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#1691841 - 06/07/11 07:08 AM Synthology Ivory 2 on MacBook Pro....  
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 36
stavroski Offline
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stavroski  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 36
Liverpool, UK
Guys,

Looking for anyone with experience of running Ivory 2 on a bog standard 2011 MacBook Pro 13" with Snow Leopard and Logic Studio 9 (i5 processor, 4GB ram, 320GB 5400rpm drive). The Ivory 2 sounds amazing, however I'm quite concerned that the samples won't load and stream adequately from the disk for live playing and so am wanting to find out before splashing out on this add on. I know my MacBook has the new thunderbolt interface (apparrently up to 10GB/sec io) and I was considering waiting until some HDD's become available on that to use that for my sample library storage. In the meantime, if anyone with a similar setup has any experience of how it will work, I would love to know how you found it...... I know it will vary depending upon the type of music played, however for the purposes of this post, I play a lot of fairly straightforward but classical sounding material where sometimes a lot of polyphony is needed, especially with the damper held down.

Cheers

Stavroski


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#1692464 - 06/08/11 09:31 AM Re: Synthology Ivory 2 on MacBook Pro.... [Re: stavroski]  
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jazzonebyone Offline
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sc
My experience doesn't apply exactly, but here it is.
I've been using Ivory(I) with a pre-Intel Powerbook. Ivory would not stream well off of the original 5400 rpm internal drive. I changed the internal drive to a 7200 rpm unit and had no more problems.


Baldwin L - Rhodes 73
Yamaha P250 - Nord NP88
#1692473 - 06/08/11 10:00 AM Re: Synthology Ivory 2 on MacBook Pro.... [Re: stavroski]  
Joined: Apr 2007
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CyberGene Online content
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CyberGene  Online Content
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Sofia, Bulgaria
Synthogy, not Synthology.


https://myspace.com/evgenykumanov/music/songs
Currently: Kawai ES7 -> Garritan CFX Lite
Previously: Kawai MP6, Kawai CA63, Roland RD-700SX, Roland FP-5, Yamaha P90, Korg SP-200, Casio CDP-100
#1692536 - 06/08/11 12:42 PM Re: Synthology Ivory 2 on MacBook Pro.... [Re: stavroski]  
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ChrisA Offline
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ChrisA  Offline
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Do the standard "free" piano samples strem off the disk OK? Ivory does not stream the bits off the dis any faster nor does it stream more bits. The amount of data read from the disk depends only on the polyphony NOT on the number of layers or the size of the library.

The Macbook should be able to run Ivory and several over audio plug ins all at the same time.

This seems to be a common misconception that large sample libraries some how means that more data well be read off the disk during performance. Not true at all. Say there are 50 sample layers per note. that is a huge amount of data but when you play a note only one of those 50 are read off the disk, the other 49 are not accessed at all. Same as if there were three sample layers, then one is processed and two are not.



Originally Posted by stavroski
Guys,

Looking for anyone with experience of running Ivory 2 on a bog standard 2011 MacBook Pro 13" with Snow Leopard and Logic Studio 9 (i5 processor, 4GB ram, 320GB 5400rpm drive). The Ivory 2 sounds amazing, however I'm quite concerned that the samples won't load and stream adequately from the disk for live playing and so am wanting to find out before splashing out on this add on. I know my MacBook has the new thunderbolt interface (apparrently up to 10GB/sec io) and I was considering waiting until some HDD's become available on that to use that for my sample library storage. In the meantime, if anyone with a similar setup has any experience of how it will work, I would love to know how you found it...... I know it will vary depending upon the type of music played, however for the purposes of this post, I play a lot of fairly straightforward but classical sounding material where sometimes a lot of polyphony is needed, especially with the damper held down.

Cheers

Stavroski

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#1692558 - 06/08/11 01:19 PM Re: Synthology Ivory 2 on MacBook Pro.... [Re: stavroski]  
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MacMacMac Offline
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MacMacMac  Offline
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Indeed. And with disk caching, much of the data (once accessed) will be memory-resident ... and very fast.

#1693394 - 06/10/11 05:55 AM Re: Synthology Ivory 2 on MacBook Pro.... [Re: stavroski]  
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Posts: 36
stavroski Offline
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stavroski  Offline
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Posts: 36
Liverpool, UK
Thanks for the responses guys.

In the end, after a mail from the support people at Synthogy (see I got the spelling right at last :)), they recommended an external HDD for samples. As I already exprienced a slowdown in performance from my MacBook since installing my EW Symphonic Orchestra Gold, I think this is a sensible way to go anyway to ensure the system HDD stays clutter free. I got an external 7200rpm firewire 800, and this should do the trick nicely for all sample libraries according the support people.

