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Yamaha pianos that are made in China??? #1703603
06/28/11 12:19 PM
06/28/11 12:19 PM
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Ken Woodrow Offline OP
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I have been still looking and just got invited to particpate with a group buy on Yamaha U-1 and U-3. New of course. In the quest for information I have been told that Yamaha has pianos made in China and or a large percentage of Chinese component parts.

I have decided that I will not buy a chinese made piano, just because I have shopped for used pianos on Craigslist and all the Chinese made advertised used pianos sounded terrible, worse than terrible, (although the used prices were very good) This experience coupled with advice from various technicians have convinced me that I do not want a Chinese piano. Please do not try and convince me otherwise, this is a firm decision on my part.

The price for these Yamaha pianos that are not Japanese is very low, this makes me a little suspicious.

Does the manufacturer have to reveal the percentage of where the product is made?

If there is a Yamaha Expert out there will You please reveal what pianos of Yamaha are made in China?


In the market and looking for the best for the least...like everybody!
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Re: Yamaha pianos that are made in China??? [Re: Ken Woodrow] #1703627
06/28/11 12:50 PM
06/28/11 12:50 PM
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Toronto, Ontario
Sparky McBiff Offline
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Deciding against "Chinese" pianos simply because the used ones you found and tried through the classifieds is NOT how you determine the value of brands.
Yes I know your mind is made up (and I couldn't care less) but when I was piano shopping EVERY single NEW Chinese piano I tried sounded better than many used Japanese or European piano I tried. (I also tried a few real crappy used Chinese ones).
But I certainly did not let that convince me that Japanese or European pianos were no good. Just the one's I tried of course.
The only used European or Japanese pianos that I liked better than a few of the good Chinese ones were also multiple times the cost of the Chinese and way out of my budget.
Some Chinese brands have only become much better quality within the last few years or so so it would be rare that you would see any of these on the used market just yet to be honest. (Myself, I've only seen the crappier used Chinese brands for sale used during my search, none of the better ones).
And with regards to "advice" for several techs, don't forget that when Japanese pianos first came on the scene all the "techs" were saying to keep away from them too simply because they were not familiar with them and the Japanese had a reputation of only putting out lower quality copycat products.
This is the position that some better quality Chinese manufacturers are in today.
In fact my own tech advised me against buying anything Chinese when I was shopping but after getting my Hailun 198 (a brand with which he was not familiar with then) he has since come around and has commented positively on the quality and build of it.
But please don't let that deter you from your obvious "anti-Chinese anything at any cost" quest.

Last edited by Sparky McBiff; 06/28/11 12:59 PM.
Re: Yamaha pianos that are made in China??? [Re: Ken Woodrow] #1703635
06/28/11 01:15 PM
06/28/11 01:15 PM
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Steve Cohen Offline
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See the Yamaha profile in Piano Buyer at http://www.pianobuyer.com/spring11/196.html.

It has the latest information and should answer your questions.


Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.
Re: Yamaha pianos that are made in China??? [Re: Ken Woodrow] #1703639
06/28/11 01:28 PM
06/28/11 01:28 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,601
Atlanta, GA
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Yamaha prefers to talk about Company of Origin over Country of Origin. Yamaha and some other companies are very close to the vest about what and where, sub-assembly construction vs. final assembly to determine Country of Origin. This is partly because of what Made in Japan has come to mean, partly because of pricing, and partly because of trade agreements for companies that manufacture in China.

If you are not comfortable purchasing a Chinese made piano, that is your right, but understand that they are not all the same. I have no doubt that your consulting techs would be as surprised as I was in learning where some of the better made Chinese components end up. I don't know what prep your dealer offers as part of that rock-bottom, group buy price, but we know that many Yamaha dealers have come to rely on the factory prep when price is the ultimate concern.

If you are looking at Craigslist for pianos, you should temper your expectations. Craigslist is an online flea market with more low-level bargains (and scams) than gems.

You can be suspicious of your group buy price and take what they give you or you can go and select and inspect the one that actually comes to your home. I don't know if it will be China-free or not, but it would be a rare exception if Yamaha didn't deliver a familiar and solid U1.

