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#1699968 - 06/22/11 02:02 PM Notation Software  
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pist Offline
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Hi Guys
Does anybody know about "music writing software"?

I bought a CLP330 a year ago, mainly for my children (age 8/preparing for gr1 and 10/ for gr3) to practise on.

My oldest spends quite some time composing her own tunes and I was wondering, is there some (fairly inexpensive) software out there, that would allow her to connect the laptop to the clp330 (maybe via the USB), play her music and then the software writes the notes, so she can print it?

Thanks
:)pist

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#1699976 - 06/22/11 02:24 PM Re: Notation Software [Re: pist]  
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azandj Offline
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Try Finale NotePad ($9.95) or Finale Songwriter ($49.95).


Home piano: Yamaha P2 upright
#1700005 - 06/22/11 03:20 PM Re: Notation Software [Re: pist]  
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You can also check out "noteflight" (www.noteflight.com) - it's a free online program.



- Gary Girouard
Consultant for Viscount ("Physis" Physical-model piano; http://www.physispiano.com)
Pianist/Composer of "The Naked Piano" series (Free Music Samples http://www.garygirouardmusic.com)
Teacher, Entrepreneur...Parent
#1700012 - 06/22/11 03:42 PM Re: Notation Software [Re: pist]  
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Linux has a great free tool called "Rosegarden"
On other platform, I've heard of MuseScore, but have not tried
Mac has Garage band, which is OK.


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#1700063 - 06/22/11 05:21 PM Re: Notation Software [Re: knotty]  
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Per Baekgaard Offline
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Originally Posted by knotty

On other platform, I've heard of MuseScore, but have not tried


MuseScore (musescore.org) works on Linux, Mac OS-X and Windows. It is quite powerful program that can do a lot of stuff.


-- Per.

Last edited by Per Baekgaard; 06/22/11 05:21 PM.

Hornung & Møller Acoustic Grand
Roland RD-700NX, Nord Electro 3, Yamaha P150, Roland JV-80
#1700363 - 06/23/11 07:08 AM Re: Notation Software [Re: pist]  
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Last edited by dannac; 06/23/11 07:10 AM.
#1700688 - 06/23/11 04:41 PM Re: Notation Software [Re: Per Baekgaard]  
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TwinHammer Offline
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Originally Posted by Per Baekgaard
Originally Posted by knotty

On other platform, I've heard of MuseScore, but have not tried


MuseScore (musescore.org) works on Linux, Mac OS-X and Windows. It is quite powerful program that can do a lot of stuff.


-- Per.


I use MuseScore myself, and I like it. It satisfies my needs and the (free) pricetag can't be beat.


Roland FP-7f
#1701004 - 06/24/11 05:29 AM Re: Notation Software [Re: pist]  
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MuseScore looks like nice option, I like their Youtube clips explaining how to use it.

I use Finale Notepad, some older version, which is free smile


Roland FP-4
#1701016 - 06/24/11 06:20 AM Re: Notation Software [Re: pist]  
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When I was looking around for software, I found the following link which reviewed most of the more well-known products in this category to be very helpful.

http://music-notation-software-review.toptenreviews.com/

I've ended up with Sibelius First - although even that's a bit more than i really need.

Finale notepad / Songwriter was gonna be my next choice.


Nord Stage 2, VAX77
#1702137 - 06/26/11 01:04 AM Re: Notation Software [Re: Siriosys]  
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azandj Offline
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Originally Posted by Siriosys
I've ended up with Sibelius First - although even that's a bit more than i really need.

Finale notepad / Songwriter was gonna be my next choice.


I personally use Sibelius, but there are so many unnecessary features... for the price difference, I would say Finale still wins...


Home piano: Yamaha P2 upright
#1702153 - 06/26/11 01:37 AM Re: Notation Software [Re: pist]  
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azandj,

I'm interested in which package you've found easier to master?

A lot of people find notation software a little difficult to get used to.

Personally for me, I require note-entry via a piano/MIDI instrument keyboard as using a mouse/Mac keyboard is difficult due to my restricted eye-sight.

Although I do use Sibelius, I'm always interested to find out if there's any other packages that make entry from an instrument keyboard easy.




Nord Stage 2, VAX77
#1702507 - 06/26/11 05:11 PM Re: Notation Software [Re: Siriosys]  
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azandj Offline
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Originally Posted by Siriosys

I'm interested in which package you've found easier to master?


To me they are very similar because I only use the basic notation features. I don't use them for composition, but rather to make a note of something I am playing by ear.

