Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Derelict artcase concert grand identity

I bolted up in bed one night and said, "Wait a minute, there's a concert grand piano in my grandmother's house, covered with housepaint." I went to investigate...

It's about 8'6" to 8'9" long. It has the same metal frame as the pre-1900 chickerings had. There is a letter F embossed on the metal frame. The keys are plastic. The legs are carved. Under the paint, it appears to be dark, dark oak.

There is a number 1082 stamped on the bottom of the piano and inside (when you rip the cover over the keys off to get to the mechanism, it's on a tag in there, on the left).

The story is that whoever built the house in 1923 bought this piano from the Piano company in town. East Rochester, NY had the largest piano manufacturer in the world, starting in 1908. It says AMPICO on the smoke stack. In 1932-abouts, I think it changed to Aeolean. 1932 is when Chickering moved from Boston to East Rochester. The piano was too large to move out of the house in 1963, when they moved in. It was also unplayable then. The felts were gone and I think the pinblock was gone too.

Currently, it sits there, covered with white housepaint. The tuning pins appear to be ripping from the pinblock. The soundboard is cracked. The action needs to be pulled out and repaired. Felts need to be replaced

So, can anyone tell me what it is? If it was built in town here, I might see if I can get some old men to rebuild it in the garage. They built them the first time around. I'm trying to avoid selling it, but a $20,000 restoration seems out of my league. I'd like to get it to play, at least, so it's worth keeping around until I've got some dough.

Here are the pics

http://24.97.84.9/mike/piano02.jpg

http://24.97.84.9/mike/piano03.jpg

http://24.97.84.9/mike/piano04.jpg

http://24.97.84.9/mike/piano05.jpg

http://24.97.84.9/mike/piano06.jpg

http://24.97.84.9/mike/piano07.jpg

http://24.97.84.9/mike/piano08.jpg

http://24.97.84.9/mike/piano09.jpg

http://24.97.84.9/mike/piano10.jpg

http://24.97.84.9/mike/piano11.jpg

http://24.97.84.9/mike/piano12.jpg

http://24.97.84.9/mike/piano13.jpg

http://24.97.84.9/mike/piano14.jpg

http://24.97.84.9/mike/piano15.jpg

What do you guys think?

Bito,it's definitely a Chickering,but it was built way before 1923.I'd say more like 1870's.It's a wonderful candidate for restoration,but do to some complex Chickering features like the pin-block,which is probably made in 4 separate pieces,it is not one of the easiest makes to rebuild.Note also the action,a very early design,I can't recall the name,but also very antiquated and difficult to rebuild.Even more difficult would be to retrofit a new modern action.Considering all of these points you would need to find someone specializing in early pianos to even get close to putting this piano in playing condition,and there are'nt to many with the credentials to do it right.I think you're looking at more than $20,000 for this job.I saw a Chickering similar to yours that had been completely re-manufactured with no detail left unfinished,sell fo $80,000.

Hi, to me it looks a little like an 1860's Bechstein. Though I'm not familiar with US brands to say what if it is one of those. Scrape or use paint stripper on the fall and see if there is a name.

Ship it over, I can do it for farless than US$20k

Cool

Hi,
I was made aware of this website:

http://www.pianos.co.uk/info/pianos/c/chickering.php

They say my piano was built between 1831 and 1840. Didn't all the pianos from that time period have ivory keys and not plastic?

Is it possable that it was reconditioned in the 1920's at the piano works, explaining the plastic keys and the story of when they got it?

Did they make any pianos that looked like that later on, as throwbacks? Or is it definately a real oldie?

Is there any book that would have the information in it? I've heard of a piano atlas.

Thanks.

You may not like what I have to say but..
this may be what I call a piano money pit, It may cost you a lot more to fix up and refinish than to buy a new piano.

You might consider selling it to a rebuilder/tech as they can do the work at their cost, that is, if they see value in doing such.. You also might call a lot of dealers to come out and see what they will give you for it, if they poo poo it then you know it may not be worth very much.

Get a lot of written appraisals from rebuilders and make sure ( the techs) they have a history of rebuilding. see some of their work and get a record of satisfied customers and talk to them.

When the work is all done you may not have a piano that sounds or feels as nice as something new today and it may be a lot less money.

Antique gold and white is also a very hard piano to sell and a hard finish to do perfectly.

Call a dealer and ask about a pierce piano atlas for age on the piano.

PS. you have heard of a white elephant?

Hi all,

I have to disagree - I do not believe it is a Chickering. It looks like a very close knock-off of a late-1860s Steinway Style 1 grand. Same over-strung angle, 3/4 plate with exposed pinblock. The plate struts are much taller than the Steinway ones.

