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Re: Roland FP4F
theJourney #1680112 05/18/11 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by theJourney

Hmmm. Don't shortchange yourself, James. After all, you were very quick to correct us that in your opinion, or that of Kawai, it made more sense to compare the MP6 with the RD300xX and the FP-4F with the ES6. Given your earlier reference to specific product characteristics, surely you must have based this correction on more than just your personal auditioning or a wild guess...

Feel free to tell us what your really think...if your contract with Kawai corporate actually permits you to do this...


I'd say it's common sense to compare similar instruments with each other. The MP6 and RD-300NX are first and foremost, stage pianos. The FP-4F is not a stage piano really. It's more of a portable home piano, as is the case with the ES6. I've played both MP6 and RD-300NX and the MP6 blows the RD-300NX out of the water. The action of the MP6 felt nearly as good as the PHA III on the RD-700NX.


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Re: Roland FP4F
PianoZac #1680123 05/18/11 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by ZacharyForbes
I'd say it's common sense to compare similar instruments with each other. The MP6 and RD-300NX are first and foremost, stage pianos.


I don't disagree with you. But, on the other hand, I was not the one suggesting making a decision between upgrading an FP-4 to an FP4-F and an MP6...that is what I meant by saying that the only segmentation that matters is what happens in the consumer's head, not in some corporate marketing conference room.

Originally Posted by voxpops
Sounds like the Kawai MP6 has these lighter-weight Rolands licked in terms of the action. However, there is a weight premium for the Kawai. So far, what I've heard put me off upgrading my FP4 to one of the new Rolands.


Originally Posted by ZacharyForbes
The FP-4F is not a stage piano really. It's more of a portable home piano, as is the case with the ES6.

You could say so.
Someone else doing a different kind of stage work could say something else.
What matters to you matters to you.
What matters to someone else matters to someone else.

Originally Posted by ZacharyForbes

I've played both MP6 and RD-300NX and the MP6 blows the RD-300NX out of the water. The action of the MP6 felt nearly as good as the PHA III on the RD-700NX.

There is one thing that I have discovered to be true during the past months of auditioning digital pianos:

For those of us not looking to be spending more time on our kit than on our music, it doesn't make sense to try to artificially separate the keyboard performance from the sound engine performance. You need to look at the total performance of the instrument.

Having said that, I would be hard pressed to actually decide to buy a RD300NX, an FP4-F or an MP6. Too many compromises.

Re: Roland FP4F
PianoZac #1680129 05/18/11 01:24 PM
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Zachary, although it's not really billed as a "stage piano," I actually use my FP-4 as one. It's really light and has a "good enough" sound engine to fit in with a couple big bands and several quartets I work with. And after droppng off my cart a few times, I'll also say it's pretty durable. Now - that being said - like you I'm always looking for something better.


Yamaha CP4, Kawai CA93, Yamaha MODX8, EV ZXA1
Re: Roland FP4F
theJourney #1680153 05/18/11 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by theJourney


There is one thing that I have discovered to be true during the past months of auditioning digital pianos:

For those of us not looking to be spending more time on our kit than on our music, it doesn't make sense to try to artificially separate the keyboard performance from the sound engine performance. You need to look at the total performance of the instrument.

Having said that, I would be hard pressed to actually decide to buy a RD300NX, an FP4-F or an MP6. Too many compromises.


No question there, but overall, for any serious piano player, I'd say how well the action connects to its sound engine, and how dynamic the action allows one to play is vitally important. Because most modern DPs allow for the use as a midi controller, sound seems to be falling to second in terms of what's important for the performing piano player. To me, the of the above options, the MP6 has the least amount of compromises.

*Off Topic*
For example, I had the RD-700GXF/RD-700NX (too much like the RD-700GXF to keep) and RD-300GX before deciding on going with the Nords. I chose the Nord because of the weight, sound, and flexibility. The action connects wonderfully to the sound, but lacks in feel to the Kawai/Yamaha/Rolands. However, because I had a grand to practice on, action was not as important. Now that my friend is taking his grand back to his studio, I'm on the hunt for a DP that behaves closest to a grand piano which led me to the CA93 and AvantGrand N1. Don't have the space or money for a grand worth keeping for a long time, so am settling with the next best thing.



