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What kind of exercises does Dave Frank propose?

lately I've been wanting to play some runs which I have some difficulty playing.

It's part of a method for teaching jazz improvisation. There is a thread here with some students studying from it. The exercise part (one for each lesson) is similar to hanon. He calls it jazz hanons. We do them up and down, transposing into each key. You're supposed to sing along, so it's also aural training.


Here's me doing one of them (yes, I'm that sad):
http://www.box.net/shared/mvjol9ovoh

I believe practicing scales, arpeggios, chords, Hanon, etc is a "waste of time" if you wanna learn music. Well, Hanon certainly is a completely waste of time, while scales, arpeggios and chords, if combined with other musical elements can bring very rewarding results.

Of course to be able to play Jazz and improvise one must be comfortable with all the scales, all the arpeggios and chords, so be sure to have them memorized first. What I would suggest is: spend some time learning - by heart - all the major scales (Major, Harmonic and Melodic Minor, Diminished and Whole-Tone) in every key; some time learning the arpeggios in every key; and some time learning all the 14 basic chord structures in every key. All of that in a kind of non-musical fashion, and only for a few days until you're comfortable with the tools, but without going crazy about speed and this stuff; you only need to be comfortable with the material. After 12 years of piano playing, I believe you're already familiar with those tools, so I'd suggest spending some time only with the 14 chord structures, because they are the most important part of it.

After that, I would apply everything in a musical context. For example: let's say you are learning any new Jazz Standard. Play the scales of every chord with the right hand - play a few different patterns in 8ths, 16ths, triplets - while doing some 2-bar rhythm phrases on the left hand and vice-versa, always following the chord progression and connecting the chords (if you cannot follow it, then play one chord at a time until you are comfortable with the scale and are able to follow the progression); then do the same with the arpeggios, etc. This way you develop the scales, arpeggios and chords; develop hand and hand-mind independence, master the music you are learning thus bringing your improvisation to another level. Of course, first you need to be comfortable with the tools, otherwise you will spend too much time trying to realize which one and how to use them. And start it slow, no matter how slow.

Hanon... seriously, why would you even consider that or any similar approach - Jazz Hanon or any technique exercise for that matter? If you want something for your fingers, why don't you learn all the 15 Bach two-voice Inventions? Actually, a single one of those Inventions learned deeply will do you more good than the whole Hanon book.
Apart from that, learn to play the solos from the guys you like. I wouldn't spend my time practicing technique at all, because the music itself is a technique, especially if you study improvisation and/or learn Classical Music deeply.



Slow it down and practice the run you would like to learn until you are able to play it; there is no better "exercise" than this. Try this: slow down the run; listen to it a lot, until you can sing it slow; increase the speed in steps, always singing it until you can do it at full speed; after you can sing it with the music, try singing it without the music, reducing the volume and see if you can follow it; after you are able to do this with your voice, sit on the piano and do the same work, play it. If you want more work, transpose the run to a few other keys, without writing it down, only using your voice as a guide. Play the first note of the run in a different key and sing the rest; once you can do it, find the notes on the piano and play it on this new key.

What do you think about it?

l.s.

Hanon... seriously, why would you even consider that or any similar approach - Jazz Hanon or any technique exercise for that matter? If you want something for your fingers, why don't you learn all the 15 Bach two-voice Inventions? Actually, a single one of those Inventions learned deeply will do you more good than the whole Hanon book.

“Master your instrument, Master the music, and then forget all that and just play.”

There is no such thing as a "jazz etude" or "jazz hanon". There is only familiarity with the piano, and feeling as natural playing any series of notes as possible.

Personally, and I'm yet to test more seriously this proposition, I am not very enthusiastic about the idea of practicing the scales in a musical context, precisely because I do not want to sound like I'm playing scales. If I'm to practice improvisation, I will be paying more attention to the construction of the melodic line, its relation to the chord, etc. I may think of a scale if some chord tones are outside the key, or if I want a different sound, but I'm not much a fan of chord scale theory in the first place.

