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Re: The ABF Survey 2011 [Re: Sam S] #1697711
06/18/11 09:33 PM
06/18/11 09:33 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,496
Virginia, USA
A
Andy Platt Offline
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Andy Platt  Offline
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A

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,496
Virginia, USA
Best of all ... I feel young smile

Thanks Sam!!!


  • Debussy - Le Petit Nègre, L. 114
  • Haydn - Sonata in Gm, Hob. XVI/44

Kawai K3
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Re: The ABF Survey 2011 [Re: Sam S] #1697777
06/18/11 10:53 PM
06/18/11 10:53 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 715
Maryland
B
Bart Kinlein Offline
500 Post Club Member
Bart Kinlein  Offline
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B

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 715
Maryland
I'm in. But maybe you should add an "over 70" category. Would be interested in how many of us there are. But maybe it doesn't matter, after all ...


Steinway 1905 model A, rebuild started 2008, completed 2012
Yahama CVP-401
Will somone get my wife off the Steinway so I can play it!
Re: The ABF Survey 2011 [Re: Sam S] #1697840
06/19/11 12:01 AM
06/19/11 12:01 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,171
US
BenPiano Offline
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BenPiano  Offline
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Posts: 1,171
US
Sam, this is really cool!

Looking at the results, I would say at this point, both statistically and scientifically, that a significant majority of adult beginners / beganners / re-beginners are confirmed to be clinically crazy.

Crazy for piano, it appears! laugh


Learning to play since June 2009.
My piano diary on You Tube: http://www.youtube.com/user/afpaSTU1096
[Linked Image] <- 10+ ABF recitals
Re: The ABF Survey 2011 [Re: Sam S] #1697850
06/19/11 12:19 AM
06/19/11 12:19 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,126
not in Japan anymore
ShiroKuro Offline
4000 Post Club Member
ShiroKuro  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,126
not in Japan anymore
Thanks Sam!! I just did my survey. It made me realize something, which of course I already knew, but don't usually think about much.

I started as an adult, and I have played piano for more than 10 years now, and I have taken lessons almost continuously the entire time. (the except being 4-months at the start of grad school, and during that time I did a lot of "mental music") Anyway, interestingly enough, I started piano in June of 1999, when I got a digital piano. (Although I can't remember the specific date, I have always "celebrated" June as my own person piano-month. I got my upright in June of 2000, too). So I have been playing and taking lessons for 12 years now.

Wow. Just wow. That's either really really cool, or really depressing-- because I should be better than I am by now! crazy

We'll go with "really really cool," I've always been a cup-half-full type. And besides, I have loved everyday of my piano-life the entire time, and, although I definitely get more enjoyment out of playing for others these days (having learned to control my nerves better), I don't think my feelings about piano have changed at all. These days, I am just as excited every time I sit down to play as I was 12 years ago. My love affair with the piano is second only to the love affair I have with my husband! 2hearts

Anyway.... whome


Although I'm not in the minority as an adult began-er, I think I am in the minority as a lesson-taker and as a long-term lesson-taker. I need to go look at those results again. But that's really interesting to think about... I wonder how my progress would have differed if I hadn't taken lessons the whole time. And, I should mention, I've been a PW member since 2004, which has been and remains without doubt another crucial source of learning for me.

But it's really interesting to think about one's "piano trajectory," as Sam's suvery gives us the chance to do. We can't know how things might have been different if we'd taken a different path, and though we might have ideas about what helped us along the most, we can't really know. The only thing that's for certain is, none of us would be as good as we are today if we weren't still playing the piano today. And in the end, that's all that matters. That we play.

Sam, again, thank you so much for doing the survey! My original post was just a spur of the moment, spontaneous silly thing (and just for the record, I never meant to imply, and don't think I did, that ABF's name be reconsidered. I think this place is perfect. I just wanted to have a grammatical-abomination to describe my own experience! grin

Anyway, my original post was just inspired by silliness, but I'm so glad it sparked the discussion in the other thread and now this survey. Yay!

Last edited by ShiroKuro; 06/19/11 12:23 AM. Reason: to lower my grammaticality distortion field

Started piano June 1999. My recordings at Box.Net:
https://app.box.com/s/j4rgyhn72uvluemg1m6u

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Re: The ABF Survey 2011 [Re: Sam S] #1697858
06/19/11 12:28 AM
06/19/11 12:28 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,126
not in Japan anymore
ShiroKuro Offline
4000 Post Club Member
ShiroKuro  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,126
not in Japan anymore
P.S. Out of the 81 who've taken the survey so far, only two people (one of them me) have responded that they've taken lessons for more than 10 years as an adult.

Hmmm...

