Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner playing for free

I played last night and the manager of the catering (an exclusive catering with only one very important client) asked me to play for free at an event later in the year.

They invite the residents of a nursing home to the grounds of the mansion for a high tea, and in addition to the other music (which will be supplied for free), he wants me to play the piano.

I said, no problem. Well, there is a problem. I offered my services which means you supply the piano and I'll play it. You see they can't move their Steinway outside so could I please bring my electric set up.

This is where it gets sticky. For me to bring my electric piano (in a flight care wheeled on a hand truck) entails bringing along a piano stand, a chair for myself, two Bose speakers, two speaker stands, a Anvil rack case on wheels filled with a mixer and amp and other goodies and a box of cables. I might also bring along a music stand and a case that holds music. I'll also bring an additional set of clothes since I don't move equipment in a €600 tux. I might drive to a job in my tux when there's a piano waiting for me, but I don't move equipment in dress clothes.

To load my car from my house take more than six trips back and forth. At a site it's usually six trips back and forth since there's usually enough room for me to carry an item in each hand, in my house a narrow hallway makes that not possible.

I politely but firmly stuck to my original offer - my services are free but not the use of my equipment.

As long as I'm ranting, I've played for free for the family. My wife's aunt turned 90 a few years back and I offered to play for free (service and equipment). The drummer was my brother-in-law and he'll play for free at the drop of a hat. I would not ever dream of asking a professional musician to play for free and I told the family, you want this bass player, you'll have to pay him and I suggested an amount which was fair.

I don't mind playing for free, I just like to be the one deciding when, where, and for whom.

I always charge extra for the moving, setup and general hassle of using my electric set up.

Playing for free is a gift of your abilities and should not be taken lightly. Whether you charge a fee for anything depends on your take of the situation. For family, close friends, etc., and moving your equipment, that might be something your would not mind doing. If the caterer provides the equipment and it is a charitable event, then you might want to consider. From your description it seems to be something of an imposition to move all of your gear. They should at least offer to provide help in moving it there and back if you could reach an agreement.

Setting it all up is no easy task either.

I feel for you, Dave. I'm often stunned at the fees and conditions offered when I do gigs here in the Netherlands. I'm perfectly willing to give people a break on my fee or even to play for free when it's for a good cause, but the general attitude seems to be that musicians can work for a pittance, and under generally crummy conditions. I think that the musicians' unions are mostly to blame. They don't enforce minimum fees for any situations I've been in, the one exception being subbing in the established symphony orchestras.

When there's an established employer which the union can somehow hold to ransom, rates can be enforced. Outside this, the only way to enforce anything is by everyone refusing to work under a certain price. Start organising, and let us know how you get on!

It is amazing what they expect. They do not look at it as a gift. Here's my latest. The non-profit I work, day gig, for asked JR's Roadhouse Allstars - the R&B band I'm in - to play for the outfit's 60th birthday party in Fort Worth at the head office. Only about an hour. Everybody lives in Dallas but me. We're going to do it, but I am going to pay the talent out of my own pocket - they need the money (they think the outfit is paying them and the company doesn't know it - I'll play for free here, but I will not let them play free - I guess I just want to show off, I don't know). Later, the PR lady wants to use our drummer's drum kit for other groups that are going to play. I made an enemy giving her a hard time, but the drummer agreed to do it. He'll be eating and drinking beer anyway. Anyway, you do them a favor and they immediately start trying to take advantage - as if, so what... We used to joke that we really play for free and the fee charged is for moving all the gear.

I totally agree with Dave Horne's take on this. While Dave's situation involves the impracticality of moving a great deal of equipment in clothes either inappropriate for the move or for the event, the organizers - as is too often the case - don't seem to be willing to take into account what is involved in playing for free; it's rarely "free."

I politely refused to play "classical background music" at an upcoming outdoor Garden Event - only one half hour as there will be other performers - on an electronic piano. Spring weather can be unpredictable, music has to be anchored down if one is going to use music, and playing classical music outdoors on an electronic just seems contrary. The fact that "nobody will really be listening" just adds to the insult, doesn't it?

I do have guilt feelings about this, however, as it is a fund-raising event; I should really just swallow my high-minded pride and do it; after all, I'm not Horowitz! ... but ....

Regards,

If its any consolation, at least the "next time" someone asks you play for free, you'll have considered all the issues and have a canned answer ready for them, avoiding the need for any back peddling later.

Out of curiosity, why did you initially agree to play for free (I assume you usually get paid for these things)?

Don't play for free! Would you ask a waitress to work for free when she can be making 11/hr plus tips? No! Why should it be different for us? Helll we need to eat too.