As a matter of recent history, before the Thomaston, GA factory closed (where the P-series and M-series Yamaha pianos were made), there was a short period where sub-assemblies were arriving from elsewhere for partial construction and final assembly to be Made in U.S.A.


Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
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www.PianoWorks.com
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Re: Yamaha pianos that are made in China??? [Re: Ken Woodrow] #1703670
06/28/11 03:05 PM
06/28/11 03:05 PM
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Bay Area
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Ken Woodrow Offline OP
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Sparky You are exactly right about the Japanese stuff having a poor reputation for quality in their early history in the US. , then they improved and improved to having an incredible reputation for quality, the chinese are going through these same evolutionary processes.

You have a hailun piano made in China, but how long have you had it, and how will it age, are questions that remain unanswered. Only time will tell. The Chinese need the time, the Japanese, the Germans, and the Americans have had the time. They have proven themselves, the jury on the Chinese is still out.

Thank you Mr Cohen, I will look into this information, this is the kind of answer I had hoped for with the Piano World.


In the market and looking for the best for the least...like everybody!
Re: Yamaha pianos that are made in China??? [Re: Ken Woodrow] #1703770
06/28/11 06:12 PM
06/28/11 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Woodrow


You have a hailun piano made in China, but how long have you had it, and how will it age, are questions that remain unanswered. Only time will tell. The Chinese need the time, the Japanese, the Germans, and the Americans have had the time. They have proven themselves, the jury on the Chinese is still out.


My alma mater has a few Chinese grand pianos along with the usual choices from the US and Japan. One of the grands in the school's inventory was sent back to its manufacturer this month, and it wasn't a Chinese piano. Just sayin'.

Re: Yamaha pianos that are made in China??? [Re: Ken Woodrow] #1703773
06/28/11 06:23 PM
06/28/11 06:23 PM
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What is a group buy? It sounds like a program where you buy a piano, sight (or ear) unseen (or unheard), as one of a bunch of people all of whom are doing the same thing in an effort to attain economies of scale of some kind.

If I am correct about what it is, it sounds scary to me. Are you stuck with whatever piano is delivered? What if you hate it? What if it has been bashed? Who will stand behind it if there is a problem? Is there a reputable dealer involved?

It seems to me that the questions you need to ask go well beyond your initial concerns about Chinese-made pianos. Again, assuming I am correct about what a group buy is.


Last edited by Rank Piano Amateur; 06/28/11 06:23 PM.
Re: Yamaha pianos that are made in China??? [Re: Rank Piano Amateur] #1703788
06/28/11 06:45 PM
06/28/11 06:45 PM
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Posts: 3,601
Atlanta, GA
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Originally Posted by Rank Piano Amateur
What is a group buy? It sounds like a program where you buy a piano, sight (or ear) unseen (or unheard), as one of a bunch of people all of whom are doing the same thing in an effort to attain economies of scale of some kind.
Basically, yes.

I'm not sure, but I think it's kind of a recent phenomenon, and more commonly organized in areas with strong Asian communities. They must be singularly focused on a brand and usually just one model. If they are so organized, they wait until they get orders in enough quantity enough to justify a volume and shipping discount. The largest groups will partially (or fully) complete a shipping container full. Some dealers encourage this, some do not.


Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
www.PianoWorks.com
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Re: Yamaha pianos that are made in China??? [Re: Ken Woodrow] #1703829
06/28/11 08:05 PM
06/28/11 08:05 PM
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Norbert Offline
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Just back from Europe, I have played some of the best Chinese made pianos against some of Germany's best - often in same locations.

All I can tell you that we better start banning Chinese pianos in America altogether.

Unless you want to get the same jitters some of the Germans are increasingly getting.

One dealer in Erlangen near Nuremberg was royally pissed having lost the competition for the new university recital piano to Brodmann.

Nobody over there was laughing or making jokes.

Luckily we are still living in a funnier part of the world...

Norbert

Last edited by Norbert; 06/28/11 08:14 PM.

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Re: Yamaha pianos that are made in China??? [Re: Norbert] #1703842
06/28/11 08:29 PM
06/28/11 08:29 PM
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west coast island, canada
Dara Offline
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Originally Posted by Norbert
Luckily we are still living in a funnier part of the world.

