Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
What's Hot!!
New in our online store...
Hand Crafted Key Holder
Made From Real Piano Keys
By our resident crafter Kathy, right here at Piano World headquarters in Maine.

Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2018
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


Who's Online Now
58 registered members (Bach_ingMaddie, Alex_, aeroseb, augustm, amad23, ando, 13 invisible), 545 guests, and 4 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
New take on the idea of 'An Amateur Pianist'... #1703857
06/28/11 10:11 PM
06/28/11 10:11 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 743
Banned
S
Saul Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
Saul  Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 743
Banned
I was reading in Larry Todd's Bio of Mendelssohn that his family watched him when he took the post as the music director, and saw his transformation from an 'amateur' to a 'professional'...

After reading that I was thinking to myself that, Mendelssohn was an astonishing piano virtuosi even before that, so how can his family consider him an 'amateur' until he took an official music post or job, and only from then on considered him a professional?

Does making money or holding a music related job really describe the level of your music competence?

I really don’t think so.

Or I guess that back then people had different standards to what it means to be an amateur and what it means to be a professional...

(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Re: New take on the idea of 'An Amateur Pianist'... [Re: Saul] #1703860
06/28/11 10:17 PM
06/28/11 10:17 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 368
Banned
BadOrange Offline
Full Member
BadOrange  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 368
Banned
nope.

many greats had to teach despite their accomplishments not yet recognized. The concept of amateur and professional is blurry.

And lots of pros in the music industry are horrible musicians and just lucked out in the position they are in.

There is somewhat a relation but not much. Even in the classical world, the politics are stifling. Being great is never enough. You have to be great, have a network of connections and horse shoe up your ...

for me amateur is more an approach. Amateurs are quite happy doing it only as a hobby and have no aspirations to dealing with the BS in the music industry. Nothing wrong with that.

YOu have to be insane to want to do music as a profession. It does not make rational sense. I do it but again, i would not be a good person to demonstrate what is normal. Why put yourself thru all the turmoil unless you didn't have a few screws loose. It is so competitive, you won't start making money until your 40s and there is just so much time invested that what if you just died tomorrow and you wonder , wow all that time i spent.

Now for me, i'm fine with that as i don't really think i'm suited for anything else. This industry is the only one that seems to tolerate my eccentricities. I think i've been fired from every real job i've ever had. Not that I was a bad employee, I just never fit in and had a hard time with the politics of work getting along with everyone.

Last edited by BadOrange; 06/28/11 10:22 PM.
Re: New take on the idea of 'An Amateur Pianist'... [Re: Saul] #1703862
06/28/11 10:22 PM
06/28/11 10:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 9,868
pianojerome Offline
9000 Post Club Member
pianojerome  Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 9,868
It's an interesting question.

Google's dictionary has two different definitions of "amateur":

1. A person who engages in a pursuit... on an unpaid basis
2. A person considered contemptibly inept at a particular activity

or, as an adjective:

1. Engaging, or engaged in, without payment.
2. Inept or unskillful


You seem to interpret "amateur" in the second way (and "professional" as the opposite, i.e. "skilled"). On the other hand, perhaps Todd was referring to "amateur" and "professional" not in the sense of measuring Mendelssohn's skill, but rather simply describing the changing role of music in his life. That changing role of music in one's life is certainly fascinating and important, particularly as it concerns a great virtuoso and composer like Mendelssohn.

Last edited by pianojerome; 06/28/11 10:26 PM.

Sam
Re: New take on the idea of 'An Amateur Pianist'... [Re: Saul] #1703863
06/28/11 10:23 PM
06/28/11 10:23 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 368
Banned
BadOrange Offline
Full Member
BadOrange  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 368
Banned
it isn't so easy with art.

Schubert was pretty much a vagrant his entire life. But he was a professional. Money does not necessarily mean you are not a professional. Just in between jobs I guess lol.

(ad ) MusicNotes.com
sheet music search
Re: New take on the idea of 'An Amateur Pianist'... [Re: BadOrange] #1703866
06/28/11 10:26 PM
06/28/11 10:26 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 743
Banned
S
Saul Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
Saul  Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 743
Banned
You said :"And lots of pros in the music industry are horrible musicians and just lucked out in the position they are in".