From now on, we're booked; unless it's an Uber-worthy event.

Out of curiosity, why did you initially agree to play for free (I assume you usually get paid for these things)?

Well, I initially said I would have to think about it because I didn't know our vacation schedule. I then agreed that I would play for free and then learned that it entailed using my equipment.

In the past this job was very lucrative. Times are much different now I figured it wouldn't hurt to do a freebie. You know, you can play seven days a week if you want to ... and agree not to be paid.

Lesson learned - as always, no good deed goes unpunished.

I suggested that he consider calling piano stores (the ones where grands were rented from in the past) and have them supply a piano.

Depending on the event, the venue, and the attendees, playing for free can occasionally bring in future lucrative "gigs".

Regards,

That reminds me of the following interview (which had been posted here before) ...

I did play play "classical" for an event like Bruce describes a few months back, and for free. I knew that the carrying of my gear would be the least enjoyable part and took it into account. Handling gear gets boring very quickly and I suppose non-musicians wouldn't realise.

The event was one that I strongly wanted to support, I really like the people involved, and on top of that it was an excellent opportunity for me to perform more than one piece in public for the first time. So the experience for me was well worth it. I knew the ground would be uneven and getting the seat height right would be impossible, so I chose easier pieces for poor conditions. Hey and I never expected that people would want to chat while you are playing - now that is good for concentration and memory!

I would much much rather play for free than supply and setup gear for free, definitely worth thinking through.

I don't even know how to play for free. How many frees do you get? I have played "free of charge" and actually will be doing so again this very Sunday in a benefit for the "Make a Wish" foundation. I don't mind setting up basic gear, my keyboards, but I draw the line at handling the P.A.

Not even that.

I find it rude for anyone to ever ask somebody who has a skill if they would mind providing their services for free.

They should stop being cheap and cough up at least $100. Whatever the event is , I'm sure they could get a check to you for your services.

And what Bruce said. If you are really irritated about the entire ordeal , you could benefit in other ways ...

But then it usually happens that they find out you are playing for free and they will ask you to do the same for them .. ugh!

My band has played several free gigs hoping to get bookings out of it. It doesn't work very well. Sometimes I don't mind, but by and large, for all the work and potential injuries lugging all my equipment around, it's not worth it. And, yes, venue owners don't care or think about all the work you do "playing" for free.

None of the bands I have played with have ever gotten a gig from a free gig. ever. we get them from word of mouth, and from club owners, and a reverbnation website. Harlan Ellison is a genius - and he is right, too.

I've found it interesting that those with the most legitimate need (charity groups etc) tend to be those who say "of course we'll pay you - what is your fee?"

Years ago, before "portable" keyboards, I was asked to play for a high society event. A local music store provided an upright piano free, but no movers. Some people got rather miffed at me when I wouldn't join in with 4 or 5 volunteers to move the piano (it didn't go very smoothly, by the way--those things are top-heavy).

I WAS PLAYING (for no fee) for goodness sakes! You can't play delicatissimo background after lugging the piano uphill, backwards!

I've given recitals where my fee and tickets went to a charitable cause, but otherwise you're asking for an ear-full should you insult me by asking me to play for free.

I am editing an anthology which will be published by a major publisher and all the money we make will go exclusively to charity. We have been working on it for a long time (it was A LOT of work), but the publisher thinks it is really good at least. It also includes links to free music (our performances of course).
I have also volunteered for positions in some societies, but I am not sure I would do that again, as it is a lot of work and it is not charity.

Depends on what kind of event it is. If it is a concert where a very nice grand is provided for me in a nice hall with a big audience, I wouldn't mind playing for free. I see there's much more value in playing a concert in front of hundreds of people than money - I guess in a way it's not really for "free".

When I do gigs (non-standard classical repertoire; background music that I don't care for), I make sure they pay through the nose -- especially if I have to bring my portable keyboard.

What's funny is that 99% of my income from piano comes from playing music that I don't care for (background, non-classical) than music that I spend practicing 3 hours a day.

I don't work for free, neither should you. The only thing you gain by doing something for free without a well defined means to an end (not necessarily monetary) is you allow yourself to be taken advantage of.

Speaking of playing for free.

Church organists get asked this often -

Can you do something for us for the big Sat night church supper? Play the piano, have the choir sing, have the children's choir sing?

Sometimes is it almost expected. And for free.

Once I dared to say, "Did the janitor get paid for his time?"

You betcha!

Give them a hand and they will ask for your arm.

I only play for free on certain ocasions, like an ex-teacher called me to play some songs at the end of last year on a recital. I got a $200 wedding after that.

