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Re: Honest Opinion on Hailun Baby Grand [Re: Norbert] #1685002
05/26/11 02:08 PM
05/26/11 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Norbert
Quote
However, if they DO develop a similar track record to more "reputable" companies such as Yamaha and Kawai you can bet that the price will also be comparable to a Yamaha or


Very true and well said!

Norbert wink


I'm not so sure that a good track record will lead to comparable prices. The price differential is largely due to differences in cost of labor and materials.


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My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.
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Re: Honest Opinion on Hailun Baby Grand [Re: Two!Cubed] #1685069
05/26/11 04:13 PM
05/26/11 04:13 PM
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Out of the thousands(probably tens of thousands) of dealer posts about makes they sell, has there ever been even one that said the slightest negative thing? One that was not highly complimentary?

For owners of a particular piano make other than some inexpensive upright they bought/inherited as a first piano, I'd say that "only" about 98% of the comments are positive. Some have made many hundreds of posts about their own pianos. I think the usefulness of the comments are inversely proportional to the number of comments made.

The really useful comments are from those who can really be objective.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 05/26/11 04:14 PM.
Re: Honest Opinion on Hailun Baby Grand [Re: pianoloverus] #1685166
05/26/11 06:54 PM
05/26/11 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
For owners of a particular piano make other than some inexpensive upright they bought/inherited as a first piano, I'd say that "only" about 98% of the comments are positive. Some have made many hundreds of posts about their own pianos. I think the usefulness of the comments are inversely proportional to the number of comments made.

The really useful comments are from those who can really be objective.
Always there are noted exceptions, but most people who play any decent piano derive a disproportionate amount of joy when compared to objective factors of quality (which is another reason everyone should upgrade to a decent piano smile ). Industry wide, pianos tend to be under-serviced, but in my experience, true warranty issues are very low and even lower now than what I saw a decade ago.

Most of the industry dirty laundry is related to people and not fit to print. Issues of disclosure (who makes what, where) arise because of negative selling from competition can make a brand vulnerable to negative stereotypes and misinformation.

In this forum, what most people are really asking for is perspective about a potential decision. These are the opinions of owners, retailers, performers, and technicians. The only real objective information is size and color.

The people who work with a product everyday will have the most expertise. They will also be the owners and retailers who have a stake in the game. That Catch-22 is inevitable once you realize the few attempts at industry objectivity failed to be sustainable. The Piano Buyer, which I think has hugely positive information for consumers, also has to be advertiser friendly. So is Piano World. You won't see any negative information originating from the operators of these overall positive forces.

Plover, it is your right to keep sprinkling those grains of salt for every dealer teaspoon of sugar. I prefer when they stay grains of salt rather than personal stuff that sometimes happens. I can say that because I've had my run-ins in the past but I try to be a good Piano World citizen.

If I knew a better way to both inform and keep balance, I would suggest that every time I posted.


Sam Bennett
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Re: Honest Opinion on Hailun Baby Grand [Re: pianoloverus] #1685184
05/26/11 07:28 PM
05/26/11 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
I think the usefulness of the comments are [*is*] inversely proportional to the number of comments made.

The really useful comments are from those who can really be objective.


Your formula does seem to work out in your case. You've made many *contributions* to Haiun threads without ever saying a blessed thing about the pianos.

I guess the pinnacle of *objectivity* would be an admission of having no experience with the piano under discussion. laugh


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Re: Honest Opinion on Hailun Baby Grand [Re: PianoWorksATL] #1685189
05/26/11 07:32 PM
05/26/11 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by PianoWorksATL

In this forum, what most people are really asking for is perspective about a potential decision. These are the opinions of owners, retailers, performers, and technicians. The only real objective information is size and color.
I think it's mostly the way dealers choose to express themselves.

Some state their opinions as if they were black and white facts and do so with endless repetition. Some give the impression that their only objective for looking at the latest threads is to find one where they can advertise.

I do think that there are other dealers who are far more nuanced, regularly talk about brands they do not sell(in a positive way) and a wide variety of other piano related topics, and express themsleves in a way that indicates they are being as objective as a dealer can be and genuinely want to be helpful.

When an owner (unfortunately very occasionally at PW)mentions at least something slightly negative about their piano along with all the positive, I think their opinion is more valuable and credible. IMO when an owner makes literally hundreds of posts praising the piano make they own, it goes beyond pride in their piano(which is good) and appears more like an extreme need to congratulate themselves on their choice.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 05/26/11 07:37 PM.
Re: Honest Opinion on Hailun Baby Grand [Re: turandot] #1685197
05/26/11 07:43 PM
05/26/11 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by turandot
Your formula does seem to work out in your case. You've made many *contributions* to Haiun threads without ever saying a blessed thing about the pianos.
This has nothing to do with what I said would make someone objective.

Originally Posted by turandot
I guess the pinacle of *objectivity* would be an admission of having no experience with the piano under discussion. laugh
No, not at all despite your sarcasm.

Re: Honest Opinion on Hailun Baby Grand [Re: pianoloverus] #1685205
05/26/11 07:51 PM
05/26/11 07:51 PM
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Plover,

Don't get sore!. I was only joking. You opinions of Hailun pianos mean the world to me. By the way, what are they?

laugh



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Re: Honest Opinion on Hailun Baby Grand [Re: turandot] #1685212
05/26/11 08:02 PM
05/26/11 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by turandot
Plover,

Don't get sore!. I was only joking. You opinions of Hailun pianos mean the world to me. By the way, what are they?

laugh
Hard to express yourself without being sarcastic?

Last edited by pianoloverus; 05/26/11 08:02 PM.
Re: Honest Opinion on Hailun Baby Grand [Re: Two!Cubed] #1685233
05/26/11 08:47 PM
05/26/11 08:47 PM
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Surrey, B.C.
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Quote
Your opinions of Hailun pianos mean the world to me. By the way, what are they?


