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Higs gain +12dB is by default? it's like 4 times boosted... in my FP-4 (without F) it is zero'ed.

Yeah, I guess it's wrong, but it was set that way when I checked it the first time.

By the way, the more I play on my FP-4F, the more I'm loving it. I was probably expecting too much from a DP at this price range. It sounds ten times better than my old trusty Roland EM-20, but I got so familiar by that sound—because of it hating it as well—that it might be the reason for not accepting this change of sound, the first day I had the FP-4F at home; and a good set of external speakers will probably do wonders.

Thoughts did go round my mind, though: couldn't I've gone for the FP-7F, because of the better on board speakers? Or the affordable, but quality F-110? Then I realize that I would've had similar thoughts if I'd bought the F-110: wouldn't it have been better to go for the FP-4F? These are things you always come across even having checked countless of times in stores.

I had the chance to play an FP-4F in a store today using inbuilt speakers and next to a FP-7F. I would just confirm that the speakers really do seem to let it down compared to the 7F, but maybe it's OK or comparable, using the main SN piano, through external speakers or headphones. I thought the 7F speakers were quite good, and yet have seen criticism of them elsewhere in the forum.

As a 18 month now beginner, I thought the keyboard was fine, but again in comparison to the 7F I can see why some people say it's a bit slow or sluggish.

Both keyboards seemed to have less clunk or thump than I was expecting from Roland.

OT, I did like the 7F though.

As I mentioned earlier, I have high quality headphones. I just feel, that just like with using headphones playing electric guitar, it feels a bit off, which is strange, as when you hear guitar in a mix of a song, it sounds pretty good, but then again, my mixing skills are at a beginner's stage.

The onboard speakers are indeed not decent enough. They sound like it's covered with something. Unlike you, however, I'm just starting with piano. I have played on some grands and uprights at the Conservatory, but I don't feel I've done it often enough to be able to distinguish action clearly. I felt the 7F had a lighter action. After several days trying out my 4F, I notice that it's hard to play very fast repeated notes, maybe even impossible at not that of a fast rate already, but other than that I don't feel there would be a problem.

I've played the RD-300NX (same keybed as FP-4F as I understand) and now have a Roland FP-4 (the old one) at home. I tried the RD300NX at length in a local music store, with headphones. I thought it sounded great ... but the action seemed to bottom out too hard for me. Roland's RD700 actions have felt that way to me for quite some time, both previous model and the new one. This wears on my hands after a while, and I knew the new NX would spell trouble for me down the line.

I have a usually-dormant chronic injury/disability (see my recent thread about thoracic outlet if you're so inclined) but have no problem playing for hours and hours on acoustic pianos ... really never had any problems on any acoustic I've ever come across. Digital pianos, OTOH ... anyway, I bought a previous-generation FP-4 based on my comparison of actions on the RD300NX and GX and recall loving the GX. To me, it really feels great and connects with the sound. However, now I am experiencing pain, but I think that's unique to me.

I've heard other pianists, including Jazz+, say they prefer the action on the previous FP4 over the new one. And the reason I am restricting my evaluations to the FP4s (as opposed to FP7s) is, that is the weight range of keyboard that I can schlep to gigs. I'm petite and don't want to schlep more than, say 37lbs. So I make the compromise in feel. I have acoustics at home to practice on.

i have tried both fp-4f and fp-7f again today in local music store.

fp-4f's speaker is not as good as that of 7f, the sound come out of fp-4f is muddy, like covering several cloth on normal speaker, and the action, is better than fp-4 a lot, but still not as good as that of 7f, keys of 4f are really a bit slow type, 7f have lighter key, but it really provide a real feel of piano key, this is difficult to describe, people who are interested need to compare the two on their own, for the small price difference, i will definitely go for fp-7f, if mobility is not a big issue, the key feel and the speaker worth the extra IMO

johnmok ----------

Since you have tried out both the fp-4f and 7f I'll try asking the question again (I haven't been able to try out the 7f). Does the 7f have a hard bottoming out effect when pressing down the keys like the older 7 does? I'm guessing that players that have tried out the newer 7f haven't compared it to the older 7.

geekguri,

Your recent thread on Thoracic Outlet Syndrome (TOS) is of great interest to me. Having sustained "deQuervain tendinitis" in both wrists several years ago has heightened my awareness of the issue of wrist pain, as well as alertness for potential problems that may lead to wrist pain. For my "deQuervain tendinitis", all kinds of physical therapies could not rid myself of my wrist pain. Eventually I resorted to taking steroid shot. Fortunately, the steroid shot worked for both wrists. However, my hand surgeon has warned me that, at the wrist, I cannot take more than 2 steroid shots in my lifetime.

