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Re: Yamaha pianos that are made in China??? [Re: Ken Woodrow] #1704308
06/29/11 12:52 PM
06/29/11 12:52 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 31
Bay Area
K
Ken Woodrow Offline OP
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Ken Woodrow  Offline OP
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K

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Bay Area
Thank you for responding but you have missed the point.

If I wanted a chinese piano I would buy one, I disagree with all that are trying to convince me to try and change my mind.

I would like to say that If I want to pay for a Japanese piano I just want to be sure I am getting a Japanese piano, If I wanted a Chinese piano I do not want to pay a German price.

The original question was, What Yamaha pianos are made 100% in Japan and which are made in China? If there is a percentage then include that information. If you do not know the answers to the Yamaha question, do not respond with other sales schtick about the quality of the chinese pianos or german pianos you sell or wish to promote.

The other part of the question was about group buys and whether Yamaha only sells the pianos that have chinese components or assembly, because the benefit to the group purchase is obviously just about the low price.

PS: My wife is from China and will not buy a chinese piano, and furthmore, do not tell her China is not the best country in the world, been there done that.

Thank you.


In the market and looking for the best for the least...like everybody!
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Re: Yamaha pianos that are made in China??? [Re: Ken Woodrow] #1704309
06/29/11 12:56 PM
06/29/11 12:56 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 31
Bay Area
K
Ken Woodrow Offline OP
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Ken Woodrow  Offline OP
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Oops.... wrote, before I read Turandot.

Turandot...I have the utmost respect for, He knows what He/She is talking about and seems to stay on point.

Thank you!

Last edited by Ken Woodrow; 06/29/11 01:01 PM.

In the market and looking for the best for the least...like everybody!
Re: Yamaha pianos that are made in China??? [Re: Ken Woodrow] #1704316
06/29/11 01:01 PM
06/29/11 01:01 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 832
L
Lingyis Offline
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Originally Posted by Ken Woodrow
Thank you for responding but you have missed the point.

If I wanted a chinese piano I would buy one, I disagree with all that are trying to convince me to try and change my mind.

I would like to say that If I want to pay for a Japanese piano I just want to be sure I am getting a Japanese piano, If I wanted a Chinese piano I do not want to pay a German price.

The original question was, What Yamaha pianos are made 100% in Japan and which are made in China? If there is a percentage then include that information. If you do not know the answers to the Yamaha question, do not respond with other sales schtick about the quality of the chinese pianos or german pianos you sell or wish to promote.

The other part of the question was about group buys and whether Yamaha only sells the pianos that have chinese components or assembly, because the benefit to the group purchase is obviously just about the low price.

PS: My wife is from China and will not buy a chinese piano, and furthmore, do not tell her China is not the best country in the world, been there done that.

Thank you.


I grew up in Macao and even back then apparently the vast majority of Yamaha pianos are Vietnamese made.

I went back there for a trip last year and an experienced piano tech told me that the Yamaha very rarely export pianos made in Japan. Indeed, he said that second-hand Yamahas made in Japan sell at a substantial premium.

If I remember him correctly, you can indeed tell where a Yamaha is made by its serial number, which is how he identified the one in Macau as made in Vietnam.

I suppose many Yamahas are now made in China.

So in short, yes you can tell by serial numbers which ones are made where, but if you're buying new Yamahas it's exceedingly unlikely they're made in Japan.

Last edited by Lingyis; 06/29/11 01:02 PM.
Re: Yamaha pianos that are made in China??? [Re: Ken Woodrow] #1704317
06/29/11 01:02 PM
06/29/11 01:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 558
Rio Grande Valley of Texas
Guapo Gabacho Offline
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Does this answer your question?

The uprights are the very popular 48" model U1; the 48" model T121 in a less-expensive cabinet (otherwise the same as the U1); the new 48" model T121SC, made in China, with a slow-close fallboard; and the 52" model U3. Model U3 joins model U5 (now available only as a Super U model — see below) in the use of a "floating" soundboard — the soundboard is not completely attached to the back at the top, allowing it to vibrate a little more freely to enhance tonal performance. A new Super U series of uprights (YUS1, YUS3, and YUS5) have different hammers and get additional tuning and voicing at the factory, including voicing by machine to create a more consistent, more mellow tone. Model YUS5 uses German Röslau music wire instead of Yamaha wire, also for a mellower tone. This top-of-the-line 52" upright also has agraffes, duplex scaling, and a sostenuto pedal (all other Yamaha verticals have a practice/mute pedal). Except for the model T121SC, made in China, the uprights are all made in Japan.
SOURCE: http://www.pianobuyer.com/spring11/197.html

Re: Yamaha pianos that are made in China??? [Re: Ken Woodrow] #1704318
06/29/11 01:04 PM
06/29/11 01:04 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 521
Washington, D.C.
Aliwally Offline
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Aliwally  Offline
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Originally Posted by Ken Woodrow
Thank you for responding but you have missed the point.