I find that quite funny.
laugh

Re: Yamaha pianos that are made in China??? [Re: Norbert] #1703957
06/28/11 11:32 PM
06/28/11 11:32 PM
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Washington, D.C.
Aliwally Offline
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Originally Posted by Norbert
Just back from Europe, I have played some of the best Chinese made pianos against some of Germany's best - often in same locations.

All I can tell you that we better start banning Chinese pianos in America altogether.

Unless you want to get the same jitters some of the Germans are increasingly getting.

One dealer in Erlangen near Nuremberg was royally pissed having lost the competition for the new university recital piano to Brodmann.

Nobody over there was laughing or making jokes.

Luckily we are still living in a funnier part of the world...

Norbert



I remember a post last year on a PW member's visit to Germany. He was surprised to find out that a lot of German's have Chinese made pianos in their homes.


Yamaha P-120, Feurich 122

Always look ahead, but never look back. - Miles Davis
Re: Yamaha pianos that are made in China??? [Re: Ken Woodrow] #1704090
06/29/11 07:30 AM
06/29/11 07:30 AM
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I think that one of the real challenges faced by piano dealers these days must be selling their high-end European pianos, which are clearly fabulous, while at the same time carrying Chinese-made pianos and selling them as well. I am not surprised that a dealer who sells Chinese pianos feels strongly that Chinese-made pianos can be wonderful. Indeed, I am absolutely certain that some of them are, and that the dealers who make such claims are being honest. I also see no reason to subject Chinese-made pianos to tests that no other nation's pianos have to undergo, simply because they were made in China. I understand the idea of the test of time, but at this point pianos made in China have improved enough, and have been around long enough, so that they can make some claim to have passed the test. Moreover, many reliable dealers sell them, and they enthusiastically stand behind what they sell.

All this is a perhaps regrettably long-winded way of saying that Norbert's post should not come as a surprise to anyone.

I want to add here that I have tried Chinese-made pianos at various dealerships. They can and often do sound terrific, especially with the extensive work that the best dealers give them. Given that in my view the more people who study music the better, it is important for us all that there are good pianos at a price point that allows many more people to enjoy piano ownership than might otherwise be the case. Housing and cars exist at different price points, why not pianos? We should not turn our noses up at one car just because it cost less than another. The reality is that American-made pianos cost more than pianos made in China. I am fortunate to be able to afford an American-made piano. Not everyone is as lucky as I am. If I were not so lucky, I would look for the best piano for me that I could afford, and would not be guided by country of origin.

My very long-winded less-than-two cents.

Re: Yamaha pianos that are made in China??? [Re: Aliwally] #1704092
06/29/11 07:32 AM
06/29/11 07:32 AM
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gnuboi Offline
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Originally Posted by Aliwally

I remember a post last year on a PW member's visit to Germany. He was surprised to find out that a lot of German's have Chinese made pianos in their homes.


Pianos there also seem to cost 2x that compared to the US!

Re: Yamaha pianos that are made in China??? [Re: Ken Woodrow] #1704226
06/29/11 10:53 AM
06/29/11 10:53 AM
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Surrey, B.C.
Norbert Offline
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One thing I noticed in Germany is that several manufacturers there are sharply increasing their current sales volumes through sales to China. Simply speaking, China is the place to be.

In return, the Chinese are entering collaborative agreements with German manufacturers such as Pearl River and Steingraeber. [Un]fortunately the 'Kayserburg' pianos being finished by Steingraeber are not [yet] available in North America but this may change sometimes soon. [better watch out...]

In my own home town and old Alma Mata near Frankfurt I found a Brodmann grand in one of the university recital rooms that was set up to give you the fear of God. It was especially impressive as I had just visited a national Steinway dealer the day before.

German dealers realize that the market for their high priced pianos is somewhat dwindling and virtually all have Chinese makes at their stores. Being used to offer high quality, these pianos are often formidably set up and definitely impress by their quality and sound.

In my opinion we do not do ourselves a favour to remain in denial of what's happening out there. It won't make our own pianos any better nor more sellable. If you care to know, nobody in Germany would be interested to take an American made piano in trade today.