I am not going to add up that money and see how much I've spent on piano lessons.
I am not going to add up that money and see how much I've spent on piano lessons.
I am not going to add up that money and see how much I've spent on piano lessons.
I am not going to add up that money and see how much I've spent on piano lessons.
I am not going to add up that money and see how much I've spent on piano lessons.
I am not going to add up that money and see how much I've spent on piano lessons.
I am not going to add up that money and see how much I've spent on piano lessons.
I am not going to add up that money and see how much I've spent on piano lessons.
I am not going to add up that money and see how much I've spent on piano lessons.
I am not going to add up that money and see how much I've spent on piano lessons.
I am not going to add up that money and see how much I've spent on piano lessons.
I am not going to add up that money and see how much I've spent on piano lessons.

crazy


Started piano June 1999. My recordings at Box.Net:
https://app.box.com/s/j4rgyhn72uvluemg1m6u

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
Re: The ABF Survey 2011 [Re: Sam S] #1697936
06/19/11 06:01 AM
06/19/11 06:01 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,067
Georgia, USA
Sam S Offline OP

3000 Post Club Member
Sam S  Offline OP

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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,067
Georgia, USA
Over 80 responses this morning. If you haven't done it yet, don't be left out!

Sam

Re: The ABF Survey 2011 [Re: Sam S] #1697943
06/19/11 06:56 AM
06/19/11 06:56 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,941
Australia
Canonie Offline
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Canonie  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,941
Australia
I'm in and that makes a very symmetrical 88 responses.


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Composers manufacture a product that is universally deemed superfluous—at least until their music enters public consciousness, at which point people begin to say that they could not live without it.
Alex Ross.
Re: The ABF Survey 2011 [Re: Sam S] #1697949
06/19/11 07:23 AM
06/19/11 07:23 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 14
Spain
F
Fer Offline
Junior Member
Fer  Offline
Junior Member
F

Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 14
Spain
Done, thanks for the idea.

It's not directly asked, but you can deduct the number of restarters. I was surprised by the fact that more than a half members are not restarters, as I am.

Fer



Last edited by Fer; 06/19/11 07:24 AM.
Re: The ABF Survey 2011 [Re: ShiroKuro] #1698091
06/19/11 12:55 PM
06/19/11 12:55 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,234
CebuKid Offline
1000 Post Club Member
CebuKid  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,234
I'm amazed at the number of restarters (I thought there were fewer of "us" than 42%), and also the number of those that had other musical training (at the time of this post, roughly a quarter of us). However, I'm amazed but not surprised. I think those with prior musical training are more likely to play intermediate level pieces on piano after just a few months or a year or 2.

It's similar to, say, knowing how to roller-blade and then learning how to ice skate. The principals of rhythm, key signatures, and music theory are still the same regardless of instrument. Those with training are more apt to learn piano quicker. It's not surprising especially after listening to ABF recitals where over half of the pieces are in the intermediate-to-advanced range. (but that's another unknown statistic - just my SWAG). wink

For the record, I had 5 years of band (percussion) and of course, 3-5 years of lessons as a kid which is why jumping right into intermediate repertoire was fairly seamless. I'm 100% sure as well that hand independence - the thing that true adult beginners seem to struggle with the most - is learned more easily and ingrained in childhood (if you had childhood lessons), making restarting all the more easier.

Another thought....I'd bet there's also a correlation between restarting and then working with no teacher as a grownup. It makes me wonder what percentage of the restarter group is also in the self-taught or working-with-no-teacher group?

Anyway, interesting survey so far. I now have greater insight into "Who is the adult beginner?"

Last edited by CebuKid; 06/19/11 12:59 PM. Reason: correct grammatical errors, and add "another thought."

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Music washes away from the soul
the dust of everyday life.
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Re: The ABF Survey 2011 [Re: Sam S] #1698283
06/19/11 06:07 PM
06/19/11 06:07 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,067
Georgia, USA
Sam S Offline OP

3000 Post Club Member
Sam S  Offline OP

3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,067
Georgia, USA
We've had over 100 responses, which is pretty good for a weekend in June. The more people that respond, the more confident we can be that the results are representative of our musical experience.

So what does the survey say? You can look at the results in pretty pictures. Here's my summary of what it looks like with about 100 responses:

Real adult beginners are in the majority, but not by much. A little more than 40% are re-starters.

We're old! A whopping 74% are over 36. 51% are over 46.

We're also fairly new to the piano as adults. 45% have been playing 2 years or less.

A large majority, 65%, have experience with some other instrument.

61% of the re-starters had between 3 and 10 years of experience as a child.

But 60% of the re-starters took a huge break from piano - over 21 years, before starting again.

Here's something interesting - a majority, 55%, are not taking piano lessons now.

For those that have taken lessons or are taking lessons now, most have been doing it for just a few years.