Are you talking about the classical music industry or the general music industry? If the general, I believe that yes, non talents like Justine Bieber and Pink and Beyonce and the rest of the Hoopla, have no talent and just got in the spotlight because of all the wrong reasons, but how about the classical music world, where people actually dedicate themselves for years to achieve some kind of competence and later on success if it may come...but perhaps one could also say that there are many composers today who are not really great composers and they because of been in the right time and in the right place with the right connections, achieved much recognition, money and fame, then even more talented composers who still are relatively unknown...

Last edited by Saul; 06/28/11 10:32 PM.
Re: New take on the idea of 'An Amateur Pianist'... [Re: Saul] #1703867
06/28/11 10:28 PM
06/28/11 10:28 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 550
Dystopia (but not Dystonia!)
C
chercherchopin Offline
500 Post Club Member
chercherchopin  Offline
500 Post Club Member
C
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 550
Dystopia (but not Dystonia!)
Originally Posted by Saul
Does making money or holding a music related job really describe the level of your music competence?

No, but it describes the distinction between 'amateur' and 'professional'.

Quote
Or I guess that back then people had different standards to what it means to be an amateur and what it means to be a professional...

I think the definition was the same then as now. Professionals make money from music, and amateurs don't. To me, the labels only concern income and don't necessarily imply anything about competence ... even though a professional is more likely to have had more training and perform at a higher level.


Offensive tag line deleted by moderators.
Re: New take on the idea of 'An Amateur Pianist'... [Re: chercherchopin] #1703870
06/28/11 10:32 PM
06/28/11 10:32 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 743
Banned
S
Saul Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
Saul  Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 743
Banned
Originally Posted by chercherchopin
Originally Posted by Saul
Does making money or holding a music related job really describe the level of your music competence?

No, but it describes the distinction between 'amateur' and 'professional'.

Quote
Or I guess that back then people had different standards to what it means to be an amateur and what it means to be a professional...

I think the definition was the same then as now. Professionals make money from music, and amateurs don't. To me, the labels only concern income and don't necessarily imply anything about competence ... even though a professional is more likely to have had more training and perform at a higher level.


So let's say that the non entity and non talent as Justine Biber makes huge bucks, and Mendelssohn never held a job or made a dime with his music, would you consider Mendelssohn an Amateur and Bieber a Professional? lol, something is not right there...

Last edited by Saul; 06/28/11 10:33 PM.
Re: New take on the idea of 'An Amateur Pianist'... [Re: Saul] #1703877
06/28/11 10:39 PM
06/28/11 10:39 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 368
Banned
BadOrange Offline
Full Member
BadOrange  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 368
Banned
Originally Posted by Saul
You said :"And lots of pros in the music industry are horrible musicians and just lucked out in the position they are in".

Are you talking about the classical music industry or the general music industry? If the general, I believe that yes, non talents like Justine Bieber and Pink and Beyonce and the rest of the Hoopla, have no talent and just got in the spotlight because of all the wrong reasons, but how about the classical music world, where people actually dedicate themselves for years to achieve some kind of competence and later on success if it may come...but perhaps one could also say that there are many composers today who are not really great composers and they because of been in the right time and in the right place with the right connections, achieved much recognition, money and fame, then even more talented composers who still relatively unknown...


both

granted classical music has less to hide behind but you can't deny that not always the best player gets the best roles opportunities. There is so much more involved with being successful than how you play. What it boils down to is not so much talent but can you do the job, are you likeable and do you get along with people. Thats it. A very small % of people ever just get by with talent. In fact i would say that percentage is pretty much 0.

As far as composers, the problem is that modern composition is EDM , pop, film scoring. One could argue that the last vestige of music that has not yet been explored is music production so electronic artists are really at the forefront of composition.

Unfortunately for some odd reason, people restrict the term to serious classical. The problem is that I have yet to hear serious classical music that A, had any sort of mass appeal in that it is purely academic and B, these composers live in a bubble supported by government grants which is fine but to only consider that composition is silly.

I am a big fan of electronic dance music as the production is cutting edge and therefore it is really the most cutting edge music being made at the moment. Sure there is nothing being added harmonically, but has that changed in 50 years, no new melodies, but there are new production aesthetics, new ways to layer and create sound.