Originally Posted by Siriosys
Personally for me, I require note-entry via a piano/MIDI instrument keyboard as using a mouse/Mac keyboard is difficult due to my restricted eye-sight.


I know it is quite ironic due to the fact that I am in the DP forums all the time, but I actually don't have a MIDI instrument. When I am working in Sibelius I use the on-screen keyboard. The keyboard can be stretched to be quite large, but the symbols for the notes, etc. are still quite small. If you were to use Sibelius a lot, I'd suggest getting the keyboard cover that has all of the symbols on it.


Home piano: Yamaha P2 upright
#1702640 - 06/26/11 10:51 PM Re: Notation Software [Re: pist]  
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Originally Posted by pist
...
My oldest spends quite some time composing her own tunes and I was wondering, is there some (fairly inexpensive) software out there, that would allow her to connect the laptop to the clp330 (maybe via the USB), play her music and then the software writes the notes, so she can print it?...



If the computer is an Apple Mac, then you don't need aditional software. They can print music notation as you describe right out of the box. Look for "Garage Band" in the "apps" folder.

f you have to buy software then a few features to look for. The first is good "quantization" What happens if you don't play with perfect precision is that you end up with a 64th note tied to a half note or a dotted 16th where you wanted an 1/8th. In other words the software will write what you played, not what you wanted. The better software is "smart" and knows what a measure is, the time signature and knows what key you are in and makes more reasonable output. So check the reviews.

None of iot is perfect so you need a good music editor to correct it's miss-guesses.

#1702869 - 06/27/11 10:00 AM Re: Notation Software [Re: pist]  
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I've been using lilypond. There's example's of the layout it produces on the site.

The biggest hurdle though is that it's not GUI based, but instead you enter the music in text and run it through lilypond to produce the output. The end results are amazing though.

Have a read through this essay it covers the reason behind lilypond and has some pretty interesting notes about music engraving.


[Linked Image] XIX, XIV, XII, XI
#1702923 - 06/27/11 11:28 AM Re: Notation Software [Re: Gary001]  
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Originally Posted by Gary001
I've been using lilypond. There's example's of the layout it produces on the site.

I've used Lilypond some and can recommend it as well. It gives very nice looking PDF output. But it can be a bit intimidating at first if you've never used a markup language or LaTEX or similar. Start with something simple and work your way up. You sort of have to develop a coding style.

#1702971 - 06/27/11 12:43 PM Re: Notation Software [Re: pist]  
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If you ever used something like LaTEX or PHP or C++ lilypond is for you... Even if you're an IT noob there are good chances you get addicted to the very easy way this tool works. There are even very mature addons for it with a complete UI for easy WYSIWYG (I like the jedit UI).


<~ don't test forever - play and enjoy! ~>
#1702993 - 06/27/11 01:09 PM Re: Notation Software [Re: pist]  
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I also use Musescore and tend to like it. There is another free program (open source) that is similar called Aria Maestosa. It's a little bit more grahically based, so may appeal to some.


"When words fail, music speaks."
#1703162 - 06/27/11 06:11 PM Re: Notation Software [Re: Gary001]  
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Originally Posted by Gary001
I've been using lilypond. There's example's of the layout it produces on the site.

The biggest hurdle though is that it's not GUI based,


Markup is not hard to learn. But the OP wants soething different. He wants to noodle around on the piano and record as he tries out ideas. The recording is so can go back and look at what he played.

I stil recommend simply using "Garage Band" and then maybe graduating to Logic. These have features for playing around, like "cyclic" recording where you can play a phrase over and over but the recording "stacks" then, later you can audition the version and move the best "take" to the top. This works for vocalist too who want to experiment. The editor is also "non-destructive" so edits and deletes and cut and past can be un-done. "stacks" move as a unit with only the top of the stack being exposed. You really need these kinds of things to capture your experiments and edit them into something.

Simple notation software is better for making a nice looking copy of something you have already worked out. Music composing and music publishing are different activities.


#1703405 - 06/28/11 04:56 AM Re: Notation Software [Re: pist]  
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pist Offline
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Thanks for all the wonderful replies guys! (although I have to admit I don't undestand all of them, being a complete beginner myself blush)

We don't have an apple Mac, just a normal Windows based laptop, so I think maybe Musicscore and Finale Notepad are the ones to have a look at.
Does any of you who have experience with these, have an opinion on which might be the simplest to use (my daughter is 10)
:)pist

edit: ooh and just spotted the "Aria Maestosa" reply; graphic based might just be great for a child.....