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Re: Roland FP4F
Coker #1680157 05/18/11 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Coker
Dewster, I was thinking of this as a monitor and not as sound reinforcement.

I was too, though monitors that can play loud can sometimes be used as a PA in very small venues.

Originally Posted by Coker
I'm always into portability, which is why a combination music stand / monitor appealed to me.

Yes. I'm looking to add some monitor speakers to our RD-700NX and Quik-Lok W550 stand and am trying to figure out the best way to do this. The speaker shelves they make for the stand seem less than ideal. A squat speaker bar over the back of the DP with a music rest on top makes a lot of sense.

Re: Roland FP4F
theJourney #1680281 05/18/11 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by theJourney
Hmmm. Don't shortchange yourself, James.


Thank you!

Originally Posted by theJourney
Feel free to tell us what your really think...if your contract with Kawai corporate actually permits you to do this...


Well, most of the time I try to provide an honest, objective opinion about the instruments being discussed on this forum. However, I tend to shy away from making simplistic 'product X is better than product Y' comparisons (especially if I have no direct playing experience with the instruments being discussed).

Experience has also taught me to avoid highlighting the negative characteristics of competitors' models, although this is based on my desire to maintain a professional, respectful attitude, rather than any suggested corporate restrictions imposed by my employer.

Of course, if you have any reason to doubt my honesty, or the validity of my posts on PW, you're most welcome to send a private message and we'll have a nice chat.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

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Re: Roland FP4F
Kawai James #1680291 05/18/11 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Kawai James

Well, most of the time I try to provide an honest, objective opinion about the instruments being discussed on this forum. However, I tend to shy away from making simplistic 'product X is better than product Y' comparisons (especially if I have no direct playing experience with the instruments being discussed).

Experience has also taught me to avoid highlighting the negative characteristics of competitors' models, although this is based on my desire to maintain a professional, respectful attitude, rather than any suggested corporate restrictions imposed by my employer.

Of course, if you have any reason to doubt my honesty, or the validity of my posts on PW, you're most welcome to send a private message and we'll have a nice chat.

Kind regards,
James
x


Off topic, but I'd also like to add that having seen a lot of manufacturers employees on different forums for different types of products, your approach is unique and refreshing. I was really caught off guard when I first started reading your posts here. You appear to be honest and still professional and I've never felt like you were ever shilling something. That's certainly made your opinion valuable to me.


Re: Roland FP4F
theJourney #1680598 05/19/11 01:19 AM
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Originally Posted by theJourney

Cue from stage left: boosterism personified, running noisily into the field of spectators in a loud Kawai jersey, swearing and with fists a'waving but with absolutely no contribution to the discussion.


Good self-portrayal, but you need to replace "Kawai jersey" with "Anti-Kawai jersey".


<~ don't test forever - play and enjoy! ~>
Re: Roland FP4F
Lefty Chev #1680720 05/19/11 07:35 AM
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I'll second that. I appreciate KJ's contributions to this site.


Yamaha CP4, Kawai CA93, Yamaha MODX8, EV ZXA1
Re: Roland FP4F
mwf #1680775 05/19/11 09:30 AM
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The FP4 is indeed a stage piano, it's easier to transport from stage to stage than the heavier models.

The problem I have with the new FP-4F is that they keys are slow.

Re: Roland FP4F
mwf #1683061 05/23/11 11:21 AM
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Anyone know where the manual is online? I've tried the obvious, Roland, places.

Re: Roland FP4F
mwf #1683063 05/23/11 11:23 AM
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I don't think Roland have released it yet. Could be any day now.


"you don't need to have been a rabbit in order to become a veterinarian"

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Re: Roland FP4F
mwf #1683083 05/23/11 12:04 PM
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IMO, the FP7F has very light keys compared to let's say a Yamaha P155 (which I had before). I'm suprised that the FP4F is not equally light but maybe that means it will just have a normal weight similar to the Yammies.