I've gotten a lot of gigs off of free gigs. (I don't do freebees at bars or closed venues) Outdoor charity events offer an opportunity to get people who would never walk into a club, to hear you. In addition to agents, I invite club owners that have live music, to the event. But what I usually get is a handful of people that never heard a band do our selection and want us for a party or wedding. These people will generally pay 3 to 5 times what a nightclub will pay. I always get at least one club also, which is repeat money.
As far as the janitor getting paid, so what! Janitors are a necessity. Some charity events do get volunteers to do clean up, however.
If you can't turn the event into an effective advertisement for yourself, maybe nobody liked your act.

Dave, that's a great rant by Harlan Ellison, I hadn't seen it before.
Thanks.

Good site to help you organize your thought process: http://shouldiworkforfree.com/

And my 2 cents: "non-profit" does not equal "no pay". Ask yourself this -- are the people organizing the fundraiser getting paid? Do the administrators and workers at the "non-profit" get paid? If so, then you should get paid too, because clearly everyone isn't part of the "we're all in this together" mentality.

Damon also had some very good remarks. Kudos.

Good luck.

I've given a few private recitals and lecture-recitals for free, but they were all for colleagues/friends and/or for charity in circumstances where employing a professional pianist or other musician wasn't on the cards. There have been a few occasions when I was asked to perform in which I'd felt that a professional musician would have been more appropriate, and I had accordingly turned them down - I'd never dream of depriving someone of potential earnings even if I myself wouldn't have regarded it as a 'job' if I'd taken it on.

On the other hand, over the years, I've made a little money from photography (one of my hobbies) when I sold photos that I took on my travels and mountaineering expeditions to magazines. In those circumstances, I didn't feel that I was in the same situation as doing a concert for free in the place of a professional pianist, because noone else could have taken the photos..... . And I got paid.

This issue is such a delicate dance. I sympathize with everyone who resents the expectation so many people seem to have that they can squeeze free performances out of musicians. That kind of personal manipulation is annoying, to say the least. On the other hand, if you always seem irascible, that aura creates its own set of problems. I guess I'm an advocate of defending yourselves as professional musicians, but without having your antennae wave violently at everyone who asks for your help. Some situation sensitivity is not a bad thing.

Young people are often the most obvious targets for adult exploitation. A "kid" is usually expected to contribute their time and talent for free, and adults often use their power imbalance to exert undue pressures.

I think most professional musicians have at least occasionally donated their services for free and/or donated the proceeds from ticket sales(basically the same thing).

It's not just musicians -- if you are a professional with a skill needed by a charitable organization you support, very likely you'll get asked to contribute pro-bono at some point. That's my experience anyway. It might be designing a web site, or doing the accounts, or staffing the first-aid post at an event, whatever.

Personally, I would rather be asked to work for free than to be offered a meagre payment. In fact, taking a meagre payment sometimes creates tax problems out of all proportion to the amount involved.

I suspect that many charitable organizations simply have no idea of the amount of work involved in what seems a relatively simple job. Asking somebody to work for nothing isn't necessarily an insult -- it's no more an insult that asking somebody to support your charity through donations -- but failing to try to understand the scale of what you're asking somebody to do for nothing is pretty cheesy, in my view.

I'm going to ask my doctor if he do some surgery for free. After all, it's for charity. Or maybe I'll ask an electrician or lawyer for free services.

Many lawyers do pro bono work. Doctors sometimes work for nothing or greatly reduced fees. In fact, the Medicare fee schedule is so low that many doctors couldn't remain in business if they treated only Medicare patients (and accepted Medicare's fee schedule).

Beyond basic training, doctors don't generally do surgery. Surgery is done by surgeons. If your doctor does surgery more invasive than removing a pimple, you're probably gonna regret it

I finished reading Virtuoso a little while ago. It's a bio of John Ogdon written by his wife. If I remember correctly, Ogdon's first very serious mental breakdown was set off by a dispute with someone who said they would not be willing to pay Ogdon's expenses for a benefit concert Ogdon had agreed to play. (Ogdon did give numerous benefit performances.)

Tell me about it ....

Continuing my off-topic streak:

Umm, my wife is a doctor, but she does lots of surgery (OB-GYN). Don't know where this strange distinction comes from. Surgeons are doctors, though not all doctors are surgeons.

Now, if your internist comes at you with a scalpel, just do what the Monty Python crew urged ...

Run Away!!!!!

Oh come on. We all know that. I was trying to make a point. Don't nit-pick.

But nit-picking can be fun!

