some mistakes(some times too loud and some times too light). at the same time, i played the same song on the others, the mistakes are not so clear, which means it is easier to play perfectly on the others. is this because of the Pressure point simulation? is it important for a beginner?

2,which other functions of cn33 are important for a beginner in 2-3 years? (I think there are too many funcitons, which i wont use or i dont care, what i need is only a DP to practise as a real piano, i care only about the action and the sound)

3,by DPs, is it ok if i choose a showroom-piece? cause the showroom-piece of cn33 is 1300Euro(100Euro cheaper then a new one,but only 2 years guarantee). but as i known, DPs are very sensitive instruments. I am worried about the lifetime, maybe it is shorter then a new one?

and i found also an other showroom-piece by a internet shop, which is only 1200Euro but with 3 years guarantee.do u think this price is worther?

actually, the my budget was only 1000Euro at the first, but i would like to pay more for a better aciton and better sound.


4,today i have asked other shops, they told me that, the prices of cn-33 are different, if i choose a different color. since the models are calculated differently. kawai james, do u know if there is a different Internal structure of different cn-33?

Last edited by maomao; 07/01/11 10:06 AM.
#1705408 - 07/01/11 04:34 AM Re: which one is better for a beginner, kawai cl-36 or cn-23? [Re: maomao]  
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spanishbuddha Online content
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maomao, you can adjust the keyboard touch on the CN33. When I first got mine I too struggled to control the dynamics. I'm still a beginner and this is a lot to do with learning technique, but by setting the keyboard touch to heavy1 or heavy2 you can smooth out some inconsistencies. Then, once you are accustomed to the keyboard, and in my case playing improves, you can set the keyboard touch to normal or even light.

Maybe you can visit the store again and try adjusting the touch?

#1705499 - 07/01/11 10:08 AM Re: which one is better for a beginner, kawai cl-36 or cn-23? [Re: spanishbuddha]  
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maomao Offline
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Originally Posted by spanishbuddha
maomao, you can adjust the keyboard touch on the CN33. When I first got mine I too struggled to control the dynamics. I'm still a beginner and this is a lot to do with learning technique, but by setting the keyboard touch to heavy1 or heavy2 you can smooth out some inconsistencies. Then, once you are accustomed to the keyboard, and in my case playing improves, you can set the keyboard touch to normal or even light.

Maybe you can visit the store again and try adjusting the touch?


yes, thank u for the suggestion. i will try it again next time.

today i have asked other shops, they told me that, the prices of cn-33 are different, if i choose a different color. since the models are calculated differently.i am wondering if there is a different Internal structure of different cn-33?

#1705557 - 07/01/11 11:52 AM Re: which one is better for a beginner, kawai cl-36 or cn-23? [Re: maomao]  
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MacMacMac Offline
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The base piano is the same regardless of finish. Certain finishes are more expensive to produce (or may simply be deemed more desirable), so the selling price will be higher. But still, there is no functional difference among pianos of the same model.

#1705659 - 07/01/11 02:22 PM Re: which one is better for a beginner, kawai cl-36 or cn-23? [Re: MacMacMac]  
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I'd like to ask a question about the CN23 blush
Is there any way to save changed settings on it? - Settings such as the touch sensitivity and damper effect strength level...

I wonder if the default settings are just fine for playing mostly classical music. Besides, I think it lacks connectivity, that's why I'm a little reluctant to buy it frown

#1705876 - 07/01/11 08:15 PM Re: which one is better for a beginner, kawai cl-36 or cn-23? [Re: maomao]  
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Kawai James Offline
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011.guilherme, unfortunately the CN23 does not feature a 'User Memory' function (found on the CN33+), therefore it is not possible to store adjusted settings such as Touch, Damper Effect strength etc.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#1705879 - 07/01/11 08:27 PM Re: which one is better for a beginner, kawai cl-36 or cn-23? [Re: maomao]  
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Originally Posted by maomao
i am wondering if there is a different Internal structure of different cn-33?



As MacMacMac says, there are no internal differences between the different finishes.

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

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