You will never be known outside of academia trying to redo modern music isn't really modern and just a rehash of what they did in the 50s.


Re: New take on the idea of 'An Amateur Pianist'... [Re: Saul] #1703879
06/28/11 10:42 PM
06/28/11 10:42 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 550
Dystopia (but not Dystonia!)
C
chercherchopin Offline
500 Post Club Member
chercherchopin  Offline
500 Post Club Member
C
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 550
Dystopia (but not Dystonia!)
Originally Posted by Saul
So let's say that the non entity and non talent as Justine Biber makes huge bucks, and Mendelssohn never held a job or made a dime with his music, would you consider Mendelssohn an Amateur and Bieber a Professional? lol, something is not right there...

Well, it's 'not right' to the extent that it doesn't seem fair ... unless it were Mendelssohn's choice to remain a hobbyist.

But yes, in that scenario Bieber would be a professional and Mendelssohn an amateur. I didn't make the definitions, and because, as I said, I don't think those labels necessarily say anything about ability, I don't find anything offensive about them.

Also -- further to what B.O. said about politics and luck in the music industry -- I think it applies equally in pop and classical music because of the sheer diversity of paid positions in those areas. Surely cronyism plays a significant role in employment in recording studios, for example -- and in the U.S., at least, anybody at all can hang out a shingle and 'be' a teacher of a musical instrument without regard to qualifications or credentials.


Offensive tag line deleted by moderators.
Re: New take on the idea of 'An Amateur Pianist'... [Re: Saul] #1703887
06/28/11 10:52 PM
06/28/11 10:52 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,637
D
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Damon  Offline
6000 Post Club Member
D
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,637
Originally Posted by Saul

So let's say that the non entity and non talent as Justine Biber makes huge bucks, and Mendelssohn never held a job or made a dime with his music, would you consider Mendelssohn an Amateur and Bieber a Professional? lol, something is not right there...


That's exactly right. Bieber would be the professional. Mendelssohn, an amateur. If it doesn't sound right, it's because you are assuming that professional = good. It doesn't.

Re: New take on the idea of 'An Amateur Pianist'... [Re: Saul] #1703888
06/28/11 10:56 PM
06/28/11 10:56 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 832
L
Lingyis Offline
500 Post Club Member
Lingyis  Offline
500 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 832
well, a professional is just somebody who makes a living in that field. i'm pretty sure there're plenty of professionals who plays the piano way worse than many of us amateurs here.

historically, a lot of notable mathematicians and scientists were "amateurs". we just don't think of them as such because they made such important contributions.

Re: New take on the idea of 'An Amateur Pianist'... [Re: Damon] #1703890
06/28/11 10:56 PM
06/28/11 10:56 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 743
Banned
S
Saul Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
Saul  Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 743
Banned
Ok, I got it now, Professional doesn’t necessarily mean competent or even good, but just a statement of reality, that this person has a job, even if he sucks in what he does...LOL! ha

Re: New take on the idea of 'An Amateur Pianist'... [Re: Saul] #1703891
06/28/11 11:00 PM
06/28/11 11:00 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 743
Banned
S
Saul Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
Saul  Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 743
Banned
In the movie 300. the Spartans described those village people who came to help them in the fighting against the Persians as "Amateurs'...but I don’t recall the Spartans used to get paid for their services in the army...in that context, the word amateur means incompetent, and has nothing to do with money, and the word professional meant competent, again with no monetary associations.

Re: New take on the idea of 'An Amateur Pianist'... [Re: Saul] #1703897
06/28/11 11:05 PM
06/28/11 11:05 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 21,126
Victoria, BC
BruceD Offline
Gold Subscriber
BruceD  Offline
Gold Subscriber
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 21,126
Victoria, BC
Originally Posted by Saul
[...]
So let's say that the non entity and non talent as Justine Biber [sic!] makes huge bucks, and Mendelssohn never held a job or made a dime with his music[...]


When did Bieber become female?


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
Re: New take on the idea of 'An Amateur Pianist'... [Re: BruceD] #1703900
06/28/11 11:08 PM
06/28/11 11:08 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 743
Banned
S
Saul Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
Saul  Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 743
Banned
Originally Posted by BruceD
Originally Posted by Saul
[...]
So let's say that the non entity and non talent as Justine Biber [sic!] makes huge bucks, and Mendelssohn never held a job or made a dime with his music[...]