People who readily have an opinion about 'makes' are not always the best when it comes to assessing the comparative value of individual models.

Something shoppers still seem to do best themselves.

It often is the very essence of trying pianos in direct comparison to each other in today's market.

Wholesale judgements for or 'against' entire brands is better left with those who do not appreciate the difference.

Or know....

Norbert

Last edited by Norbert; 05/26/11 08:58 PM.

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Re: Honest Opinion on Hailun Baby Grand [Re: Norbert] #1685455
05/27/11 10:15 AM
05/27/11 10:15 AM
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pianoworksATL
The people who work with a product everyday will have the most expertise. They will also be the owners and retailers who have a stake in the game. That Catch-22 is inevitable once you realize the few attempts at industry objectivity failed to be sustainable. The Piano Buyer, which I think has hugely positive information for consumers, also has to be advertiser friendly. So is Piano World. You won't see any negative information originating from the operators of these overall positive forces.



pianoloverus
I think it's mostly the way dealers choose to express themselves.

Some state their opinions as if they were black and white facts and do so with endless repetition. Some give the impression that their only objective for looking at the latest threads is to find one where they can advertise.


I'm not sure anyone other than a moderator should be scrutinizing and critiquing the way that people express themselves. When the same questions are asked again and again, the answers tend to be repetitious. There are only so many ways to write that people looking for advice should also trust their own sense of tone and touch. Nonetheless, I do find usual dealer posts come up short on specific information.

The question asked here is an opinion of the Hailun 151, 161, and 178 in relation to each other. Two consumer members, Hop and Rotom, have spoken to that. Maybe their opinions are not objective, but at least they tried to address the specific question with a specific answer.

Dealers selling Chinese usually concern themselves with validating the brand and offering reassurance to those cautious about its origin. Comments such as....

a leading music teacher in our area has chosen a ********* for student concerts

to show its seriousness, ********** factory has hired noted European designer ********* to redesign its pianos

the Chinese are to be taken seriously. *Smart * shoppers are starting to take notice

It's great banng for the buck

We have placed two ********** grands in area churches


....do not address the specific questions usually asked.

I understand that dealers of a brand do not wish to step on toes by making favorable comparisons of their horses to those of others (except when the targets are frontrunners Yamaha and Steinway), but here, where the request is for differences between 3 grands from the same company, I think dealers could do a little better than brand-building.





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Re: Honest Opinion on Hailun Baby Grand [Re: turandot] #1685461
05/27/11 10:25 AM
05/27/11 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by turandot

I'm not sure anyone other than a moderator should be scrutinizing and critiquing the way that people express themselves.
There have certainly been thousands and probably tens of thousands of PW posts that do just that on the Piano Forum and the the other PW forums.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 05/27/11 10:27 AM.
Re: Honest Opinion on Hailun Baby Grand [Re: Two!Cubed] #1685473
05/27/11 11:01 AM
05/27/11 11:01 AM
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I think a major part of the problem is the same few dealers and owners interjecting the same spin over and over again.

It is especially bothersome when those interjections make up the overwhelming majority of that individuals posts.


Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.
Re: Honest Opinion on Hailun Baby Grand [Re: Two!Cubed] #1685482
05/27/11 11:11 AM
05/27/11 11:11 AM
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From our experience, the Hailun 178 is by far the strongest of the three. It is of course also the largest. The real problem is that only very few readers here are personally familiar with all three models. Then again those who are, are often dealers. Next,those who are dealers are quickly sideswept by those who have a habitual affliction to discredit anything these guys say.

So, here is my solution:

Let people speak who have tested these pianos and can offer some kind of opinion. Basically this is the way it should be in the first place and that's the advice I would give if someone would call me. Play as many pianos as possible and compare them to each other. The best one wins. It's real simple.

Problem is only that some people here don't like to have certain pianos *win* or at least get some attention often brought up by OPs themselves.

These critics live in permanent denial that the plaette of choices has greatly increased over the years.

But that's an entirely different matter and of little if any value for those seriously shopping around in today's market.

Norbert smile

Last edited by Norbert; 05/27/11 11:20 AM.

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Re: Honest Opinion on Hailun Baby Grand [Re: Two!Cubed] #1685490
05/27/11 11:20 AM
05/27/11 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Norbert
Play as many pianos as possible and compare them to each other. The best one wins. It's real simple.

I don't see how any piano buying advice could be better than this... except maybe "play as many pianos as possible within the same price range. The best one wins."

Just my .02.

Rick


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Re: Honest Opinion on Hailun Baby Grand [Re: Two!Cubed] #1685491
05/27/11 11:22 AM
05/27/11 11:22 AM
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Quote
I don't see how any piano buying advice could be better than this... except maybe "play as many pianos as possible within the same price range. The best one wins."



Except yesterday at my birthday - all pianos were free!

[Glad it's over...]

Norbert grin grin


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Re: Honest Opinion on Hailun Baby Grand [Re: Two!Cubed] #1686367
05/29/11 01:37 AM
05/29/11 01:37 AM
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I appologize for being out of the range of the question, but here's my 2 cents. I am not a good piano player but I appreciate good pianos and know what I like when I play it.

Yesterday I played 3 Hailun models - 161, 178 and 198.

161 - Impressive for it's size. I've never been very impressed by grands under 6'.
178 - A very impressive, pleasing piano for it's size. I could get along with it very well.
198 - Beautiful piano, definately a step up from the smaller models. I still prefer the equivelently sized Petrof sound and feel, but the Hailun would be my choice for economic reasons, and I know I would be completely satisfied with it.

Last edited by MrMagic; 05/29/11 01:38 AM.

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