It also won't prolong the life of those who increasingly seem to rely on name recognition only. Reality is rapidly replacing perception and outside few top brands, consumers are taking note of this virtually everywhere.

Care to know how many German brand products in German stores now show "made in China"? Better look closely next time you buy your Kuckuck clock....

The Germans[including certain other Euros such as Bosendorfer, Fazioli, Estonia...] have long realized you can only guard yourself at the very top of things. The Germans at least, are selling parts, machinery and high end products worth billions to China adding to their own economic boom.

If you can't compete in picking rice, sell'em machinery, technology, whole plants if necessary. If and to which extent the Chinese will be able to pick up the bat and run,remains to be seen. Nobody however, is taking things lightly or underestimate possibilities.

If we have nothing to throw against this development, we can simply 'pay the price', continue to lament & complain, be in denial or keep buying 30 year old Japanese pianos.

Those who have accused me for 'hyping' things can continue to do so. Others have long made same observations and picked up the 'early warning' signals themselves. It's nice to know not to be alone.

In the meantime the world moves on offering both: *threat* and - *opportunity*.

You choose.

Norbert

Last edited by Norbert; 06/29/11 11:50 AM.

www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642
Re: Yamaha pianos that are made in China??? [Re: Norbert] #1704242
06/29/11 11:17 AM
06/29/11 11:17 AM
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Quote
In my opinion we do not do ourselves a favour to keep remaining in denial of what's happening out there. It won't make our own pianos any better, more selleable nor will it prolong the life of those who increasingly seem to rely on name recognition only.


Norbert, you've said similar things countless times, but I must say, this is a great comment and among the most concise to the general message.

There is only one M&H dealer remaining in the southern half of California frown.

Re: Yamaha pianos that are made in China??? [Re: Ken Woodrow] #1704246
06/29/11 11:21 AM
06/29/11 11:21 AM
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Surrey, B.C.
Norbert Offline
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Dear all:

Mine is not wishful thinking nor is it because I am selling certain Chinese product.

The fact is we are turning on an economioc axis worldwide.

The challenges lying ahead are formidable.

Norbert


www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642
Re: Yamaha pianos that are made in China??? [Re: Norbert] #1704286
06/29/11 12:06 PM
06/29/11 12:06 PM
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As to complement Norbert, please read following recent article (it's written in German but you can use an online translator if necessary):

Ohne China geht es nicht

schwammerl.

Re: Yamaha pianos that are made in China??? [Re: Ken Woodrow] #1704299
06/29/11 12:37 PM
06/29/11 12:37 PM
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Urbandale, Iowa
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Steve Chandler Offline
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This thread started because the OP is participating in a group buy of a Yamaha U-1 or U-3. Having observed that used Chinese pianos available in his area were crap he extended his logic to conclude that all Chinese pianos are not worth his hard earned money. This ignores two important points:
1. It's more likely the used pianos were being sold because they were crap and the good Chinese instruments were kept and maintained by their owners.
2. Yamaha has a hard earned reputation for quality, don't think for a moment they'll relax their standards just because some components are made in China. The U-1 and U-3 are among the better Yamaha uprights and the quality of these instruments reflects directly on Yamaha.

The whole won't buy Chinese things sounds a bit xenophobic to me. We're all gaijin.

Re: Yamaha pianos that are made in China??? [Re: Ken Woodrow] #1704301
06/29/11 12:42 PM
06/29/11 12:42 PM
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torrance, CA
turandot Offline
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Originally Posted by Ken Woodrow
I do not want a Chinese piano. Please do not try and convince me otherwise, this is a firm decision on my part.


Fair warning, and as Sam wrote, you care certainly within your right. Only problem is you couldn't forestall a certain itinerant retailer's personal Ode To Joy to Chinese product. grin

T series and Cable Nelson sub-line as clearly from Yamaha China. P series, GB1. and pianos branded Kemble these days are clearly from Yamaha Indonesia. C series artist grands and U and YUS artist verticals are from Japan although, pertinent to your quetion, there is no disclosure of foreign parts, sub-assmeblies. or percentage of foreign content that may be present in some or all Japan-made models. The stripped down GC versions of C grands? I'm not sure. They're ostensibly made in Japan, but similar to Sam's Thomaston example, the degree of 'madeness is' unknown.