When did Bieber become female?


What are you talking about?

Re: New take on the idea of 'An Amateur Pianist'... [Re: Saul] #1703902
06/28/11 11:10 PM
06/28/11 11:10 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 368
Banned
BadOrange Offline
Full Member
BadOrange  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 368
Banned
Bieber is a talented kid. He just lacked the proper training.

Re: New take on the idea of 'An Amateur Pianist'... [Re: Saul] #1703904
06/28/11 11:10 PM
06/28/11 11:10 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 21,126
Victoria, BC
BruceD Offline
Gold Subscriber
BruceD  Offline
Gold Subscriber
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 21,126
Victoria, BC
Originally Posted by Saul
Originally Posted by BruceD
Originally Posted by Saul
[...]
So let's say that the non entity and non talent as Justine Biber [sic!] makes huge bucks, and Mendelssohn never held a job or made a dime with his music[...]


When did Bieber become female?


What are you talking about?


Justin Bieber is his name; Justine is a girl's name.


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
Re: New take on the idea of 'An Amateur Pianist'... [Re: Saul] #1703911
06/28/11 11:25 PM
06/28/11 11:25 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,637
D
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Damon  Offline
6000 Post Club Member
D
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,637
Originally Posted by Saul
In the movie 300. the Spartans described those village people who came to help them in the fighting against the Persians as "Amateurs'...but I don’t recall the Spartans used to get paid for their services in the army...in that context, the word amateur means incompetent, and has nothing to do with money, and the word professional meant competent, again with no monetary associations.


They weren't referred to as amateurs. Leonidas asked them their professions and they answered as bakers, blacksmiths, etc. Assuming the movie has any historical accuracy at all and Spartans only soldiered for a living (as Leonidas suggests in the movie), then they must have been paid, even if it was only in the spoils of war. Keep in mind we are now talking about a movie, written by someone who might not know what a professional is.

Re: New take on the idea of 'An Amateur Pianist'... [Re: BadOrange] #1703912
06/28/11 11:26 PM
06/28/11 11:26 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,637
D
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Damon  Offline
6000 Post Club Member
D
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,637
Originally Posted by BadOrange
Bieber is a talented kid. He just lacked the proper training.


What training did he need?

Re: New take on the idea of 'An Amateur Pianist'... [Re: Damon] #1703921
06/28/11 11:41 PM
06/28/11 11:41 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 743
Banned
S
Saul Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
Saul  Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 743
Banned
Originally Posted by Damon
Originally Posted by BadOrange
Bieber is a talented kid. He just lacked the proper training.


What training did he need?


ha

Re: New take on the idea of 'An Amateur Pianist'... [Re: Damon] #1703923
06/28/11 11:44 PM
06/28/11 11:44 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 743
Banned
S
Saul Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
Saul  Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 743
Banned
Originally Posted by Damon
Originally Posted by Saul
In the movie 300. the Spartans described those village people who came to help them in the fighting against the Persians as "Amateurs'...but I don’t recall the Spartans used to get paid for their services in the army...in that context, the word amateur means incompetent, and has nothing to do with money, and the word professional meant competent, again with no monetary associations.


They weren't referred to as amateurs. Leonidas asked them their professions and they answered as bakers, blacksmiths, etc. Assuming the movie has any historical accuracy at all and Spartans only soldiered for a living (as Leonidas suggests in the movie), then they must have been paid, even if it was only in the spoils of war. Keep in mind we are now talking about a movie, written by someone who might not know what a professional is.


Yes they were, by the narrator, watch it again. And the Spartans had a way of life that was connected to army and battle, but it wasn’t a profession per say..

Re: New take on the idea of 'An Amateur Pianist'... [Re: Saul] #1703926
06/28/11 11:50 PM
06/28/11 11:50 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 21,126
Victoria, BC
BruceD Offline
Gold Subscriber
BruceD  Offline
Gold Subscriber
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 21,126
Victoria, BC
Originally Posted by Saul
[...]
Yes they were, by the narrator, watch it again. And the Spartans had a way of life that was connected to army and battle, but it wasn’t a profession per say..


