Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!


SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Virtual Sheet Music
Download Sheet Music Instantly
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Sheet Music...
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Modern Piano Moving
Modern Piano Moving
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2017
(ad)
Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restorations and sales
Who's Online Now
140 registered members (Albunea, ajames, 17curleyj, agraffe, Alexank, 35 invisible), 2,058 guests, and 6 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#168184 - 08/26/04 06:40 PM Diapason 1970's vs. Kawai  
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6
Sarah Baldwin Offline
Junior Member
Sarah Baldwin  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6
Midcoast Maine
Hi all,

I'm new to the list, in the market for a piano to replace a very old no-name brand (labeled "de Koven") 5' baby grand. My son and I are both progressing in our piano study and really need a better instrument. Unfortunately, $6,000 is our budget limit right now.

I am currently trying to decide between two pianos -- an 8-year-old 5'1" Kawai GE-1 (with two years left on the original warranty) being sold privately, and a 5'10" Diapason piano from the 1970's that I am told is different from a Kawai RX-2 in name only. The Diapason is being offered with a four year warranty from the dealer.

I've been able to come up with very little information on the Diapason on the internet, except to verify that were made (or at least marketed) by Kawai in the 70's. My piano technician and teacher knew less than I did.

Can anyone shed any more light on this mysterious brand name? Is it identical to a Kawai of the same period? Do they have the same plastic parts as the current Kawais? Any comments on the quality of the brand?

Many thanks,
Sarah

(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#168185 - 08/26/04 06:43 PM Re: Diapason 1970's vs. Kawai  
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,740
Jeff Bauer Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Jeff Bauer  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,740
Los Angeles
Quote
Originally posted by Sarah Baldwin:
...5'10" Diapason piano from the 1970's that I am told is different from a Kawai RX-2 in name only.
You can tell about the plastic (ABS) parts by having a piano tech pull the action (anyone can do it, but it helps if you know what you are doing).

The Diapason, probably has far more in common with a Kawai KG2, which is not the same as an RX2. People on this forum more knowlegeable about the Kawai product can elaborate on that point.


Jeff Bauer | Keyboard Concepts

Yamaha | Schimmel | Bösendorfer | Knabe | Restored Steinway

My soundcloud page
#168186 - 08/26/04 06:51 PM Re: Diapason 1970's vs. Kawai  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 9,217
Larry Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Larry  Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 9,217
Deep in Cherokee Country
a 5'10" Diapason piano from the 1970's that I am told is different from a Kawai RX-2 in name only.

Sarah, the salesman is lying through his teeth. He may not know any better though, many of them don't. Unless there is something drastically wrong with the 5'1" Kawai that you've not been told, this is a simple choice. The Diapason was built by Kawai, and in a lot of ways was similar, but it is most definitely *not* the exact same piano as an RX-2. The Kawai equivalent in the 70s was a KG2, and even *that* piano isn't exactly the same as an RX-2. It isn't even the same as a KG-2 for that matter. Personally, any salesman that told me a lie this blatant, I wouldn't give him the time of day on *anything* else.

The Diapason was a completely different scale design, and in my opinion slightly inferior to the Kawai design. Most of them I've met up with had a terrible weak spot in the exact same place, two octaves above middle C. Nothing you did seemed to fix the problem. Others may not have had that same experience, but that has been mine, and I've worked on at least a dozen of them.

Age alone is enough to rule out the Diapason. Don't let the bigger size cause you to think you're missing something by going with the smaller piano - in this example, smaller *is* better.

Before you buy the Kawai though, get us the model number and serial number. We can check the true age of the piano. If it's only 8 years old, it is a model GE-1.


Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless
#168187 - 08/26/04 07:22 PM Re: Diapason 1970's vs. Kawai  
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6
Sarah Baldwin Offline
Junior Member
Sarah Baldwin  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6
Midcoast Maine
Thanks, Jazzer and Larry. The newer Kawai *is* a GE-1. The owner says it's in perfect condition, and I have no reason to suspect that anything is wrong with it. I've found a technician in the area who is willing to inspect it and give me a full report.

Thanks so much for your guidance!