I have never seen a Chickering with just an "F" on the plate, either. The serial number also doesn't work, as Chickering did not over-string their large grands until after 1850 or so.

This looks more to be an off-brand imitation Steinway. Can't be sure, though.

Don Mannino

Isn't this clearly one of those 1990's Prambergers you guys always argue about??



Have you pulled the action? Sometimes, there might be something written inside, somewhere. Maybe it will have "Cristofori" scribed into the wood <grin>.

Of everyone that has posted on this thread, I know the least. But, I am curious, especially to know what's under that white paint. That might be one very gorgeous instrument underneath, that some knucklehead decided to paint!

Pulling the action -- that sounds frightening. I had it opened up. And there was an unrecognizable word written in cursive on a tag. Either Chickering, or Concert, or C--------

You can see it in piano14.jpg, only the tag is blurred out.

And the last key was signed (Actually, the key numbered one). It said Sully / Sally. I couldn't tell. The keys were numbered low to high 1 to 88 with an old style font. It looked like an old stamp, not handwriting.

Does the action just pull out? I wanted to get someone who knows a lot about pianos over here so we could perhaps work on this together and he give me some pointers on how not to ruin it. It didn't seem too complex. I've rebuilt antique cars, giant shipboard diesel generators, treadle sewing machines, rebottomed boats, built furniture, fixed player mechanisms for uprights before. But I'm not anxious to go pulling stuff apart just yet, without having somebody with me who knows darn well what he's doing.

Ummm.... money pit. Looks like late 19th Century, probably 1870's. The action picture suggests that it has some variant of an English action (jacks mounted on keys, no whippen) although it's too indistinct to be absolutely sure. This is not the average rebuilding project that an amateur with some professional guidance could tackle, and it's probably beyond the average rebuilder too. The pinblock is most probably built into the sides of the case so replacing it is going to take some major cabinet work. Judging by its age and where it's been it's very unlikely that it's going to sound like anything good unless the soundboard is replaced, not just repaired. The action... I don't even want to think about that without a good look at it, but I'd guess it's going to be building an entirely new action from square zero. Yep... money pit.

Although it looks American, it does have one feature in common with Bechstein that not too many pianos have - agraffes going all the way up to note 88 instead of a capo bar.

Niles Duncan
Piano rebuilder, Pasadena, CA
www.pianosource.com

Okay, so what does the F mean?

I looked at all these fancy piano books and websites. I've written people in many different countries. Nobody seems to know. What does the F mean?

Don't you know?
It wasn't there, the last technician who tune the piano putted it on.

Good one, iyi.

IMO, Firewood. (just kidding, Bito)

David

Many piano manufacturers have historically identified the types of pianos they build or a particular feature of piano design called the scale with a single letter designator: i.e. Steinway Model B, Bechstein Model E, Baldwin scale G, etc. This is probably a model or scale designator of the manufacturer of this piano. It is meaningless without knowing who the manufacturer is.

Niles Duncan
Piano rebuilder, Pasadena, CA
www.pianosource.com

Im 99% sure that it is a Chickering from around the 1870s-1880s. We have restored 3 of these identical pianos for various clients. Also you said that you think the wood is Oak, chances are is that it is Rosewood not Oak. I like to term these pianos as experimental pianos. The in-between stage of a square grand piano and a more modern piano. Some draw backs of this old 9' piano is that it has an exposed pinblock, it is not overstrung, and it has the older version action, with little or no adjustments in it (we term these actions as "rocker actions". Also the dampers have to be twisted into the back action rather than just simply slide in and then screwed in place. They are not fun to work on and getting new parts for that action besides hammers is very difficult. Do your self a favor and sell the piano, and put the money that you get towards a more modern piano. Good luck with it.

Michael Kaufman
www.countrypiano.com
607-546-2712

I worked on a piano like this years ago. I'd say it is a Chickering, dating to about 1880. Probably rosewood underneath all that paint. Expect to pay a good buck to rebuild this one.

Everything I see makes me think it is an old Bechstein. Open face pinblock, heavy agraffes all the way up, individual stringing, the big humped up pinblock. Definitely before 1870. As far as rebuilding it, I wouldn't waste a dime on it.

Someone had posted that this piano is not overstrung, but judging by the photos it looks as if it is - unless I am a bit fuzzy on what an overstrung piano is (which is probably the case since I am not an expert in ANY aspect of piano construction).
Could one of the REAL experts please clear this up for me?

Opps... I have appeared to miss pic # 11, the piano is overstrung my mistake.

Michael Kaufman
www.countrypiano.com
607-546-2712