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#1577611 - 12/16/10 01:17 AM Roland hp307 ivory feel key scratches  
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Rui725 Offline
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Hi guys

Here's my dilemma.

1. Purchased HP 307 8/10/2010
2. 1-year warranty from Roland
3. 2 months in, I can feel scratches on the PHA III Ivory feel white keys of the middle register. I keep my nails trimmed at all times.
3. Now, at 5 months in, I have reached a limit as the scratch feels more and more evident.
4. I call Roland and complain. They said I have to pay for each key that I want to replace. Each key is around 8 dollars. I want to replace the middle register keys.
5. I have to pay for the keys themselves but they won't charge me for the importing fee and man hours for replacement, as that is covered by warranty.

Question: Anyone have similar experiences can got these keys for free? What kind of cheap material leaves scratch marks after only 5 months of use, I bet Roland knows of this design flaw but just BS's the customer into thinking that this is normal. This not normal.

Last edited by Rui725; 12/16/10 01:25 AM.
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#1577749 - 12/16/10 07:02 AM Re: Roland hp307 ivory feel key scratches [Re: Rui725]  
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I had the same problem with my PHAII keyboard, but I found my own Roland UK support to be excellent and a technician replaced the whole keybed onsite for free.

This is certainly a flaw they are aware of and the entire keybed needs to be changed as this will happen to all keys eventually. It is a fault with the ivory keytop material, where pitting and wear of the keytop can happen. It eventually becomes too rough and irritating to play.

If your piano is under warranty, you should arrange to get the whole keybed changed like i did. Make sure they give you the latest revision of the keybed.

I would not advise changing individual keys. Firstly, it will be extremely difficult to do anyway, the entire keybed needs to be taken out so you have to unscrew your piano first, and then you would have the hassle of taking the keybed apart to get access to the keys. This is a job best left for Roland to do.

Last edited by bobbo; 12/16/10 07:15 AM.
#1577792 - 12/16/10 08:46 AM Re: Roland hp307 ivory feel key scratches [Re: Rui725]  
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There seems to be some kind of double standard. I'd be interested to here what a Roland rep has to say about this. Are there any one that works for Roland on this board?

#1577818 - 12/16/10 09:36 AM Re: Roland hp307 ivory feel key scratches [Re: Rui725]  
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I had an RD700GX for about two years, one of the first ones into the UK. I noticed some a slight wear patina on the keys but nothing of the kind of damage described above. I do find it disturbing that this is a problem Roland does not appear to have fixed, two years on. And what's equally disturbing is that the company's policy on replacing these appears to have shifted, from no-questions-asked free replacement to $8 a key.

I can't help but contrast that with the service I received from Yamaha earlier this year. I have an ancient 2-series Clavinova CVP on which the keyboard had gone very noisy and one key was sticking (actually, broken). Ringing Yamaha, they confirmed that there had been a manufacturing defect on the keybed fitted to this piano and despite it being way out of warranty, they not only replaced it free of charge but sent a technician to my house to do the work, again at zero cost to me. Now THAT'S service!


Live: Casio PX-5S | Hammond SK1
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#1577844 - 12/16/10 10:10 AM Re: Roland hp307 ivory feel key scratches [Re: Aidan]  
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Originally Posted by Aidan
equally disturbing is that the company's policy on replacing these appears to have shifted, from no-questions-asked free replacement to $8 a key.


My experience of Roland support is excellent and I have only good things to say about them.

Any product under warranty, especially the top of the range 307 can be expected to have keys that last the lifespan of the piano, not 5 months as the OP has experienced which will only get worse with more use. The keytop roughening should NOT happen and in this case Roland are obligated to replace the entire keybed, not doing so would be a breach of their warranty contract.

#1577896 - 12/16/10 11:50 AM Re: Roland hp307 ivory feel key scratches [Re: Rui725]  
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spanishbuddha Online content
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Unacceptable response by Roland IMHO.

