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Re: Is classical music relevant to the young? [Re: bennevis] #1676854
05/13/11 09:55 AM
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Modern life dictates that we are no longer constrained to put art on a pedestal and we are allowed the freedom to navigate our own personal tastes, wether they be classical or non-classical. And basically everything now is charted monthly on sales and given it's correct exposure on the shelf.

Therefore there is no point in concerning ourselves with the question of relevance as it is all a market ploy whatever genre. What are you getting with hip hop? You are buying into the illusion that this is the music of now and relevant to you as sold by the music labels, media, etc.
What are you getting with classical? You are buying into the illusion that an artist has uniquely given new life to a fossil as sold by the music labels, media, etc.



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Re: Is classical music relevant to the young? [Re: bennevis] #1676901
05/13/11 11:23 AM
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I was at a seminar by a neurobiologist a few years ago. The subject matter of her work was hearing in humans: how it's wired together in the brain and all that. After, during the questions, I asked whether there are any known neurological diseases that influence hearing via the pathways she studies.

Her answer was a bit unengaged in the question but then the guy who had invited her - a good friend of mine - blurted out "there must be diseases. For example, some people have great taste in music and some people like 'Air Supply'"

No idea whether this is relevant but it still makes me laugh and I think of it every time I hear people pulling their hair out over the lack of interest of many people in classical (or any other kind of) music.


Justin
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Re: Is classical music relevant to the young? [Re: bennevis] #1676912
05/13/11 11:37 AM
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There's also a "community" aspect to pop music. Everyone is listening to the same thing, and it's a shared fund of knowledge-- so to speak. Jnod's comment about "Air Supply" reminds me of their song "Lost in Love," back in ?? 1980-- one day in geometry class in high school, one of my classmates leaned back in her chair during a study period and started singing "Lost in geometry, and I don't know much," and everyone laughed. Because everyone understood the reference. Everyone listens to the same popular songs, in the same few-month interval they are popular. If you like classical music, you are sort of on your own and not connected to that instant, "I know what you're talking about" aspect of pop culture. If there is a community of classical-music-minded students, that will give a sense of belonging. I don't think it's good for kids to be isolated in their love of anything, even something valuable like classical music.

Re: Is classical music relevant to the young? [Re: cefinow] #1677046
05/13/11 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by cefinow
There's also a "community" aspect to pop music. Everyone is listening to the same thing, and it's a shared fund of knowledge-- so to speak.


I think that's spot-on. I think it's particularly relevant to school children, who tend to see the same people, day after day. Pop music, like television, is part of their shared experience. I'm not sure it matters enormously whether the music (or the television) has any particular merit.

My daughter, for example, might say that she likes a particular kind of music or a particular performer, but I'm not at all sure she's using the word 'likes' here in the same sense I'm using it when I say 'I like Bach'. I'm making a judgement about music, she is making a judgement about how music relates to her peer group.

That's not a criticism -- my kids also 'like' (to some extent) serious music in the same why I do. But that doesn't form part of their peer group culture (even though they attend a very musical school).

Re: Is classical music relevant to the young? [Re: bennevis] #1677126
05/13/11 05:41 PM
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I'd like to know how interest in classical music among those under 20 compares to 10, 20, or 50 years ago.

Anyone have any figures on this? For example, statistics comparing percentages of under 20's taking classical piano lessons(realizing they're not all interested)today compared to in the past.

Re: Is classical music relevant to the young? [Re: bennevis] #1677151
05/13/11 06:12 PM
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Perhaps it's just the lawyer in me speaking, but I understand the question to be whether classical music is "relevant" to young people. Most folks seem to be answering a different question, which is whether young people appreciate it or care about it.

To me, the question of relevance is whether or not it is pertinent... applicable... whether it has any bearing on the subject at hand. And my answer is yes, it's absolutely relevant to young people whether they appreciate that fact or not. I think that's true of any classic example of the fine arts... literature, painting, sculpture, etc. It's relevant because it is an expression of humanity that transcends time, place, and generation, and has meaning and/or emotional impact for us all.

If the question really is in regard to young people's appreciation of it (or lack thereof), I think that's something that has been felt by the older generation, about the younger generation, for centuries (although I'd probably admit I also think it's getting worse and worse).

Re: Is classical music relevant to the young? [Re: Legal Beagle] #1677155
05/13/11 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Legal Beagle
Perhaps it's just the lawyer in me speaking, but I understand the question to be whether classical music is "relevant" to young people. Most folks seem to be answering a different question, which is whether young people appreciate it or care about it.

To me, the question of relevance is whether or not it is pertinent... applicable... whether it has any bearing on the subject at hand. And my answer is yes, it's absolutely relevant to young people whether they appreciate that fact or not. I think that's true of any classic example of the fine arts... literature, painting, sculpture, etc. It's relevant because it is an expression of humanity that transcends time, place, and generation, and has meaning and/or emotional impact for us all.