I don't think Yamaha is any different from other manufacturers in its disclosure of parts origin. Generally when a manufacturer buys or brings parts or whole sub-assemblies from a country with lower labor cost and/or less of a piano-building tradition than its own, they don't talk about it. However, when a Chinese maker brings or buys parts from any country with higher labor costs and/or a stronger piano-building tradition, they shout it from the rooftops in their promotion, even if it's just a few spools of Roslau wire. When Korea took most of its manufacture to Indonesia, they didn't take out full-page ads in the New York Times to make sure that everyone knew.

Steve's PianoBuyer tip is a good one. Larry Fine's Yamaha report is thorough and balanced. No mention of living in denial either. thumb grin


Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier
Re: Yamaha pianos that are made in China??? [Re: Ken Woodrow] #1704306
06/29/11 12:52 PM
06/29/11 12:52 PM
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Washington, D.C.
Aliwally Offline
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Well just don't put all your eggs in one basket, I think most companies know this. This is from an article by David Cameron:

Look at where the big ideas come from – the Facebooks and the Spotifys – and the vast majority are from open societies,’ the PM told businessmen, economists and world leaders gathered at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland.
‘That’s because good ideas come through freedom – free thinking and the free association of like-minded people. Our values create the right climate for business, too.
‘If you’re looking to set up a headquarters abroad, are you going to invest where your premises can be taken away from you? Where contracts are routinely dishonoured? Where there’s the threat of political upheaval? Or are you going to invest where there are property rights, the rule of law, democratic accountability? These values aren’t some quaint constitutional add-on, they are an integral and irreducible part of our success today and tomorrow.’


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...esses-investing-China.html#ixzz1QgkHHab7

Don't show them all your secrets too.....


Yamaha P-120, Feurich 122

Always look ahead, but never look back. - Miles Davis
Re: Yamaha pianos that are made in China??? [Re: Ken Woodrow] #1704308
06/29/11 12:52 PM
06/29/11 12:52 PM
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Bay Area
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Ken Woodrow Offline OP
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Thank you for responding but you have missed the point.

If I wanted a chinese piano I would buy one, I disagree with all that are trying to convince me to try and change my mind.

I would like to say that If I want to pay for a Japanese piano I just want to be sure I am getting a Japanese piano, If I wanted a Chinese piano I do not want to pay a German price.

The original question was, What Yamaha pianos are made 100% in Japan and which are made in China? If there is a percentage then include that information. If you do not know the answers to the Yamaha question, do not respond with other sales schtick about the quality of the chinese pianos or german pianos you sell or wish to promote.

The other part of the question was about group buys and whether Yamaha only sells the pianos that have chinese components or assembly, because the benefit to the group purchase is obviously just about the low price.

PS: My wife is from China and will not buy a chinese piano, and furthmore, do not tell her China is not the best country in the world, been there done that.

Thank you.


In the market and looking for the best for the least...like everybody!
Re: Yamaha pianos that are made in China??? [Re: Ken Woodrow] #1704309
06/29/11 12:56 PM
06/29/11 12:56 PM
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Bay Area
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Ken Woodrow Offline OP
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Oops.... wrote, before I read Turandot.

Turandot...I have the utmost respect for, He knows what He/She is talking about and seems to stay on point.

Thank you!

Last edited by Ken Woodrow; 06/29/11 01:01 PM.

In the market and looking for the best for the least...like everybody!
Re: Yamaha pianos that are made in China??? [Re: Ken Woodrow] #1704316
06/29/11 01:01 PM
06/29/11 01:01 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
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L
Lingyis Offline
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Lingyis  Offline
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Posts: 832
Originally Posted by Ken Woodrow
Thank you for responding but you have missed the point.

If I wanted a chinese piano I would buy one, I disagree with all that are trying to convince me to try and change my mind.

I would like to say that If I want to pay for a Japanese piano I just want to be sure I am getting a Japanese piano, If I wanted a Chinese piano I do not want to pay a German price.

The original question was, What Yamaha pianos are made 100% in Japan and which are made in China? If there is a percentage then include that information. If you do not know the answers to the Yamaha question, do not respond with other sales schtick about the quality of the chinese pianos or german pianos you sell or wish to promote.