What country are you in? Maybe you can use local consumer laws to redress? In the UK there is a law covering 'fit for purpose'.

But don't you have a warranty? What does that cover and for how long?

#1577908 - 12/16/10 12:09 PM Re: Roland hp307 ivory feel key scratches [Re: Rui725]  
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I'm in Taiwan. I was issued a warranty card but doesn't say what it covers, except for the date, which is 1 year, which is still in effect They said they covered electronic problems and would replace anything wrong with them for free.

I had a feeling I'm dealing with a bunch of Electrical engineers when I was on the phone with them. These people don't understand how that the feel of the keys is so important. But, I'm not going to stop bugging them until I get new keys.

They said they only sell on average of 4 hp307's a month here and have never heard of complaints. I am trying to collect as many resources online to see if others with similar experiences, albeit on a different continent, got free replacements of the entire keyboard under warranty. OK, I'm going to stop here, getting fired up just thinking about these people.

#1577934 - 12/16/10 12:47 PM Re: Roland hp307 ivory feel key scratches [Re: Rui725]  
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Maybe you got off on the wrong foot somehow and they thought you only wanted some of the keys replaced?

I think I'd try regular mail to Roland central and have it percolate down the ranks to the local yokels. Nicely and politely demand a replacement of the entire key assembly or even a new DP. You don't want any of those high wear keys in your DP.

#1577955 - 12/16/10 01:10 PM Re: Roland hp307 ivory feel key scratches [Re: Rui725]  
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Originally Posted by Rui725
They said they only sell on average of 4 hp307's a month here and have never heard of complaints.


That's ridiculous - it's a well-documented problem which Roland themselves have admitted to.


Live: Casio PX-5S | Hammond SK1
Studio: Yamaha CP4 | Hammond SK2 | Kurzweil PC361 | Moog Sub 37
#1577979 - 12/16/10 02:00 PM Re: Roland hp307 ivory feel key scratches [Re: Aidan]  
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Originally Posted by Aidan
Originally Posted by Rui725
They said they only sell on average of 4 hp307's a month here and have never heard of complaints.


That's ridiculous - it's a well-documented problem which Roland themselves have admitted to.


But its not a common problem, some people are unlucky to get the chalky keytop material. I've played some demo models of the 207 and 307 series which have a had a good battering and plenty of use in the piano stores, and the keys are still in tip top condition but just a bit dirty.

To the OP, you must get the whole keybed replaced by a technician. It is under warranty and disintegrating keytops are not a part of the package you originally paid for.

Also, do the warranty claim direct with Roland, not the retailer. When your purchased your piano you should have subscribed to the Roland warranty service with the serial # of your piano.

Last edited by bobbo; 12/16/10 02:04 PM.
#1578023 - 12/16/10 03:05 PM Re: Roland hp307 ivory feel key scratches [Re: Rui725]  
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Rui725, sorry you're having problems with your HP307 already. I've had my RD700GXF coming up on two years (was a regular GX for the first year or more), and I practice around 2-3 hours everyday on it. I've experienced no problems at all with key wear. My keys are a little rougher than a new PHAII/III Ivory Feel keys, but it's not anything like what some on here complain about. I play really hard as well, and actually, I had 2 Yamahas with messed up keybeds, which was initially why I started looking at other brands. My P80 and CP300 key beds were terrible. The P80 was fixed on Yamaha's dime thankfully, but I got rid of my CP300. Good luck repairing your keys.


Yamaha AvantGrand N1
Nord Piano 2


"Be who you are and say how you feel. Because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss
#1578098 - 12/16/10 05:08 PM Re: Roland hp307 ivory feel key scratches [Re: Rui725]  
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I think it's down to where you live (Roland's response - not the key wear!)...in the UK I think Roland work pretty hard at dealing properly with customer's issues. When you buy a piano you get the chance to deal directly with a single nominated relationship manager throughout your ownership of your Roland product. The warranty is also good in the UK - a comprehensive three year guarantee.