If I wanted a chinese piano I would buy one, I disagree with all that are trying to convince me to try and change my mind.

I would like to say that If I want to pay for a Japanese piano I just want to be sure I am getting a Japanese piano, If I wanted a Chinese piano I do not want to pay a German price.

The original question was, What Yamaha pianos are made 100% in Japan and which are made in China? If there is a percentage then include that information. If you do not know the answers to the Yamaha question, do not respond with other sales schtick about the quality of the chinese pianos or german pianos you sell or wish to promote.

The other part of the question was about group buys and whether Yamaha only sells the pianos that have chinese components or assembly, because the benefit to the group purchase is obviously just about the low price.

PS: My wife is from China and will not buy a chinese piano, and furthmore, do not tell her China is not the best country in the world, been there done that.

Thank you.



Welcome to Piano World.


Yamaha P-120, Feurich 122

Always look ahead, but never look back. - Miles Davis
Re: Yamaha pianos that are made in China??? [Re: Ken Woodrow] #1704336
06/29/11 01:36 PM
06/29/11 01:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
torrance, CA
turandot Offline
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Thanks. I'll try to stay on point

Quote
The other part of the question was about group buys and whether Yamaha only sells the pianos that have chinese components or assembly, because the benefit to the group purchase is obviously just about the low price.


If I understand this correctly, you have a concern that Yamaha would slip through pianos with a higher foreign parts content to group buyers than the pianos stocked and sold individually at higher margin.

I know that's not the case in SoCal, and I really doubt it's the case in the Bar area. Yamaha is not going to promote group sales openly or even acknowledge them because of a need to maintain good relationships with all its dealers. However, it is preposterous to assume that they are unaware of group sales, and taking advantage of price-conscious shoppers by shipping them a lower standard of piano than they would find in the showroom would not be the Yamaha way.

In terms of Japanese purity in all parts, I think it's probably unrealistic at this point except at their highest-pricced lines. Certainly Yamaha would not buy from other manufacturers to lower costs. Their global structure makes this unnecessary. But with their very own factories in Indonesia and China, I would assume that they would do a little mixing and matching of parts because ultimately they would be standing behind those parts the same as they would stand behind anything they manufacture in Japan.

The further you go up the price ladder with Yamaha series, the smaller the percentage of such mixing and matching is likely to be. I think you're on safe ground with a U1 or U3, not that it's likely to be 100% pure, but that it will be pure enough that you needn't be concerned.


Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier
Re: Yamaha pianos that are made in China??? [Re: turandot] #1704338
06/29/11 01:43 PM
06/29/11 01:43 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,112
Toronto, Ontario
Sparky McBiff Offline
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Originally Posted by turandot
...Only problem is you couldn't forestall a certain itinerant retailer's personal Ode To Joy to Chinese product. grin


I think that is somewhat unfair.
I find it hard to believe that any other retailer that happens to also sell a Chinese brand (and almost all of them do) would be similarly singled out if he happened to comment on the changing Chinese manufacturing situation.
We all know that Norbert gets ganged up on (by certain people) when he mentions a certain brand that he happens to sell but is he now expected to keep out of a conversation about China because he happens to sell a brand that is made there?
Using that logic then no piano retailer should comment on the decrease in American piano manufacturing situation if they happen to sell Steinway.
Apparently there is some sort of selective reasoning going on here.
I thought Norbert's post was particularly insightful (and actually fairly restrained) and shed a clear perspective on the changing global piano manufacturing scene.
And apparently I wasn't the only one.

Re: Yamaha pianos that are made in China??? [Re: Ken Woodrow] #1704339
06/29/11 01:44 PM
06/29/11 01:44 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 521
Washington, D.C.
Aliwally Offline
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Aliwally  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2007
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Washington, D.C.
The last I heard from living in Japan for over 10 years. That many parts used on Yamaha instruments are made at the same factory that makes parts for motorcycles. I know this to be true for drums,I would think for all pianos in Japan too. That is one thing Yamaha braggs about, that they don't outsource parts, all parts are made by Yamaha or it's subsidiaries (i.e., Yamaha China, Yamaha Europe) but they are the same parts. Anything coming out of Japan would have all Japanese parts made by Yamaha.


Yamaha P-120, Feurich 122

Always look ahead, but never look back. - Miles Davis
Re: Yamaha pianos that are made in China??? [Re: Sparky McBiff] #1704353
06/29/11 02:08 PM
06/29/11 02:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
torrance, CA
turandot Offline
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torrance, CA
Sparky,

I respect completely Norbert's right to post his positive opinions of what he sells and his broad perspective on the industry. I respect your right to post that I'm unfair. More to the point though, I respect Ken's right to make a clear personal choice and ask members to accept the limits of his inquiry -- without being told that he's living in denial.