As I prepare to learn to play piano, having an appropriate keyboard that will not give me nagging wrist pain from piano practice is very much in my mind. For this reason, I have paid quite a bit of attention to the keyboard action when I browse through the communications in this forum. In an earlier thread, a student, at the advise of his concert pianist mother, chose the Roland FP4 because it seems to have a "softer bottoming" (not a quote) than FP7. I suspect that you might have chosen FP4 also for the same reason.

Question: Did you also test keyboards from Yamaha and Kawai in your last round of testing keyboards? Sound quality aside, would you have chosen a Yamaha or a Kawai keyboard that has softer bottoming?

.

I would love to get the FP-4F just because of my budget, but if the sound from the in-built speakers are as horrible as on F-120 then I might just save up some more and get the FP-7F instead. Speakers on top DO matter and FP-4F has them inside or below the keys, not sure which.

I agree with johnmok. The FP-7F is SO much better than the FP-4F, for the relatively small price difference, that there is no reason to buy an FP-4F except for low weight. And if that's the issue, unless you needs some of the Roland's non-piano features, I'd rather have a Numa Piano, which weighs far less, and, to my ears, sounds better. A bit cheaper, too. I'm not thrilled with the Numa action, I find it sluggish, but while it is different, I wouldn't say the FP-4F action is really any better. (But if you need built in speakers, the Numa does not have them.)

I have a Numa Piano but would advise waiting for the Casio PX-150/350 slated for stores this fall. Only 1 lb heavier than the Numa and could turn out to be much better in every way.

Or the Yamaha P-105. But things that don't exist always sound better than things that do. ;-)

Funny how we all have different preferences when it comes to action. The Numa Piano sounds great, but the action is the worst I've ever come across. I find the action in my Roland RD300NX (same as FP4-F) to be way better than the Numa.

Yeah, it is subjective. While the actions are different from each other, I find them about equally far from ideal. So as long as they meet a minimum playability threshold, I figure, if I'm not going to really like either of them, I might as well pick the model that weighs less! Especially since, in this case, I think it also sounds better. Though that's subjective too!

The onboard speakers on slab pianos are varying degrees of bad IMO and probably shouldn't be used as a basis to decide which one to buy.

Even if you don't like the sound from wearing headphones, your budget would be better spent on speakers if you have the space to spare.

Slightly OT: Yes, I struggle with the action on my Numa, particularly in respect of AP sounds. I find I spend too much time being conscious of the action during performances. I've tried the "N" and "H" velocity settings, as well as various incarnations of the user programmable curve, and never quite achieved a good balance. ("N" loses the lowest velocity layers; "H" requires the keys to be pummeled to achieve an adequate response; user curve often results in volume jumps.) My FP-4's Alpha action is better than the Numa's Fatar! The Nord Piano's action is an improvement, but still lags behind most modern actions by a significant margin, IMO. My vote still lies with PHAIII - but I'd like to compare it to RH2.

I wonder if you could address this with the MIDI Solutions Velocity Converter.

http://www.midisolutions.com/prodvel.htm

i.e. turn Local Off, and send MIDI Out to the Velocity Converter, and the output of that back into the Numa's MIDI In, using the VC to come up with the curve you want.


A number of people like the FP-4 action better than the FP-4F, too!

I expect that would work. What I've noticed, however, is that the MIDI Solutions products I use require the older 5-volt standard to work unaided. When I drive my Plugiator from the Numa Organ, I have to attach a MIDI Solutions Power Adapter in chain with the MIDI Solutions Event Processor (to filter out unwanted MIDI messages), and have an additional wall-wart to supply external power. To have to go through all that with the piano as well just to get a better curve is a step too far for me. I think I need to sit down for a couple of hours and attempt to get the built-in user curve set up a little better - but it's very hit-and-miss (more miss, actually).

[/quote]
Yeah, it is subjective. While the actions are different from each other, I find them about equally far from ideal. So as long as they meet a minimum playability threshold, I figure, if I'm not going to really like either of them, I might as well pick the model that weighs less! Especially since, in this case, I think it also sounds better. Though that's subjective too! [/quote]

I also think it sounds better on mediocre sound systems, but this weekend I played a gig with my Roland on a high end PA system (forgot the brand) and the piano sound truly was amazing! In this case I didn't miss the Numa AP sound at all...