A quarter of us say they have had no education in music theory, harmony, or history.

And 60% of the responders say they have never participated in the ABF recital. Sounds like some outreach may be needed!

I'll leave the survey open - why not? The more responses we got the better the picture we will have.

And I've already thought of some questions I should have asked but didn't, like gender and what playing level you call yourself. Maybe next year...

Sam

Re: The ABF Survey 2011 [Re: Sam S] #1698543
06/20/11 09:22 AM
06/20/11 09:22 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 24
Ontario, Canada
Alisong Offline
Full Member
Alisong  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 24
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted by Sam S
A quarter of us say they have had no education in music theory, harmony, or history.


Hmmm...the question asked about education in these elememnts separate from instrument lessons. I have never had separare classes, but if I add up the bits that were covered here and there in close to 20 years of lessons over the years, I don't think I'd say I have no education in those areas.

Cool survey, though. It's very interesting to get an idea of what demographic is here.

Re: The ABF Survey 2011 [Re: Alisong] #1698560
06/20/11 10:02 AM
06/20/11 10:02 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,266
Ohio, US
Little_Blue_Engine Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Little_Blue_Engine  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,266
Ohio, US
Originally Posted by Alisong
Originally Posted by Sam S
A quarter of us say they have had no education in music theory, harmony, or history.


Hmmm...the question asked about education in these elememnts separate from instrument lessons. I have never had separare classes, but if I add up the bits that were covered here and there in close to 20 years of lessons over the years, I don't think I'd say I have no education in those areas.

Cool survey, though. It's very interesting to get an idea of what demographic is here.
I've had the opposite. No piano lessons but learned some music theory in Jr. high choir and a music for elementary teachers course in college. There was a little bit of basic technique in that course that may have been the equivalent of a few lessons so I did have a point in the right direction at the beginning.


I'll figure it out eventually.
Until then you may want to keep a safe distance.
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[Linked Image]
Re: The ABF Survey 2011 [Re: Sam S] #1698883
06/20/11 07:47 PM
06/20/11 07:47 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,067
Georgia, USA
Sam S Offline OP

3000 Post Club Member
Sam S  Offline OP

3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,067
Georgia, USA
125 people have taken the ABF Survey. Have you? Don't be left out! Link at the top of this thread.

Sam

Re: The ABF Survey 2011 [Re: Sam S] #1698959
06/20/11 09:47 PM
06/20/11 09:47 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 921
North Carolina
O
Opus45 Offline
500 Post Club Member
Opus45  Offline
500 Post Club Member
O

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 921
North Carolina
just took survey myself. very interesting Sam!


Jeff
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Re: The ABF Survey 2011 [Re: Sam S] #1699101
06/21/11 02:09 AM
06/21/11 02:09 AM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 16
California
B
boneitis Offline
Junior Member
boneitis  Offline
Junior Member
B

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 16
California
just wanted to add my thanks here for conducting this survey.

Re: The ABF Survey 2011 [Re: Sam S] #1699430
06/21/11 04:08 PM
06/21/11 04:08 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,907
SoCal
Plowboy Offline

2000 Post Club Member
Plowboy  Offline

2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,907
SoCal
Taken!


Gary
Essex EUP-111 at the mountains
W. Hoffmann T-122 at the beach
Re: The ABF Survey 2011 [Re: Sam S] #1699434
06/21/11 04:13 PM
06/21/11 04:13 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,033
Italy
casinitaly Offline

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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,033
Italy
What leaps off the page for me is that we need to work on encouraging people to participate in the recital!!!



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Re: The ABF Survey 2011 [Re: Sam S] #1699464
06/21/11 05:25 PM
06/21/11 05:25 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 661
Center City, MN
AnthonyB Offline
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AnthonyB  Offline
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Posts: 661
Center City, MN
Done.

Good thing it didn't have any questions regarding the variety of types of pieces/composers work that I play. wink


Roland FP-7 / Pianoteq 4.5.1
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Re: The ABF Survey 2011 [Re: Sam S] #1699471
06/21/11 05:38 PM
06/21/11 05:38 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 110
Slovenia
I
Ina Offline
Full Member
Ina  Offline
Full Member
I

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 110
Slovenia
Thank you, Sam.

Very interesting results. And another motivator for playing the piano... gotta go practicing, not reading the ABF forum smile



Re: The ABF Survey 2011 [Re: Sam S] #1699480
06/21/11 05:52 PM
06/21/11 05:52 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,840
USA
Strings & Wood Offline


Gold member until Dec. 2012
Strings & Wood  Offline


Gold member until Dec. 2012


Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,840
USA
Originally Posted by Sam S
125 people have taken the ABF Survey. Have you? Don't be left out! Link at the top of this thread.

Sam


Yes, I am in. Good work Sam!








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