I understand Hannon won't do much for musicality, improvisational or melodic skills. I don't think it was meant for that, I was really interested only in technique with this part of my training. To put it another way, I have enough technique to play and improvise at a reasonable level, the main obstacles being musicality, comping, the melodic level of improvisation and all that different kind of "technique." I will certainly devote most of my time to that, but I would also like to be able to express some ideas that require a level of technique I have not yet reached. I do not intend to use any of the technique exercises to learn music, but only as a way to being physically capable of playing the music I learn and imagine doing actual "musical practicing."

While I agree that learning/practicing scales/Hanon will do almost nothing for musicality, it does a whole TON for facility at the piano. After all, Charlie Parker tells us:

Notice the FIRST step is learning your instrument. Think of it like this: One should be as familiar with the piano, the keys, and the ways to play them as a professional basketball player is with a basketball. In my opinion, telling someone scales/exercises aren't that important to practice is like telling that potential athlete they don't really need to practice dribbling - they should just go out and play. Well, I suppose that would work, but it's certainly not the best way.

I understand what you're saying about just learning the tunes as you go along, but I believe that is the slow way. You would have to learn each new technical aspect of a tune each time you learn a new tune. Rather I think it is much easier to learn and become familiar with scales from the beginning, develop a facility with playing the piano, and then learn to recognize when those skills can be utilized when learning your tunes.

Of course to be able to play Jazz and improvise one must be comfortable with all the scales, all the arpeggios and chords, so be sure to have them memorized first. What I would suggest is: spend some time learning - by heart - all the major scales (Major, Harmonic and Melodic Minor, Diminished and Whole-Tone) in every key; some time learning the arpeggios in every key; and some time learning all the 14 basic chord structures in every key. All of that in a kind of non-musical fashion, and only for a few days until you're comfortable with the tools, but without going crazy about speed and this stuff; you only need to be comfortable with the material.

How would you practice scales without sounding like you're playing scales?

Practicing scales in a musical context and practicing improvisation are two different aspects - or topics - of practice. The idea of practicing scales/arpeggios/chords/whatever within a musical context is that 1) you will be getting more and more "intimate" with the material that you would later be using for your improvisation, thus giving the practice of improvisation and the improvisation itself more freedom to be worked with, 2) you will save time by working deeply on exactly what you need at that time, for there is just too much stuff to be worked on and 3) you will avoid mindless practice. I still haven't found a way to cover "everything" - or a lot - with a "technique regimen" of practice. This idea is just to work up the "material" of improvisation so, later on, you will use the rest of your time to practice what really matters - all those topics of improvisation like melodies, melodic lines, phrases, motifs, articulations, etc.

I guess it is pretty much the idea of what you're talking about; we are together on this one.

\=))

What I meant is that I don't want to practice scales in a musical context (for instance comping with the LH) because I do not want my improvisation to sound like I am playing scales.

What I meant is that I don't want to practice scales in a musical context (for instance comping with the LH) because I do not want my improvisation to sound like I am playing scales. What you practice is incorporated into your actual playing, and that's why I aim at keeping this section of robot practicing separate from actual practice. The advantages you point to practicing scales in a musical context still hold, I think, for practicing scales in a mechanical way.

When you improvise, are you able to switch to different scales effortlessly without thinking about it?

You can try this approach
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NehOx1JsuT4&feature=relmfu

But you still have to learn the scales well enough to know where the chord tones are instantly without thought...

First practise the scales till you know them inside out, all the modes of the scale, all the triads that you can get out of the scale, all the many different scale patterns you can use, as many intervals and melodies as possible, in as many different dynamics articulations and rhythms as you can (and sing along while you are doing it to improve your ear).You can think of this as building up a stock of ideas to play when it is time to improvise.

Then, when it is time to improvise, just forget all that stuff let your mind free and just have fun with whatever happens. Don't try to force out the things your were practicing but don't worry if some of them come out anyway.
In my opinion we all need both if these approaches, a methodical skill gaining approach and then a letting go creating in the moment approach. They work together to create good improvisation.

The more interesting the things you experiment with ultimately the more interesting your playing will be. If you just do scales up and down it will not be so interesting as if you play many more of the thousands of different possible note combinations.