Everything we see/hear in movies is confirmation of fact, is it?


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
Re: New take on the idea of 'An Amateur Pianist'... [Re: Saul] #1703933
06/29/11 12:08 AM
06/29/11 12:08 AM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 368
Banned
BadOrange Offline
Full Member
BadOrange  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 368
Banned
Originally Posted by Saul
Originally Posted by Damon
Originally Posted by BadOrange
Bieber is a talented kid. He just lacked the proper training.


What training did he need?


ha


lol

look

i can't stand what he does but that isn't really him making the decisions. But it is obvious he has some innate talent but his situation presents either a path to learn more than you could any other way in that he is surrounded by the best musicians in the business or he could end up doing well until he hits 18 and discovers cocaine. Nobody that age is ready for that sort of thing. And the sort of schedule they have him doing does not really present much time for actual practice. He learns his tour, then he does press conferences. HE will learn alot about life but I don't really think it will necessarily make for a great musician.

Last edited by BadOrange; 06/29/11 12:09 AM.
Re: New take on the idea of 'An Amateur Pianist'... [Re: Saul] #1703935
06/29/11 12:09 AM
06/29/11 12:09 AM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,637
D
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Damon  Offline
6000 Post Club Member
D
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,637
Originally Posted by Saul

Yes they were, by the narrator, watch it again. And the Spartans had a way of life that was connected to army and battle, but it wasn’t a profession per say..


You're going to make me dig the movie out of a box? laugh I'll just take your word for it. Amateur still applies to the villagers, they made their living doing regular jobs. The movie (I hope you notice that I keep accenting that word because they are mostly fiction) would still have you believe that Spartans fight, for a living. None of the Spartans in the movie, at least in that scene, claimed to do anything but battle. Yet they obviously ate, though maybe not much judging by the eight-pack they were all sporting.

Re: New take on the idea of 'An Amateur Pianist'... [Re: BadOrange] #1703940
06/29/11 12:13 AM
06/29/11 12:13 AM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,637
D
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Damon  Offline
6000 Post Club Member
D
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,637
Originally Posted by BadOrange
Originally Posted by Saul
Originally Posted by Damon
Originally Posted by BadOrange
Bieber is a talented kid. He just lacked the proper training.


What training did he need?


ha


lol

look

i can't stand what he does but that isn't really him making the decisions. But it is obvious he has some innate talent but his situation presents either a path to learn more than you could any other way in that he is surrounded by the best musicians in the business or he could end up doing well until he hits 18 and discovers cocaine. Nobody that age is ready for that sort of thing. And the sort of schedule they have him doing does not really present much time for actual practice. He learns his tour, then he does press conferences. HE will learn alot about life but I don't really think it will necessarily make for a great musician.


I thought he was a singer, not a musician. And I wasn't sure if you meant vocal training or something else.

Re: New take on the idea of 'An Amateur Pianist'... [Re: Saul] #1703947
06/29/11 12:20 AM
06/29/11 12:20 AM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 368
Banned
BadOrange Offline
Full Member
BadOrange  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 368
Banned
The voice is an instrument but he plays a variety of instruments. None of them particularly well due to the lack of training but he does show a certain innate talent for someone that has never practiced or pursued purposeful training.

But on the other hand , he is a millionaire so... I saw some early videos on youtube and he could be moulded into a great musician but that obviously won't be happening. I think his lifestyle just would not provide the time despite the access he could have to musicians, recording facilities and all that. His PR schedule is ridiculous. Not that there is not learning in doing that.

I just dont' see the point in judging a kid. He has no idea what he is doing. He is following orders and in a way , his life is way more stressful than most kids his age. Hate the producers, the song writers but come on, he is a kid.


Last edited by BadOrange; 06/29/11 12:22 AM.
Re: New take on the idea of 'An Amateur Pianist'... [Re: Damon] #1703948
06/29/11 12:21 AM
06/29/11 12:21 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,373
Pacific Northwest, US.
A
argerichfan Offline
9000 Post Club Member
argerichfan  Offline
9000 Post Club Member
A
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,373
Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted by Damon
Originally Posted by BadOrange
Bieber is a talented kid. He just lacked the proper training.


What training did he need?