Sarah

(ad ) MusicNotes.com
sheet music search
#168188 - 08/26/04 07:28 PM Re: Diapason 1970's vs. Kawai  
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,693
Keith D Kerman Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Keith D Kerman  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,693
Gaithersburg, MD (Washington D...
OK forumites, here is a good chance to cast your vote. Even though Sarah didn't ask ( sorry Sarah, I hope this helps rather than confuses )

First, I would say if the GE-1 gets a clean report, it is probably a good buy.

Now for the vote.

Lever 1: 8 year old 5' Japanese piano in good condition

Lever 2: Brand new 5' Nordiska, Hallet & Davis, or other Dong Bei product for same price.

Lever 3: 40 volts. no one asked about uprights


Keith D Kerman
PianoCraft
Rebuilding & Sales - vintage and used Steinway, Mason & Hamlin
New Steingraeber, Estonia, Baldwin
www.pianocraft.net
check out www.sitkadoc.com
www.twitter.com/pianocraft https://www.youtube.com/user/pianocraftchannel

keith@pianocraft.net 888-840-5460
#168189 - 08/26/04 07:36 PM Re: Diapason 1970's vs. Kawai  
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6
Sarah Baldwin Offline
Junior Member
Sarah Baldwin  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6
Midcoast Maine
Well, Keith, that might have been my next question. I have also been considering a brand new 5'3" Young Chang G157 for the same price as the other two used pianos.

Would a new, slightly bigger Chinese or Korean piano be preferable to an 8-year-old Kawai GE-1?

Further thoughts?

Confusing myself,
Sarah

#168190 - 08/26/04 07:56 PM Re: Diapason 1970's vs. Kawai  
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,248
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Norbert  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,248
Surrey, B.C.
P.S. For [almost?] same money you are within reach of 5'8" decent Chinese today.

It's always hard to give advice on pianos you don't get to see yourself.

Let alone play.....

Norbert


www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642 www.eliteheritagepianos.ca Edmonton, Alta dealers for Estonia,
Brodmann 780-405-8908
#168191 - 08/26/04 09:21 PM Re: Diapason 1970's vs. Kawai  
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,740
Jeff Bauer Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Jeff Bauer  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,740
Los Angeles
Quote
Originally posted by Sarah Baldwin:
Well, Keith, that might have been my next question. I have also been considering a brand new 5'3" Young Chang G157 for the same price as the other two used pianos.

Would a new, slightly bigger Chinese or Korean piano be preferable to an 8-year-old Kawai GE-1?

Further thoughts?

Confusing myself,
Sarah
FWIW, regarding Keith's Q, I am still not a huge advocate of Chinese: as a player, I have yet to come accross one I like (including all I have tried at NAMM) - I do agree, however, that the Chinese pianos are well built.

A Young Chang G157 is considered a "gold series" - Ever since Young Chang came out with the Pramberger designed models (1999ish?), I have not seen many G157s.. just PG157s (P stands for Pramberger). Young Chang still made G157s, and called them their "gold series", but for how long I don't know. They weren't that much less in cost, so we stuck with the Pramberger.

In fact, around that time Young Chang was also making something called a Bergmann (out of Indonesia? or China? I forget) - so there were three levels of piano, the TG157 (later to be called a Bergmann), the G157 (the gold series), and the PG157 (the Pramberger models)... If you really wanted to go for the best, they had a Pramberger Platinum known as a JP series (but I don't recall it being built any smaller than a JP175).

If you are considering a Young Chang, see if you can find a PG157 for comparison to the rest - pretty nice pianos IMO.

However, knowing what I know, in that price range, I personally would hold out for the new Yamaha GB1. 5' indonesian Yamaha, boasting improvement over an already pretty nice GA1E ( current model, soon to be replaced).

All the above is considering you can bump your budget by about 1,500 to 2,000 of course. wink


Jeff Bauer | Keyboard Concepts

Yamaha | Schimmel | Bösendorfer | Knabe | Restored Steinway

My soundcloud page
#168192 - 08/27/04 06:57 AM Re: Diapason 1970's vs. Kawai  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 9,217
Larry Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Larry  Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 9,217
Deep in Cherokee Country
Stick with the 8 year old GE-1. It's a better piano.


Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless
#168193 - 08/27/04 09:47 AM Re: Diapason 1970's vs. Kawai  
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 21
Schiedmayer Offline
Full Member
Schiedmayer  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 21
france
Hi !!