It's an English thing, I guess. Traditionally surgeons don't like to be thought of as 'doctors'. Of course, everybody who goes on to become a surgeon will have had the same basic training as internists (physicians, we would say - not sure if these terms are completely equivalent). The basic medical degree in the UK is the MBBS (or its snooty latin equivalent MBChB) -- bachelor of medicine _and_ bachelor of surgery, as if they were actually different disciplines.

I suspect in the USA the rather archaic distinction between doctor and surgeon is less substantial, as is the distinction between 'solicitor' and 'barrister' which is still enforced in the legal profession. Although that is wearing down too, these days, thank goodness.

Sorry, off-topic ramblings...

Why use incorrect examples to make a point and then complain when this is pointed out?

Many people donate their skills to humanity. My son's hand surgeon travels yearly to Central America to perform surgeries on burn victims and cleft palate kids. He might not volunteer 'at home'.

here's to all who HELP! I love playing for free.. for those who enjoy but can't pay like nursing home elders. it's fun.

That said, I don't like to be asked and would be reluctant to go to expense for those who 'ask'... but I'm not the richest kid on the block.

Could you (or anyone else) possibly elaborate on this?
How are things different, and when and why did they change?
Thanks!

I've been playing with my family's band for about six years now, mostly for free, so I can testify that you can get gigs by playing for free...but those gigs will probably not pay either. I just do it for kicks at this point, because there's definitely no profit in playing bluegrass in little country churches.

As a senior in high school entering music school next year ( ) , I'm just starting to get paying gigs by myself. Honestly, I'm still trying to wrap my head around the idea of getting paid to play music. Really, how much better can it get??

Remember a few years ago when the US economy almost collapsed, ... does that strike a bell?, it was in all the newspapers.

That affected just about every field. In most situations background music is an extra, icing on the cake. The icing is the first to go when times get bad.

I never had to go looking for work until a few years ago. Work always came to me ... until a few years ago.

I'm sure you must have read the near collapse of the US economy and how that affected the rest of the world.

But you're not in the U.S. Oh, wait a minute, I forgot, we're responsible for everyone's economy.

... but not for the nits, I suspect!

Yes, unfortunately banks all over the world bought those bad loans from US banks. Too bad there wasn't more governmental oversight over the financial industry.

I think we're all familiar with the recession, but it's interesting to hear a working professional musician's perspective on how the recession affects the performance industry. Was it a sudden change, or have budgets gradually tightened over time? Do you expect things will ever "get back to normal," or do you think that mindsets have shifted permanently?

Government oversight was part of the cause. And government bailouts will ensure it happens again.

Anyway, the live music scene has been slowing steadily for decades. The recession may have been a big nail in it's coffin, but at least in the US, many other factors are helping it along, not the least of which is an intolerance for any risky behavior.

The live music scene has radically changed in the past 20 years.

Its been a combination of many factors, many of which began with the digital age, and the ability for anybody to make their own decent audio quality CDs in their basement and distribute them on the web, all without big record companies and their PR departments.

So the good and the bad of music is available globally, whereas before only the pros (read "generally better") got record contracts.

Other factors include the easy ability to rip music from the web and from other CDs and make perfect copies, to the band Radiohead giving away their CDs for whatever price people wanted to pay including free, to Karaoke and DJs and the digital equipment they have that allows them to put on a good one-man show.

As for background music people can load hours of music on their tiny iPod, create an album custom for the venue, run it thru a cheap PA, and have quality background music. Try that with a load of LPs or 8 tracks, or even cassettes which must be constantly attended to.

Also, many other ready entertainment options exist that were not there in the old days, such as Movies on demand at your home TV, the ability to watch movies or listen to music on your cell phone, YouTube, and the resulting social changes that reduce the importance and demand by the public on "live music".

This is just a sample of the changing music industry scene. Some others are Samplers, Drum Machines, Synths, etc, that allow one or two people to sound like an entire band, or one singer to sound like a chorus line. All enabled by the digital age. (I am not anti-digital, just trying to explain something)

No one really understands where this is all going, other than acknowledging that the old ways of doing things have fallen by the wayside.

This all started long before the recent recession. I felt its effects as a working musician during the boom times prior to the latest bust.

Bars that used to hire a full band went to duos and singles acts and their digital gizmos that were supposed to sound the same as a band, but for less money. Club owners/managers liked that.

But it isn't the same, and this caused the bars/venues to lose customers, so they resorted to cheaper music sources such as DJs, or weekend warrior amateurs, which caused them to lose even more customers, etc.

Thus, to blame "the economy" for the non-hiring of bands/musicians without taking these (and other) factors into consideration is a simplistic and weak argument. The economic downturn is one of many factors of what amounts to a sea change of music, its distribution, and entertainment in general.