Despite all this, if you have defective key surfaces Roland should replace the entire assembly in my opinion. This is a problem that affects a minority of Roland ivory keys...but it is a problem nonetheless. Hopefully, reports of problems on the newer products will diminish and Roland can put these issues behind them...one thing's for sure, if they don't meet customers' expectations in replacing defective keyboards the problem will erode trust and will cause long term damage to Roland's reputation.

Cheers,

Steve

#1578458 - 12/17/10 02:02 AM Re: Roland hp307 ivory feel key scratches [Re: Rui725]  
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I really hope that this is just an isolated issue, or will be rectified in the new RD700NX model-- I am on the fence between this model and the Kawai MP10. Couple this key wear issue with the problem of noisy keys, I might just go for the Kawai for a peace of mind, barring the apparent weight issue with Kawai...

Why can't there be a perfect piano??!!

Last edited by Othello; 12/17/10 02:03 AM.
#1660562 - 04/15/11 10:22 AM Re: Roland hp307 ivory feel key scratches [Re: Othello]  
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I own an HP307 as well and I have had the keyboard replaced once already and it's happening again. I'm being proposed one more keyboard replacement for a keyboard with the regular plastic ones.

Not a problem for me as long as it's still the PHA III model.

Roland apparently blames it on the oils and acidity on the fingers of certain people. I think this is a major problem that if unresolved could really hurt their reputation in regards to the Ivory Feel Keyboard. I can't even recommend it right now because of the issues I've had.

#1660571 - 04/15/11 10:35 AM Re: Roland hp307 ivory feel key scratches [Re: Rui725]  
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I've messaged with a couple of members owning v-piano and other PHAIII boards.
The earlier models have those problems. .. keywear etc... Apparently, they replace it with newer boards which should fix it. Maybe some are replaced before they got the updated boards, so experiencing the same problems.

By the way,
Roland offers now 3 years of warranty, since a couple of months. I think they will be not mentioning it too much after that year + 2...

Last edited by WingNL; 04/15/11 10:36 AM.

Kawai K1 MK2, Roland V-Piano, Focusrite LE interface, 2 custom (cheap)Telecasters, and a lot of softsynths!
#1660578 - 04/15/11 10:50 AM Re: Roland hp307 ivory feel key scratches [Re: Aidan]  
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Originally Posted by Aidan
I had an RD700GX for about two years, one of the first ones into the UK. I noticed some a slight wear patina on the keys but nothing of the kind of damage described above. I do find it disturbing that this is a problem Roland does not appear to have fixed, two years on. And what's equally disturbing is that the company's policy on replacing these appears to have shifted, from no-questions-asked free replacement to $8 a key.

I can't help but contrast that with the service I received from Yamaha earlier this year. I have an ancient 2-series Clavinova CVP on which the keyboard had gone very noisy and one key was sticking (actually, broken). Ringing Yamaha, they confirmed that there had been a manufacturing defect on the keybed fitted to this piano and despite it being way out of warranty, they not only replaced it free of charge but sent a technician to my house to do the work, again at zero cost to me. Now THAT'S service!


Yeah Aidan, actually it's going on 3 years now as the RD-700GX was first shown at NAMM 2008. Surprised they haven't fixed that yet.

Speaking of customer service, my sustain pedal on my NP88 broke last night at rehearsal. The spring broke on it so it only stay down. I contacted Nord via their website last night when I got home around 9:45pm CST. Their tech support guy emailed me back in 30 mins, then an hour later forwarded me his email to AM&S to take care of it immediately. Every single time I contact Nord, I get a prompt and courteous response. Their service is the best I've seen no matter what industry. Just another reason why I'm become a total Nord convert.