Let's not make a big deal out of stuff that's outside the limits of Ken's inquiry. I'll stay out of this unless Ken has further questions.


Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier
Re: Yamaha pianos that are made in China??? [Re: turandot] #1704363
06/29/11 02:26 PM
06/29/11 02:26 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,112
Toronto, Ontario
Sparky McBiff Offline
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Well said and fair enough.
To be honest I didn't really want to say anything because overall I quite respect all your valuable posts, but at times I do feel that Norbert is sometimes singled out more than he should.
However I do realize that I am much newer around here than you (and most others) so perhaps I am unaware of some previous examples that might explain why things are the way they are at present.
Perhaps I should have just posted that I thought Norbert's post was very well put, which is what my main point should have been.
I like both you AND Norbert so I'll say no more at this point.

Re: Yamaha pianos that are made in China??? [Re: Ken Woodrow] #1704387
06/29/11 02:59 PM
06/29/11 02:59 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 393
Memphis, TN
Michael Taylor Offline
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Since Ken's question has been answered, I hope that its safe to comment on the interesting dialogue. I think that many buyers face the same dilemma as Ken. Some have chosen to give the Chinese pianos a chance. I'm glad that I did. It's my intention to buy a grand piano in a couple of years. The Chinese pianos will definitely be on my list.

There have been many positive comments from owners of chinese pianos. Have there been any recent negative comments from owners of Chinese pianos? If so, what where the issues?


Piano obsession started November 2010.
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Kayserburg U123
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Re: Yamaha pianos that are made in China??? [Re: Ken Woodrow] #1704394
06/29/11 03:08 PM
06/29/11 03:08 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,038
San Francisco Bay Area
master88er Offline
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The posts by Ken Woodrow make one thing perfectly clear to me: Here is another example of a piano buyer who doesn't play and is finding a sort of (IMHO) false comfort in branding. It is absolutely true that perceived value is part of the over-all equation in a consumer making a purchase. As Turandot points out, no manufacturer is going to completely reveal the country of origin of every outsourced component, especially if they are made at factories owned by that company, so at some level it may be prudent to trust the brand. So, for this consumer, Yamaha is probably the right choice.

Do I think that he could buy a superior product for less? Absolutely.

What is the basis of that opinion? 39 years in the piano business as a pianist, technician and dealer.

I believe that anyone who understands and is passionate about pianos would never consider buying a piano without playing it. This is NOT the case with the OP because, as the OP has already stated, he has joined a buying group in hopes of getting the absolute lowest price ever paid by anybody anywhere - sound, performance, dealer prep etc. be damned. IMHO, the OP is only looking for reinforcement from PW members for his decision, and contrary opinions are not desired or appreciated.

What does puzzle me is why the OP even asks, in a myriad of posts in other threads, for opinions on various instruments when this thread points to the "my mind is/was made up" syndrome.

Admittedly, this is frustrating for those of us who choose to sell products we believe in, and the question as to how much time we should take with consumers (often of Asian descent)who don't play and are single minded in terms of brand, or country of origin is glaring. While any dealer certainly would want to give every potential customer a thorough presentation of their products, is it truly worth the time and effort when there is not any understanding, or willingness to understand, the differences between instruments, and there is an absolute blind bias? Obviously, that is up to each dealer to decide.

So, to the OP's question "What Yamaha pianos are made 100% in Japan," the answer is probably NONE, and it doesn't make one iota difference because each Yamaha product is still a Yamaha, subject to the qualities and limitations thereof. smile


Russell I. Kassman
R.KASSMAN, Purveyor of Fine Pianos
Berkeley, CA

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SF Area Dealer: Steingraeber•Grotrian•Sauter•Estonia•Kayserburg•Baldwin•Brodmann•Ritmüller
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Re: Yamaha pianos that are made in China??? [Re: Ken Woodrow] #1704402
06/29/11 03:21 PM
06/29/11 03:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 558
Rio Grande Valley of Texas
Guapo Gabacho Offline
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I really believe that the gentleman has an aversion to products made in a communist country and is making a political stand.

Re: Yamaha pianos that are made in China??? [Re: Guapo Gabacho] #1704408
06/29/11 03:35 PM
06/29/11 03:35 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,038
San Francisco Bay Area
master88er Offline
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Originally Posted by Guapo Gabacho
I really believe that the gentleman has an aversion to products made in a communist country and is making a political stand.