I'm glad I wasn't trying to make that argument. But you forgot to add in the increase of DUI enforcement, the aging baby boomers, and for some reason, the increase in the number of musicians who think it's about the music.

I think we're all familiar with the recession, but it's interesting to hear a working professional musician's perspective on how the recession affects the performance industry. Was it a sudden change, or have budgets gradually tightened over time? Do you expect things will ever "get back to normal," or do you think that mindsets have shifted permanently?

I used to play 10 or 12 evenings a year, special evenings - reservations needed, special evening buffets - for a well known chain of Dutch hotels. That stopped at once. They even canceled some of those special evenings since there were not enough reservations to make it profitable for them with or without music.

I used to play 10 to 12 times per year for a well known Dutch company, evenings where the top management would meet for a working dinner or just a relatively quiet evening where the top management (from all locations) would meet for a dinner and I would play the piano before, after, and between the courses. When that company laid off many of its workers they felt it wouldn't look good to continue those expensive evenings, thus more cutbacks. Ten to 12 jobs per year on average, now one; two years ago, zero.

Private parties, parties where folks would think it a good idea to hire a piano player or a trio, nothing. I could always count on a few of those type jobs a year, not anymore.

I never had to look for work, never, work always came to me. That changed two years ago.

I realize that in general the music scene has changed. Back in the 70's I supported a wife and two kids from simply working nights in a trio. The number of places now that have live music are few and far between and the type of music for the most part is not what I would be interested in.

There's an evening jam session every two weeks not too far from where I live. This takes place in a fair sized café, it can hold between 100 and 150 people. They will have a mini big band perform and afterwards a combo. No one gets paid. For many musicians, amateurs especially, just the joy of performing is enough to keep them happy. As long as musicians will offer their talents for nothing, why should a club owner even consider paying?

A fair question, but I'm not sure that this situation has changed as a result of our current economic problems. It's _always_ been difficult to justify paying for something is somebody will do it for nothing -- that's just sound business sense.

Of course, I can see how the situation has become more _visible_ to working musicians, now that other sources of work have been reduced.

Within a 25 mile radius of where I live there are dozens of jams. The musicians do not get paid, but someone does. Someone provides the PA and the back line of amps, mics and drums, and runs/emcees the event. Thats a lot of time and work and expensive equipment to offer for free every week.

That person gets paid about as much as a solo act would, but the venue gets many people there to perform, plus their friends and family. So the venue gets a lot more bang for their buck.

There have always been jams, but not this number. Ten years ago there were a few here and there. Now there are too many to keep track of.

Another aspect of the changing times.

There have always been places like this and there have always been bands (especially young ones trying to get attention) willing to do it. The fact they can continue to afford operating this way while other establishments fail is no surprise. A club owner pays for the musician to draw customers. Hotels were the first to start dropping live entertainment (around here) long before the recession. When Bill Clinton was president.

Maybe at your next gig, you can wear one of those tacky hats that British royalty enjoy and get some attention.

This whole discussion is very interesting to me, especially because I began marketing myself as a solo pianist only about two years, so I have nothing to compare it to.

Just curious, are there ways it used to work to try to get jobs, but those tactics are no longer effective?

Or really, what I'm asking is, in light in the current situation, what are the best ways to market oneself and try to find work?

It sounds like people here are split on whether or not doing a free gig will bring in paid work.

Redhead, I once offered my services at no cost for one evening at a restaurant close by. At the end of the evening I was given two bottles of wine I believe. I was called shortly thereafter and worked somewhat steadily for three years for that restaurant. That was about 15 years ago. I still get an occasional job from that restaurant for a private party but no work directly for the restaurant. (I also did them a favor a few years back. There was a mix up and they thought they had hired a piano player for a private party but didn't. They gave me a last minute call and I walked in minutes later. I have a good relationship with that restaurant but there simply isn't any work.)

Offer your services for free for three hours, but don't offer those services on a day like Mother's Day or Valentine's Day or Easter, etc., don't make it too attractive for them, just attractive enough. Don't play for free for a hotel or restaurant for a private party, play for the house.

It doesn't hurt to have business cards made up and a professional folder. I had cards made up by a local printer and the results were less than ideal. You'd think people who do work like that for a living would have a better eye for layout. I had to correct obvious placements. I recently had new cards made up and did it online where I got to choose the placement of the information. I was very happy with my results ... and it was cheaper as well.

If I were in desperate need of money I know I could always play on a cruise line. That might have seemed attractive thirty years ago, but not for me today ... and it doesn't pay all that well.