Anyway, contrary to what I was looking for, after spending the last day or two deciding about Ivory 2 and listening to the demos of the newest sampled pianos out there, I decided against it and went with the Galaxy Vintage D. I think the interface looks really slick on that, the options seem fab and the sound of the piano speaks for itself I believe. Although, that's personal preference I'm sure.

I will let you know how I get on.....

stavroski


--------------------
Hohner HP-128 Upright
Kurzweil PC1X
Yamaha EX5
Roland XV3080
Muse Receptor Rev.C
East West Bosendorfer 290 amongst others....
#2036231 - 02/20/13 05:02 AM Re: Synthology Ivory 2 on MacBook Pro.... [Re: stavroski]  
Joined: Feb 2013
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Albatrossone Offline
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Albatrossone  Offline
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Hi there

I've read lots of posts and articles saying a Macbook Pro will run Ivory II fine. But nothing on polyphony and I was wondering what people have been able to achieve?

I've found that to really get a level of realism and be able to hear all the echos and reverberation like you would get in an acoustic, the polyphony needs to be at least 300.

With Ivory on an internal SSD and a dual core i7 macbook pro, would I be able to achieive this?

Cheers
Nick

Last edited by Albatrossone; 02/20/13 05:03 AM.
#2036240 - 02/20/13 06:32 AM Re: Synthology Ivory 2 on MacBook Pro.... [Re: Albatrossone]  
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Macy Offline
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The polyphony will depend on the access time of the hard drive and the interface. If you use an external drive with a Macbook Pro it should be firewire 800, USB 3, or Thunderbolt. I'd highly recommend an SSD for access time based on my experience and measurements. A 7200 rpm drive is borderline slow with high polyphony on the latest Ivory II American D piano.

Where did you get the 300 voice polyphony idea? Was that from actually using Ivory II (if so, which of its pianos)? Or from using some other software piano. Be advised that polyphony is not counted the same way on all software pianos. In any event, I think 300 voices is overkill for Ivory II. I believe about 100 voices is adequate. You should get 250 or more voices with an SSD in my experience with Ivory II.

Here is a link to a detailed post I wrote on this subject.





Macy

CVP-409GP, Garritan CFX, Vintage D, Ivory II GP's & American Concert D, Pianoteq, True Keys American D, Ravenscroft 275, Garritan Authorized Steinway, Alicia's Keys, EWQL Pianos, MainStage, iPad Pro/forScore/PageFlip Cicada, Custom Mac MIDI/Audio Software Design, Macs Everywhere
#2036280 - 02/20/13 08:33 AM Re: Synthology Ivory 2 on MacBook Pro.... [Re: Macy]  
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Albatrossone Offline
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Albatrossone  Offline
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Thanks for the link - will check it out. 300 is based on me playing and thats what I needed to set it to so I didn't max it out. This is using both the Italian Grand and American D.

I want to be able to hear all the decays and reverberation that I should be hearing when playing. Yes Ivory is very good at disguising disappearing notes if this is set lower - but the instrument feels much less rich and full without keeping the count high. All the decaying notes become a rich swell of sound that you need to use the pedal to control. An acoustic piano is much like that. With lower voice counts - certainly 100 and below you don;t particularly need to worry about overpedaling because this swell is quickly damped by the polyphony limit.

Last edited by Albatrossone; 02/20/13 08:35 AM.
#2036297 - 02/20/13 09:08 AM Re: Synthology Ivory 2 on MacBook Pro.... [Re: Albatrossone]  
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gvfarns Offline
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Originally Posted by Albatrossone
Thanks for the link - will check it out. 300 is based on me playing and thats what I needed to set it to so I didn't max it out. This is using both the Italian Grand and American D.


This baffles me profoundly. As Macy says, different software products measure polyphony differently but unless you are layering many instruments my imagination does not permit me to see how you could use 300 notes of polyphony in a real-world context. You might need to clear the pedal once in a while.

#2036343 - 02/20/13 10:44 AM Re: Synthology Ivory 2 on MacBook Pro.... [Re: gvfarns]  
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Albatrossone Offline
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Albatrossone  Offline
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Well there are two reasons for wanting it high. The first reason is the kind of swell effect I mention above.

The second you actually touch on yourself and is probably more important. I want the behaviour of the pedal as realistic as possible so I don't lose any technique. With low polyphony using the pedal properly isn't as important because the notes disappear anyway to leave space for new ones. I don't want to have my playing on an acoustic piano sound like a muddy mess because I've become used to overpedalling on Ivory.

So I want the effect so I can get better at controlling and limiting it. Does that make sense?


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