Last edited by pist; 06/28/11 05:00 AM.
#1703448 - 06/28/11 07:44 AM Re: Notation Software [Re: pist]  
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Regardig Finale Notepad: You need at least Finale Songwriter which is I think $49.95 to also enter music by realtime (playing a piano sequence). It also includes an automatic drum grooves accompaniment with drums and auto-harmonization which is fun to use esp. for a child. But it's no problem to first buy Notepad and later Songwriter, because you can get an upgrade to Songwriter just for the price difference of the two versions.


<~ don't test forever - play and enjoy! ~>
#1703796 - 06/28/11 08:10 PM Re: Notation Software [Re: ChrisA]  
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Originally Posted by ChrisA


Markup is not hard to learn. But the OP wants soething different. He wants to noodle around on the piano and record as he tries out ideas. The recording is so can go back and look at what he played.



I should't have skim read the post before replying. Still, the OP now has options for both composing and creating a final score so it wasn't a total waste smile



[Linked Image] XIX, XIV, XII, XI
#1703920 - 06/28/11 11:40 PM Re: Notation Software [Re: pist]  
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Lots of great suggestions here! I'd recommend anyone who is long-term serious about their compositions not lock into anything proprietary. The guys charging admission are the first to let you down, and the ones who are serious and really care won't charge you. As in all things in life.

#1704028 - 06/29/11 04:54 AM Re: Notation Software [Re: mucci]  
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Originally Posted by mucci
Regardig Finale Notepad: You need at least Finale Songwriter which is I think $49.95 to also enter music by realtime (playing a piano sequence). It also includes an automatic drum grooves accompaniment with drums and auto-harmonization which is fun to use esp. for a child. But it's no problem to first buy Notepad and later Songwriter, because you can get an upgrade to Songwriter just for the price difference of the two versions.


I downloaded and tried Finale Notepad trial and was impressed at its ease of use and scoring results. A bit of a shame you have to upgrade to SongWriter to get "realtime note entry", but it's somewhat cheaper than it's Sibelius alternative with the same feature and certainly is great value for money. Actually, SongWriter looks like quite a nice balance of features on reflection. Not too much of the stuff one doesn't need.

In terms of an upgrade path, Finale offers a more incremental route than Sibelius, but more flexible at the various price-points. I note that Sibelius appears to be the standard in academic institutions as a composition tool of choice.

To be able to just sit at the Piano and try out your ideas without having to muck around with markup or complex software makes the notation tasks of composition a lot less obstructive and enables one to just sit and experiment with the sound, then going along afterwards and tidying up where it's quantization has err'd etc etc.

On a side note (pun not intended) I have made use of the Sibelius support and forums and was extremely impressed at the quality of responses to my questions in terms of getting the answers I needed. It's a much bigger community than I realised. I'm guessing that Finale is probably pretty similar in that regard.





Nord Stage 2, VAX77
#1704243 - 06/29/11 12:20 PM Re: Notation Software [Re: Siriosys]  
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Originally Posted by Siriosys

To be able to just sit at the Piano and try out your ideas without having to muck around with markup or complex software makes the notation tasks of composition a lot less obstructive and enables one to just sit and experiment with the sound, then going along afterwards and tidying up where it's quantization has err'd etc etc.


That is pretty much why I tell people to just use Garage Band. It does just that and is included in the price of the computer and has a very short learning curve. I have other software (Including an older copy of Sibelius) but I still use GB some times because it is simple. If you do have to decide between Finale and Sibelius do NOT decide based on the price look at ease of use and how fast you can work. $100 more or less is not worth years of putting up with what you don't want.

I know people complain about the price of a Mac. Not everyone can afford to spend $700 on a computer, not when Walmart has them for $350. But the total cost of ownership, the computer, the software less the eventual re-sale of the used equipment years later is less. That $350 Walmart machine is headed for a dumpster in 3 to 5 years while the $700 mac will sell used for $350. Total price is the same but then the cost of software is much less. There is not magic in this. It is driven my elf-interest. The Windows PC universe with Microsoft in the center of it, is set up to practically give away hardware and then make all the money selling you software. Apple is a hardware company and make software and sell it cheap or give it away so you will buy they hardware. They make all their money on the hardware.

#1704376 - 06/29/11 03:44 PM Re: Notation Software [Re: pist]  
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I use Finale Printmusic, but I only put in the notes manually (I don't connect my DP). I have heard from multiple sources that when you connect your DP and "play" the notes into the score that you usually end up editing a lot and that it's not worth it - I haven't tried it, though. I am very satisfied with this program and would recommend. If you end up with Finale and need help, feel free to contact me. I'm not a pro but have learned a lot with the help of someone who I would call a pro.