I'm french and this is a question for Larry. Are there any differences between Diapason and Schiedmayer ? I own one and i find it close to Kawai sound. No problem execpt the A5 that seems to be a little husky !! It seems close to a kg3 (183 cm)

Thanx for your answer.

#168194 - 08/27/04 12:21 PM Re: Diapason 1970's vs. Kawai  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 9,217
Larry Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Larry  Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 9,217
Deep in Cherokee Country
I've never compared them side by side, so I can't say. Both are built by Kawai, and that's about all I can tell you. It doesn't surprise me that they sound similar though, given that they are after all, all built by Kawai.


Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless
#168195 - 08/27/04 04:00 PM Re: Diapason 1970's vs. Kawai  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,846
Steve Cohen Online content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Steve Cohen  Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,846
Maryland/DC/No. VA
The G157 was discontinued several years ago. While the one you saw might be "new" (as in never sold before), it is older stock and should be discounted as such.

The current model is a PG157 which is a vastly improved design with very different tonal qualities. I beieve that it is one of the best buys on the market today.


Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.
#168196 - 08/28/04 08:35 AM Re: Diapason 1970's vs. Kawai  
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6
Sarah Baldwin Offline
Junior Member
Sarah Baldwin  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6
Midcoast Maine
Okay, I am very close to making a decision to purchase the Kawai GE1, assuming it gets a clean report from the technician who is inspecting it today.

One last question though: For about the same price there is a two-year-old Korean-made 5'7" Weber that a dealer here in Maine has. It has been rented or used for demos (or some such thing), but has never been sold and comes with the new warranty. Might this be a better buy than the smaller, eight-year-old Kawai? I am torn between the quality vs. size question.

Thanks again,
Sarah

#168197 - 08/28/04 07:28 PM Re: Diapason 1970's vs. Kawai  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 9,217
Larry Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Larry  Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 9,217
Deep in Cherokee Country
Go for the Weber. It's bigger, and it's a good piano. I think it is actually a little better built than the GE-1. Not to say they're not good pianos, but the GE series Kawais are their "lightweights" so to speak, built more to hit a price point than anything else. You aren't giving up much if anything in the quality comparison between the two, and you're gaining a larger, fuller sounding piano.


Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless
#168198 - 08/29/04 04:51 AM Re: Diapason 1970's vs. Kawai  
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6
Sarah Baldwin Offline
Junior Member
Sarah Baldwin  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6
Midcoast Maine
Thanks again for the advice, Larry. The Weber in question is a WG57. I know this piano was made by Young Chang, but from my research I've gathered that it is equivalent to the Young Chang Gold series--not the PG series.

Knowing this, do you still think the quality would be comparable between the Kawai GE1 and the Weber WG57?

Anyone else have an opinion? I appreciate the help I've been getting here more than I can tell you. Many, many thanks for helping avoid a costly mistake.

Warm regards,
Sarah

#168199 - 08/29/04 09:38 AM Re: Diapason 1970's vs. Kawai  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 9,217
Larry Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Larry  Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 9,217
Deep in Cherokee Country
While there are slight differences between the WG-57 (the "Gold series") and the WSG-57 (the Pramberger version) both pianos are just fine for the money, and yes, in my opinion it is very competitive with a GE series Kawai. Since the piano has been used some, request the action be regulated, and examine the case closely for any damage that might have been repaired. Small chips or dings that have been adequately repaired aren't important. I'm talking about any major repair work.


Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World) our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping on Jansen Artist Piano Benches
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


(ad)
Pianoteq
Grotrian Concert
Royal
for Pianoteq out now
What's Hot!!
Why Do You Play The Piano?
-------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
-------------------
Piano Classified Ads
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Pianoteq 5 Standard: How to Transpose?
by newbert. 05/29/17 01:13 PM
Afton Water - a piece for duet
by Celdor. 05/29/17 01:06 PM
Decent digital piano for silent practice and MIDI?
by Marcos Scriven. 05/29/17 01:03 PM
OT - whistled languages
by LXXXVIIIdentes. 05/29/17 12:52 PM
Sheet Music for Elliott Smith's "Bye"
by johnbarnesiii. 05/29/17 12:46 PM
(ad)
Sheet Music Plus
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Report Problems With New Forums
Report Problems with New Forums Here!
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics179,956
Posts2,630,888
Members87,920
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0