If that's true, tell me the brand and country of origin of his:

  • Television
  • Every item of clothing
  • Every piece of furniture
  • Pet Supplies
  • Computer and Cell phone


But I will commend you for your post - spoken like a true Texan smirk


Russell I. Kassman
R.KASSMAN, Purveyor of Fine Pianos
Berkeley, CA

FORMER US Rep.for C.Bechstein

SF Area Dealer: Steingraeber•Grotrian•Sauter•Estonia•Kayserburg•Baldwin•Brodmann•Ritmüller
www.rkassman.com
russell@rkassman.com
510.558.0765
Re: Yamaha pianos that are made in China??? [Re: master88er] #1704419
06/29/11 03:46 PM
06/29/11 03:46 PM
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Rio Grande Valley of Texas
Guapo Gabacho Offline
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I may live in Texas, but I am no Texan.

I was guessing the gentleman's intention, not soapboxing, sir.

Last edited by Guapo Gabacho; 06/29/11 03:46 PM.
Re: Yamaha pianos that are made in China??? [Re: Ken Woodrow] #1704421
06/29/11 03:49 PM
06/29/11 03:49 PM
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Posts: 15,432
Surrey, B.C.
Norbert Offline
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If people insist to buy 100% Japanese or also German made products, it is completely within their rights.

Because this is obviously important to some buyers and also as much of the industry has become less transparent today, it could be thought to be of advantage to both manufacturer and buyer to have a written guarantee of sorts guaranteeing that ALL parts of a given product are manufactured in stated country of origin.

This would be one simple step to bring back trust and transparency for buyers. It also would be one step to help product sales. After all the company is representing an image upon which consumers base their decisions - why not underline it?

It really shouldn't be for consumers to sort things out - why should it?

Norbert

Last edited by Norbert; 06/29/11 04:00 PM.

www.heritagepianos.com
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Re: Yamaha pianos that are made in China??? [Re: Norbert] #1704425
06/29/11 03:57 PM
06/29/11 03:57 PM
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San Francisco Bay Area
master88er Offline
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Originally Posted by Norbert

Because this is obviously important to some buyers and also as much of the industry has become less transparent today, it could be thought to be of advantage to both manufacturer and buyer to have a written guarantee of sorts guaranteeing that ALL parts of a given product are manufactured in the country of origin.

This would be one simple step to bring back trust and transparency for sometimes confused buyers.

Why should consumers sort things out when this is really the responsibility of the industry?

Were I the owner of the company I would think being in an even better position to sell my product.

Missing something?

Norbert



LOL


Okay Norbert, what did you bring back from Germany that you are drinking or smoking, and did you bring enough for everyone? grin


Russell I. Kassman
R.KASSMAN, Purveyor of Fine Pianos
Berkeley, CA

FORMER US Rep.for C.Bechstein

SF Area Dealer: Steingraeber•Grotrian•Sauter•Estonia•Kayserburg•Baldwin•Brodmann•Ritmüller
www.rkassman.com
russell@rkassman.com
510.558.0765
Re: Yamaha pianos that are made in China??? [Re: master88er] #1704431
06/29/11 04:05 PM
06/29/11 04:05 PM
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Posts: 1,104
west coast island, canada
Dara Offline
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Originally Posted by master88er
Okay Norbert, what did you bring back from Germany that you are drinking or smoking, and did you bring enough for everyone? grin


Don't you remember Norbert saying yesterday - Luckily we are still living in a funnier part of the world

Re: Yamaha pianos that are made in China??? [Re: Ken Woodrow] #1704432
06/29/11 04:06 PM
06/29/11 04:06 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,432
Surrey, B.C.
Norbert Offline
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Quote

Okay Norbert, what did you bring back from Germany that you are drinking or smoking, and did you bring enough for everyone? grin


Yes I did, but perhaps not 'for everyone'.

100% German made pianos.

Norbert grin

Last edited by Norbert; 06/29/11 04:07 PM.

www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642
Re: Yamaha pianos that are made in China??? [Re: Norbert] #1704442
06/29/11 04:23 PM
06/29/11 04:23 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,038
San Francisco Bay Area
master88er Offline
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Originally Posted by Norbert
Quote

Okay Norbert, what did you bring back from Germany that you are drinking or smoking, and did you bring enough for everyone? grin


Yes I did, but perhaps not 'for everyone'.

100% German made pianos.

Norbert grin


Are you drinking or smoking them? help


Russell I. Kassman
R.KASSMAN, Purveyor of Fine Pianos
Berkeley, CA

FORMER US Rep.for C.Bechstein

SF Area Dealer: Steingraeber•Grotrian•Sauter•Estonia•Kayserburg•Baldwin•Brodmann•Ritmüller
www.rkassman.com
russell@rkassman.com
510.558.0765
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