#1704478 - 06/29/11 06:20 PM Re: Notation Software [Re: ChrisA]  
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Originally Posted by ChrisA
Originally Posted by Siriosys

To be able to just sit at the Piano and try out your ideas without having to muck around with markup or complex software makes the notation tasks of composition a lot less obstructive and enables one to just sit and experiment with the sound, then going along afterwards and tidying up where it's quantization has err'd etc etc.


That is pretty much why I tell people to just use Garage Band. It does just that and is included in the price of the computer and has a very short learning curve. I have other software (Including an older copy of Sibelius) but I still use GB some times because it is simple. If you do have to decide between Finale and Sibelius do NOT decide based on the price look at ease of use and how fast you can work. $100 more or less is not worth years of putting up with what you don't want.

I know people complain about the price of a Mac. Not everyone can afford to spend $700 on a computer, not when Walmart has them for $350. But the total cost of ownership, the computer, the software less the eventual re-sale of the used equipment years later is less. That $350 Walmart machine is headed for a dumpster in 3 to 5 years while the $700 mac will sell used for $350. Total price is the same but then the cost of software is much less. There is not magic in this. It is driven my elf-interest. The Windows PC universe with Microsoft in the center of it, is set up to practically give away hardware and then make all the money selling you software. Apple is a hardware company and make software and sell it cheap or give it away so you will buy they hardware. They make all their money on the hardware.


You raise some good points Chris,

I've used Sibelius First - primarily because the MIDI keyboard note entry and learning curve to me, at least, was a lot less trouble than Finale and I find the screen layout a bit easier on the eyes. In so far as the notes coming out right, yeah, some editting is needed, but I've found it pretty good for my needs - actually surprisingly good!

I use GB all the time! Mainly as a 'scratchpad' for short pieces of music or to get ideas down really quickly before I commit them to 'hardcopy' with Notation software. It's a terribly underrated piece of software! I know people dis it, but I can do a heck of a lot in GB including smaller orchestrations, getting a feel for what I want it to sound like, before using any Notation tools. obviously, with multiple staffs GB can't compete with the dedicated notation tools out there, but it's still a bloody good piece of software. I laughed loudly the day I listened to a colleague berating Apple as to why there wasn't a version of GB for his Windows98 pc..........lol.

.......I'm totally with you on the 'bang for buck' of Apple gear. I'm an IT professional by day spending all my time on either Windows desktop, linux & AS/400 server environments and have had the whole "why should apple cost so much' argument with way too many people to remember. People all too easily forget that 'value' in an item we purchase also extends to the point at which we part with it - eg, 'resale' value - I'm on to my second Apple computer which is now a MBP and 3 years after buying my original iMac, I got NZ$1200 for it. A new MBP here is NZ$1999 - so in short, I got a nice upgrade in the form of a new computer for only NZ$700 and it came with free music making software.......... say no more.



Nord Stage 2, VAX77
#1704490 - 06/29/11 06:36 PM Re: Notation Software [Re: pist]  
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If you already have a Mac, it sounds like Garage Band might be already on it.

Don't pay anything for any product unless you find out through experience that Musescore is no good for you, because it's really free (not just a teaser for an expensive program). Finale and Sibelius have to make money, and one of their main ways of doing that is to make their cheaper software intentionally not quite good enough for what you want to do. Musescore has no such strategic limitations; as such, it is almost sure to be good enough unless you are a demanding professional - in which case you can easily afford the full version of one of the "big" programs.


(I'm a piano teacher.)
#1704493 - 06/29/11 06:46 PM Re: Notation Software [Re: david_a]  
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Originally Posted by david_a
unless you are a demanding professional - in which case you can easily afford the full version of one of the "big" programs.


LOL.....that's a bit of an over-generalization.....

Demanding and Professional are not mutually inclusive, and I'm yet to meet a Professional musician who can "easily" afford anything!



Nord Stage 2, VAX77
#1704803 - 06/30/11 09:07 AM Re: Notation Software [Re: pist]  
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I downloaded the $10 version of Finale (windows) and didn't find it great. Then I tried Muse and was agreeably surprised; it doesn't hurt that it's free. It's very easy to get started and if you want the more powerful layout options they are there after a bit of digging around. The advanced layout tools are really excellent and comprehensive and that makes a huge difference when you print the music out in terms of readability. For 1-4 pages compositions it's good, I can't comment on longer pieces.

#1706131 - 07/02/11 10:56 AM Re: Notation Software [Re: pist]  
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.

Last edited by jmcintyre; 07/03/11 03:02 AM.

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