The other part of the question was about group buys and whether Yamaha only sells the pianos that have chinese components or assembly, because the benefit to the group purchase is obviously just about the low price.

PS: My wife is from China and will not buy a chinese piano, and furthmore, do not tell her China is not the best country in the world, been there done that.

Thank you.


I grew up in Macao and even back then apparently the vast majority of Yamaha pianos are Vietnamese made.

I went back there for a trip last year and an experienced piano tech told me that the Yamaha very rarely export pianos made in Japan. Indeed, he said that second-hand Yamahas made in Japan sell at a substantial premium.

If I remember him correctly, you can indeed tell where a Yamaha is made by its serial number, which is how he identified the one in Macau as made in Vietnam.

I suppose many Yamahas are now made in China.

So in short, yes you can tell by serial numbers which ones are made where, but if you're buying new Yamahas it's exceedingly unlikely they're made in Japan.

Last edited by Lingyis; 06/29/11 01:02 PM.
Re: Yamaha pianos that are made in China??? [Re: Ken Woodrow] #1704317
06/29/11 01:02 PM
06/29/11 01:02 PM
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Posts: 558
Rio Grande Valley of Texas
Guapo Gabacho Offline
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Guapo Gabacho  Offline
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Rio Grande Valley of Texas
Does this answer your question?

The uprights are the very popular 48" model U1; the 48" model T121 in a less-expensive cabinet (otherwise the same as the U1); the new 48" model T121SC, made in China, with a slow-close fallboard; and the 52" model U3. Model U3 joins model U5 (now available only as a Super U model — see below) in the use of a "floating" soundboard — the soundboard is not completely attached to the back at the top, allowing it to vibrate a little more freely to enhance tonal performance. A new Super U series of uprights (YUS1, YUS3, and YUS5) have different hammers and get additional tuning and voicing at the factory, including voicing by machine to create a more consistent, more mellow tone. Model YUS5 uses German Röslau music wire instead of Yamaha wire, also for a mellower tone. This top-of-the-line 52" upright also has agraffes, duplex scaling, and a sostenuto pedal (all other Yamaha verticals have a practice/mute pedal). Except for the model T121SC, made in China, the uprights are all made in Japan.
SOURCE: http://www.pianobuyer.com/spring11/197.html

Re: Yamaha pianos that are made in China??? [Re: Ken Woodrow] #1704318
06/29/11 01:04 PM
06/29/11 01:04 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 521
Washington, D.C.
Aliwally Offline
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Aliwally  Offline
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Washington, D.C.
Originally Posted by Ken Woodrow
Thank you for responding but you have missed the point.

If I wanted a chinese piano I would buy one, I disagree with all that are trying to convince me to try and change my mind.

I would like to say that If I want to pay for a Japanese piano I just want to be sure I am getting a Japanese piano, If I wanted a Chinese piano I do not want to pay a German price.

The original question was, What Yamaha pianos are made 100% in Japan and which are made in China? If there is a percentage then include that information. If you do not know the answers to the Yamaha question, do not respond with other sales schtick about the quality of the chinese pianos or german pianos you sell or wish to promote.

The other part of the question was about group buys and whether Yamaha only sells the pianos that have chinese components or assembly, because the benefit to the group purchase is obviously just about the low price.

PS: My wife is from China and will not buy a chinese piano, and furthmore, do not tell her China is not the best country in the world, been there done that.

Thank you.



Welcome to Piano World.


Yamaha P-120, Feurich 122

Always look ahead, but never look back. - Miles Davis
Re: Yamaha pianos that are made in China??? [Re: Ken Woodrow] #1704336
06/29/11 01:36 PM
06/29/11 01:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
torrance, CA
turandot Offline
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turandot  Offline
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torrance, CA
Thanks. I'll try to stay on point

Quote
The other part of the question was about group buys and whether Yamaha only sells the pianos that have chinese components or assembly, because the benefit to the group purchase is obviously just about the low price.


If I understand this correctly, you have a concern that Yamaha would slip through pianos with a higher foreign parts content to group buyers than the pianos stocked and sold individually at higher margin.