Yamaha AvantGrand N1
Nord Piano 2


"Be who you are and say how you feel. Because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss
#1660602 - 04/15/11 11:21 AM Re: Roland hp307 ivory feel key scratches [Re: PGeoff]  
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Originally Posted by PGeoff
I own an HP307 as well and I have had the keyboard replaced once already and it's happening again. I'm being proposed one more keyboard replacement for a keyboard with the regular plastic ones.

Sorry for the trouble you've gone through PGeoff, but that's a pretty awesome offer. I wish it were an option we could have had when initially buying the NX. (We haven't had any trouble with the ivory feel keys, but it hasn't seen much real use yet.)

#1667288 - 04/27/11 05:06 AM Re: Roland hp307 ivory feel key scratches [Re: Rui725]  
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I'm having the same issue with my RD-700 NX (The latest one) I've only been seriously playing it for a few weeks now since they fixed the note stealing problem, and I can feel and see the scratches on a few notes near middle C. It's really annoying, if this is what it's like after a few weeks, what will it be like in a few years!?

I was finally happy with the NX after this software fix as well. I have the warranty (and an extra 2 years) So I wonder if/when it gets to a stage where they really are BAD, I'd be able to get a replacement??? Because surely it's not my fault. My honky tonk downstairs that is years old has no scratches and it's had a good bashing!

Although it's good if they do replace the keys, but won't it just happen again?? And you can't keep going on replacing keys every month.. very frustrating! Wonder what'll happen....

#1667291 - 04/27/11 05:22 AM Re: Roland hp307 ivory feel key scratches [Re: Othello]  
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Originally Posted by Othello
I really hope that this is just an isolated issue, or will be rectified in the new RD700NX model-- I am on the fence between this model and the Kawai MP10. Couple this key wear issue with the problem of noisy keys, I might just go for the Kawai for a peace of mind, barring the apparent weight issue with Kawai...

Why can't there be a perfect piano??!!


It it is peace of mind you are looking for, you might want to reconsider:
http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1652861/3.html

Last edited by theJourney; 04/27/11 05:57 AM.
#1667293 - 04/27/11 05:30 AM Re: Roland hp307 ivory feel key scratches [Re: Rui725]  
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theJourney, the post that you are replying to was written over four months ago.

Cheers,
James
x



Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#1667298 - 04/27/11 05:56 AM Re: Roland hp307 ivory feel key scratches [Re: Rui725]  
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I meant to reference the entire thread.

#1667346 - 04/27/11 08:42 AM Re: Roland hp307 ivory feel key scratches [Re: Rui725]  
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Hello
Thought I'd share my experience on this topic having bought
a Roland HP307 PE 14 months ago. Started noticing a roughening
in the commonly used middle register area a few weeks ago . .
on closer inspection . . displays all the classic Key top wear
as described here and elsewhere. . Not happy at all on a 3K DP . . Anyway, contacted Thomann in Germany ( they gave a 2 year warranty ) and it's shipping back to them from the UK in the next week or so . .Why they couldn't just send a Roland engineer out from the UK is beyond me . .but at least they are going to resolve the problem, I hope, let you know how it goes.

#1667408 - 04/27/11 11:17 AM Re: Roland hp307 ivory feel key scratches [Re: Rui725]  
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So this is still an issue? I Was planning on picking up a HP-305 =/

#1667855 - 04/28/11 05:56 AM Re: Roland hp307 ivory feel key scratches [Re: Rui725]  
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There's a load of folks on the Roland forums with similar experiences . . I'm
a bit concerned about the guy who had 3 replacement Keyboards from Roland, all
of which had the same Key top wear within a short period . . .Has Roland fixed this
problem . .does anyone know ? I love the action on the Rolands but cannot help
but feel I should have stuck with Yamaha now.

#1667862 - 04/28/11 06:29 AM Re: Roland hp307 ivory feel key scratches [Re: jarrett42]  
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Originally Posted by jarrett42
There's a load of folks on the Roland forums with similar experiences . . I'm
a bit concerned about the guy who had 3 replacement Keyboards from Roland, all
of which had the same Key top wear within a short period . . .Has Roland fixed this
problem . .does anyone know ? I love the action on the Rolands but cannot help
but feel I should have stuck with Yamaha now.