If the question really is in regard to young people's appreciation of it (or lack thereof), I think that's something that has been felt by the older generation, about the younger generation, for centuries (although I'd probably admit I also think it's getting worse and worse).


o tempora, o mores!

Well said Mr. Beagle!


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Re: Is classical music relevant to the young? [Re: bennevis] #1677159
05/13/11 06:30 PM
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Actually, I'll bet there's as much interest among the under-20s as there ever was. Maybe more since China has embraced European music so intensely.

Also, no offense intended to any AIr Supply fans out there (e.g. Cefinow if that includes you!). And for the record I agree completely about the community aspect of music. I've always been pretty Catholic in my musical tastes. Listened to lots of pop music in high school - went to see bands etc...etc... But always with a steady current of Bach, Mozart and Beethoven in my veins.

At one point I realized that there was a subgroup of smart girls who were actually interested in the fact that I could play the piano. This became a very strong motivating force!


Justin
-------
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Scarlatti Sonata K141 . L422
Mozart Sonata K333
Schubert Impromptu opus 90 D899
Schubert Moment Musicaux opus 94 D780
Re: Is classical music relevant to the young? [Re: theJourney] #1677170
05/13/11 06:47 PM
05/13/11 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by theJourney
Originally Posted by polyphasicpianist
Thank you so much for posting this. I am glad Fry gave the wonderful history lesson, it always bugs me when people call classical music an elitist product of the aristocracy, it just shows a fundamental ignorance.


Perhaps you should spend some time learning about the history of Western Music. Carefully study this and get back to us:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Oxford-Hist..._1?ie=UTF8&qid=1305267419&sr=8-1

At only 51 pounds for 15 pounds of books in 5 volumes it is arguably the best value in music writing today, pound for pound.


Agreed. Reading Taruskin profoundly changed my understanding of classical music. The best value by far.

Tomasino


"Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do so with all thy might." Ecclesiastes 9:10

Re: Is classical music relevant to the young? [Re: pianoloverus] #1677173
05/13/11 06:53 PM
05/13/11 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
I'd like to know how interest in classical music among those under 20 compares to 10, 20, or 50 years ago.

Anyone have any figures on this? For example, statistics comparing percentages of under 20's taking classical piano lessons(realizing they're not all interested)today compared to in the past.


Try this site: http://www.artsjournal.com/sandow/

You have to dig through the site a bit, but there is quite a lot of information of the kind you're asking for. A study done, for example, by the Minneapolis Symphony in the mid-sixties showing that the mean age of an audience attendee was 35, for example.

Tomasino


"Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do so with all thy might." Ecclesiastes 9:10

Re: Is classical music relevant to the young? [Re: theJourney] #1677202
05/13/11 08:09 PM
05/13/11 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by theJourney
Originally Posted by polyphasicpianist
Thank you so much for posting this. I am glad Fry gave the wonderful history lesson, it always bugs me when people call classical music an elitist product of the aristocracy, it just shows a fundamental ignorance.


Perhaps you should spend some time learning about the history of Western Music. Carefully study this and get back to us:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Oxford-Hist..._1?ie=UTF8&qid=1305267419&sr=8-1

At only 51 pounds for 15 pounds of books in 5 volumes it is arguably the best value in music writing today, pound for pound.


Composers (in general) worked for the aristocracy and were not of the aristocracy. The music may have been paid for by the elite, but that does not make it elitist. That was my point. It was in reaction to what the DJ in the debate said. But if you think it is elitist then fine, that is your opinion.

Re: Is classical music relevant to the young? [Re: bennevis] #1677222
05/13/11 08:48 PM
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I know it's hard to understand but some people simply don't have a deep enough interest in music. For them music is something casual. They just consume what they are exposed to and it doesn't even cross their minds to discover what else is out there.
For classical music you need to have a special interest in music to begin with. And patience to learn to listen to it.
Real interest and love for classical music must come from within. Those who really want to discover it, will do so. And what better times to discover new music than today? With the internet etc.

Even harder to understand is that some may actually genuinely not like classical music even after giving it a fair chance. wink

Last edited by babama; 05/13/11 08:49 PM.
Re: Is classical music relevant to the young? [Re: polyphasicpianist] #1677266
05/13/11 10:20 PM
05/13/11 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by polyphasicpianist
Composers (in general) worked for the aristocracy and were not of the aristocracy. The music may have been paid for by the elite, but that does not make it elitist.


You have made a very good point. The classical music tradition belongs as much to the social classes who produced the music as to those who commissioned it.