Perhaps someone who's actually touched these can compare.





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Re: Roland FP4F
Jazz+ #1683505 05/24/11 01:08 AM
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Jazz, Is FP-4F significantly better than FP4? We have FP7F at home, but daughter may go away to boarding school later this year where she can have her own piano.

I'm thinking of getting FP4 or FP4F for her.

Originally Posted by Jazz+
The FP4 is indeed a stage piano, it's easier to transport from stage to stage than the heavier models.

The problem I have with the new FP-4F is that they keys are slow.

Re: Roland FP4F
suniil #1683585 05/24/11 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by suniil
Jazz, Is FP-4F significantly better than FP4? We have FP7F at home, but daughter may go away to boarding school later this year where she can have her own piano.

I'm thinking of getting FP4 or FP4F for her.


If you only have to move it twice a year (so weight isn't so much of an issue), for less than the price of the FP4F, I'd look at the FP-7. Better action, closer to the FP7F you already have, and I think still sounds "good enough" (especially if you're comparing it to the FP-4). The added weight also has the virtue of making it a bit more theft proof, if that could be a concern.

Re: Roland FP4F
mwf #1683707 05/24/11 10:53 AM
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AFAIK, apart from the internal amp/speakers, the FP4 and FP7 sound exactly the same. Through headphones they should be identical. Actions are quite different, though.


"you don't need to have been a rabbit in order to become a veterinarian"

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Re: Roland FP4F
mwf #1683812 05/24/11 03:18 PM
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I find the keys on the FP-4F to be slower than the keys on the FP-4

Re: Roland FP4F
mwf #1684251 05/25/11 09:28 AM
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I just received my FP-4F today. As you've read, I checked out the Rolands and one Yamaha several times. There was something I liked about the P-155, and—at first—didn't like about the FP-7F. On my second try, however, the P-155 still has something fakish, to my ears. Retrying the FP7F and the FP4F, I was surprised by the weight of the keys of the latter keyboard. The deciding factor has been going on for months, so finally, I decided to go for the FP4F with stand from woodbrass.

Now that I could have check out the keyboard yet again, in my own home, I do understand the sluggishness the keyboard has, though I don't think it will cause trouble to my playing, as I'm a beginner. I'm really not worried about that at all.

I'm not really fond about the speakers, though. They have a lot of volume, but they don't seem to be powerful. It's okay up till 35%/40%, but higher than that, they sound so muffled. I thought I set my DP too close to the wall, but it seems I will spare some cash so that I can buy some good external speakers.

Now I knew this already from the stores I went. Actually, the F110 seemed better in that department, but I believe it has better on board speakers. The FP4F definitely seemed to have a better feel, though.

I probably just need to relax and enjoy what I have. I tend to have this voice in my head asking me whether I did well or not whenever my purchase is even a small investment, when it is not necessary.

Re: Roland FP4F
mwf #1684263 05/25/11 09:51 AM
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You can probably get a decent set of headphones for $40-$50 that will give you much better sound than those little speakers. It's amazing what a difference that will make.


Yamaha CP4, Kawai CA93, Yamaha MODX8, EV ZXA1
Re: Roland FP4F
Coker #1684301 05/25/11 10:54 AM
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I have great quality headphones: Denon AH-D5000. Everything sounds a lot better that way, but still not quite what I could hear from several links on youtube; also, I would like to play with speakers, as I would like to sing while playing.

I see I can tweak the equalizer. I will try some settings. The highs look like they're toned down a bit, even though the gain is set at +12, while the mids could use a bit of a boost.

Has anyone tweaked those on a Roland FP piano?

The standard settings:

LO: GN 0, FQ 100
LM: GN 0, FQ 500, Q 2.0
HM: GN 0, FQ 1.25k, Q 2.0
HI: GN 12, FQ 8.0k

Again, I probably need to get used to the new DP. I had my EM-20 for years (since 1998).

Mano

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