None that I can think of. He's doing quite well for himself, and he's an adorable kid. Let him have his place in the sun, and the many girls who love him find him no threat or complication to their budding sexuality.

But will he age well and become another Springsteen, Mellencamp or even a Depp or DiCaprio? Time will tell.


Jason
Re: New take on the idea of 'An Amateur Pianist'... [Re: argerichfan] #1703950
06/29/11 12:24 AM
06/29/11 12:24 AM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 368
Banned
BadOrange Offline
Full Member
BadOrange  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 368
Banned
Originally Posted by argerichfan
Originally Posted by Damon
Originally Posted by BadOrange
Bieber is a talented kid. He just lacked the proper training.


What training did he need?

None that I can think of. He's doing quite well for himself, and he's an adorable kid. Let him have his place in the sun, and the many girls who love him find him no threat or complication to their budding sexuality.

But will he age well and become another Springsteen, Mellencamp or even a Depp or DiCaprio? Time will tell.


well define the level of skill and we can talk about the training needed. Given his age, he can't really do anything well. His singing lacks a fundamental technique which will ruin it in 5 years, he can play chords on a guitar, his drumming is rather bad. Every thing he does is mediocre. Again this is not due to talent but rather not having the ability to actually develop as musician. He is a very rough diamond but when it comes to the pop industry, you can make anyone sound good. His image was what made his career even if he had those videos that impressed people. All his concerts have a backtrack just like any other pop act. No label in this climate will leave anything to chance.

Last edited by BadOrange; 06/29/11 12:27 AM.
Re: New take on the idea of 'An Amateur Pianist'... [Re: BadOrange] #1703965
06/29/11 12:40 AM
06/29/11 12:40 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,373
Pacific Northwest, US.
A
argerichfan Offline
9000 Post Club Member
argerichfan  Offline
9000 Post Club Member
A
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,373
Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted by BadOrange

well define the level of skill and we can talk about the training needed. Given his age, he can't really do anything well. His singing lacks a fundamental technique which will ruin it in 5 years, he can play chords on a guitar, his drumming is rather bad. Every thing he does is mediocre. Again this is not due to talent but rather not having the ability to actually develop as musician. He is a very rough diamond but when it comes to the pop industry, you can make anyone sound good. His image was what made his career even if he had those videos that impressed people. All his concerts have a backtrack just like any other pop act. No label in this climate will leave anything to chance.

I have no disagreement with that, and I also have no crystal ball. (Frankly it's hardly much of a concern, as this isn't music or video that appeals to me anyway.) But the lad has great charisma, and I've seen a few pop artists who have made a successful career on that basis. I can certainly think of one in particular, and to this day I cannot figure that one out!


Jason
Re: New take on the idea of 'An Amateur Pianist'... [Re: argerichfan] #1703972
06/29/11 12:51 AM
06/29/11 12:51 AM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,637
D
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Damon  Offline
6000 Post Club Member
D
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,637
Originally Posted by argerichfan
Originally Posted by Damon
Originally Posted by BadOrange
Bieber is a talented kid. He just lacked the proper training.


What training did he need?

None that I can think of. He's doing quite well for himself, and he's an adorable kid. Let him have his place in the sun, and the many girls who love him find him no threat or complication to their budding sexuality.

But will he age well and become another Springsteen, Mellencamp or even a Depp or DiCaprio? Time will tell.


I've not heard Bieber sing for more than a few seconds, but that was long enough to determine that if he were to become a Springsteen or a Mellencamp, he would have to learn how to sing worse. smile Please tell me you meant star/sex appeal.

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Brendan, Kreisler 

New Topics - Multiple Forums
Highlights of Philly... and its not just the Cheesesteaks
by UnderConstruction. 04/22/18 02:00 AM
Creating practice songs
by ManishP. 04/22/18 01:43 AM
Monitor for reading sheet music
by Angelos58. 04/22/18 01:17 AM
Opening a Roland HP 603?
by Issac. 04/22/18 12:07 AM
Restored pianos - General Question
by almo82. 04/21/18 11:46 PM
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Pianist Magazine
Pianist Magazine - Play Debussy
(ad)
Pearl River & Ritmuller
Ritmuller Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq 6 Out now
Forum Statistics
Forums40
Topics185,172
Posts2,711,733
Members90,041
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2018 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1