Tomasino




"Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do so with all thy might." Ecclesiastes 9:10

Re: Is classical music relevant to the young? [Re: tomasino] #1677281
05/13/11 11:08 PM
05/13/11 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by tomasino
Originally Posted by polyphasicpianist
Composers (in general) worked for the aristocracy and were not of the aristocracy. The music may have been paid for by the elite, but that does not make it elitist.


You have made a very good point. The classical music tradition belongs as much to the social classes who produced the music as to those who commissioned it.



You may want to think that through more carefully.

Re: Is classical music relevant to the young? [Re: Samuel1993] #1677289
05/13/11 11:59 PM
05/13/11 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Samuel1993
Unfortunately, Not one little bit. I've loved Classical Music all my life, I'm 18 now so people are a lot more mature. But in High School, if somebody asked me what Music I liked - they would openly laugh if I said Classical. Sounds harsh but it's the reality. Young people believe it's 'boring' - which saddens me. Most people my age love synthesized Dance/Pop music with a heavy drum beat.


Yes, as a current high school student, this is certainly the case. I and one friend (Who also plays classical piano) are probably the only people in the entire school population who play/listen to classical music. And as we make the effort to practice on the school pianos, during lunch times and such, we often get other students who come in and make a mockery of our playing/music. What's worse is many teachers expect us to be of the norm, and are surprised to hear us talking about classical music, and are more surprised to hear kids in the school who actually understand/play/listen to classical music.

I recall one situation a few weeks ago, where I had the opportunity to have music playing through YouTube during a class, and I put on the Third movement of Beethoven's Eroica, because I thought it was something anyone could enjoy. And when the other kids in the class start saying 'Turn that crap off' and 'This music is so boring...' I guess it shows their ignorance. smile But I find it personally offensive and embarrassing, that so many of my peers, even in the so-called "Academic Gifted and Talented Education Program" are so uneducated.

I believe classical music is relevant to us 'young people' but it is just the huge amount of ignorance and it being unfashionable, I suppose, to listen to it. Unless everyone else is just not of the intellectual level to understand and appreciate it? smile


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Re: Is classical music relevant to the young? [Re: Legal Beagle] #1677597
05/14/11 02:11 PM
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[quote=Legal Beagle
If the question really is in regard to young people's appreciation of it (or lack thereof), I think that's something that has been felt by the older generation, about the younger generation, for centuries (although I'd probably admit I also think it's getting worse and worse). [/quote]

Do you mean that the reality is getting worse, or that older people's misinterpretation of the reality is getting worse?

I'm pretty sure that everybody over the age of 50 has tended to think that young people don't know they're born, and probably for millenia rather than centuries. But if things are as bad as some of the posts on this thread suggestion, it won't be long before we're back to picking fleas off one another for entertainment.

Re: Is classical music relevant to the young? [Re: kevinb] #1678622
05/16/11 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by kevinb
Originally Posted by Legal Beagle

If the question really is in regard to young people's appreciation of it (or lack thereof), I think that's something that has been felt by the older generation, about the younger generation, for centuries (although I'd probably admit I also think it's getting worse and worse).


Do you mean that the reality is getting worse, or that older people's misinterpretation of the reality is getting worse?

I'm pretty sure that everybody over the age of 50 has tended to think that young people don't know they're born, and probably for millenia rather than centuries. But if things are as bad as some of the posts on this thread suggestion, it won't be long before we're back to picking fleas off one another for entertainment.


Kevin, I phrased that somewhat inartfully. What I meant was this: even though I believe the reality is that this phenomenon is nothing more than the latest iteration of the older generation bemoaning their perceived dearth of culture among the younger generation, I still find that I'm susceptible to such thoughts myself.


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Re: Is classical music relevant to the young? [Re: Legal Beagle] #1678801
05/16/11 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Legal Beagle

Kevin, I phrased that somewhat inartfully. What I meant was this: even though I believe the reality is that this phenomenon is nothing more than the latest iteration of the older generation bemoaning their perceived dearth of culture among the younger generation, I still find that I'm susceptible to such thoughts myself.


Aren't we all? smirk Something to be on guard against, perhaps?

Re: Is classical music relevant to the young? [Re: bennevis] #1678880
05/16/11 05:27 PM
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I once heard a museum curator respond to the relevance question by saying that it's not the art that's on trial, it's the viewer.

The same could be said of music.


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Re: Is classical music relevant to the young? [Re: kevinb] #1678884
05/16/11 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by kevinb
Originally Posted by Legal Beagle

Kevin, I phrased that somewhat inartfully. What I meant was this: even though I believe the reality is that this phenomenon is nothing more than the latest iteration of the older generation bemoaning their perceived dearth of culture among the younger generation, I still find that I'm susceptible to such thoughts myself.


Aren't we all? smirk Something to be on guard against, perhaps?


Indeed.


"Wide awake, I can make my most fantastic dreams come true..."
- Lorenz Hart
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