I know that's not the case in SoCal, and I really doubt it's the case in the Bar area. Yamaha is not going to promote group sales openly or even acknowledge them because of a need to maintain good relationships with all its dealers. However, it is preposterous to assume that they are unaware of group sales, and taking advantage of price-conscious shoppers by shipping them a lower standard of piano than they would find in the showroom would not be the Yamaha way.

In terms of Japanese purity in all parts, I think it's probably unrealistic at this point except at their highest-pricced lines. Certainly Yamaha would not buy from other manufacturers to lower costs. Their global structure makes this unnecessary. But with their very own factories in Indonesia and China, I would assume that they would do a little mixing and matching of parts because ultimately they would be standing behind those parts the same as they would stand behind anything they manufacture in Japan.

The further you go up the price ladder with Yamaha series, the smaller the percentage of such mixing and matching is likely to be. I think you're on safe ground with a U1 or U3, not that it's likely to be 100% pure, but that it will be pure enough that you needn't be concerned.


Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier
Re: Yamaha pianos that are made in China??? [Re: turandot] #1704338
06/29/11 01:43 PM
06/29/11 01:43 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,112
Toronto, Ontario
Sparky McBiff Offline
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Toronto, Ontario
Originally Posted by turandot
...Only problem is you couldn't forestall a certain itinerant retailer's personal Ode To Joy to Chinese product. grin


I think that is somewhat unfair.
I find it hard to believe that any other retailer that happens to also sell a Chinese brand (and almost all of them do) would be similarly singled out if he happened to comment on the changing Chinese manufacturing situation.
We all know that Norbert gets ganged up on (by certain people) when he mentions a certain brand that he happens to sell but is he now expected to keep out of a conversation about China because he happens to sell a brand that is made there?
Using that logic then no piano retailer should comment on the decrease in American piano manufacturing situation if they happen to sell Steinway.
Apparently there is some sort of selective reasoning going on here.
I thought Norbert's post was particularly insightful (and actually fairly restrained) and shed a clear perspective on the changing global piano manufacturing scene.
And apparently I wasn't the only one.

Re: Yamaha pianos that are made in China??? [Re: Ken Woodrow] #1704339
06/29/11 01:44 PM
06/29/11 01:44 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 521
Washington, D.C.
Aliwally Offline
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Aliwally  Offline
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Washington, D.C.
The last I heard from living in Japan for over 10 years. That many parts used on Yamaha instruments are made at the same factory that makes parts for motorcycles. I know this to be true for drums,I would think for all pianos in Japan too. That is one thing Yamaha braggs about, that they don't outsource parts, all parts are made by Yamaha or it's subsidiaries (i.e., Yamaha China, Yamaha Europe) but they are the same parts. Anything coming out of Japan would have all Japanese parts made by Yamaha.


Yamaha P-120, Feurich 122

Always look ahead, but never look back. - Miles Davis
Re: Yamaha pianos that are made in China??? [Re: Sparky McBiff] #1704353
06/29/11 02:08 PM
06/29/11 02:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
torrance, CA
turandot Offline
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turandot  Offline
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torrance, CA
Sparky,

I respect completely Norbert's right to post his positive opinions of what he sells and his broad perspective on the industry. I respect your right to post that I'm unfair. More to the point though, I respect Ken's right to make a clear personal choice and ask members to accept the limits of his inquiry -- without being told that he's living in denial.

Let's not make a big deal out of stuff that's outside the limits of Ken's inquiry. I'll stay out of this unless Ken has further questions.


Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier
Re: Yamaha pianos that are made in China??? [Re: turandot] #1704363
06/29/11 02:26 PM
06/29/11 02:26 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,112
Toronto, Ontario
Sparky McBiff Offline
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Sparky McBiff  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2010
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Toronto, Ontario
Well said and fair enough.
To be honest I didn't really want to say anything because overall I quite respect all your valuable posts, but at times I do feel that Norbert is sometimes singled out more than he should.
However I do realize that I am much newer around here than you (and most others) so perhaps I am unaware of some previous examples that might explain why things are the way they are at present.
Perhaps I should have just posted that I thought Norbert's post was very well put, which is what my main point should have been.
I like both you AND Norbert so I'll say no more at this point.

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