Back in December, I had to call Roland because of the key wear
problem on my HP-305.

10 days later, a technician was at my home to replace all the white keys. I am happy to say that after 3 months, the keys are still in perfect condition.

I have to say I got great service from Roland.

Hope this help

Regards



Self taught adult beginner since September 2009 ( Man, I REALLY need a teacher ... )
Roland HP-305
#1667933 - 04/28/11 09:44 AM Re: Roland hp307 ivory feel key scratches [Re: jarrett42]  
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Originally Posted by jarrett42
There's a load of folks on the Roland forums with similar experiences . . I'm
a bit concerned about the guy who had 3 replacement Keyboards from Roland, all
of which had the same Key top wear within a short period . . .Has Roland fixed this
problem . .does anyone know ? I love the action on the Rolands but cannot help
but feel I should have stuck with Yamaha now.


I think it must still be a problem, seen as though it's happening with my NX which is the latest of their stage pianos. I don't know if Cohenfan just got lucky when all the keys were replaced and are now okay... why should they be okay and not the new ones being used on the NX?! Crazy.

Even if I did get a replacement, it would only fix it for a few weeks, so it doesn't seem worth it!

#1667974 - 04/28/11 10:53 AM Re: Roland hp307 ivory feel key scratches [Re: RolandRD2000]  
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Originally Posted by JHbackingtracks
Originally Posted by jarrett42
There's a load of folks on the Roland forums with similar experiences . . I'm
a bit concerned about the guy who had 3 replacement Keyboards from Roland, all
of which had the same Key top wear within a short period . . .Has Roland fixed this
problem . .does anyone know ? I love the action on the Rolands but cannot help
but feel I should have stuck with Yamaha now.


I think it must still be a problem, seen as though it's happening with my NX which is the latest of their stage pianos. I don't know if Cohenfan just got lucky when all the keys were replaced and are now okay... why should they be okay and not the new ones being used on the NX?! Crazy.

Even if I did get a replacement, it would only fix it for a few weeks, so it doesn't seem worth it!



I agree with you, it is kind of crazy because it seems there is no logic concerning this particular problem.

For now, I decided to keep my piano considering that I just love the touch and sound of this piano and, as of right now, I feel the competition do not have something better IMHO.

This summer, I plan to go try the new CLP-Series from Yamaha hoping it will be a big improvement over there current models.

For now, I just hope I won't have to deal with this problem anymore. So far so good ...

Regards



Self taught adult beginner since September 2009 ( Man, I REALLY need a teacher ... )
Roland HP-305
#1682991 - 05/23/11 09:50 AM Re: Roland hp307 ivory feel key scratches [Re: Rui725]  
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Update for those of you interested in the Roland Ivory feel key top wear issue !

My Hp307 is now enroute back from Thomann, Germany . . They seemingly just shipped
the unit on to Roland for repair . . They say a replacement keyboard has been fitted . .
despite my sending 3 emails explaining that Roland have been fitting the same (
if not similar ) keyboards for other customers that have displayed the same wear
symptoms soon after replacement .. . Sofar they have dodged my requests for detailed
information regarding this problem. My last email to them simply asked for an assurance
that Roland has solved the problem and are not fitting keyboards with this proven design flaw .. .
No response from Thomann . . .

If this replacement board soon starts showing signs of wear, and i'll be monitoring this closely .. .
This piano will be be on a one way journey back to Germany. . . I'll let you know soon !

#1684513 - 05/25/11 05:41 PM Re: Roland hp307 ivory feel key scratches [Re: Rui725]  
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I got HP307, exact same issue with keys, they had bad wear after a matter of months! rang Roland and they sorted it out, whole new keyboard replaced smile you must register your piano on the Roland website to get full 3 year warranty (well in UK anyway).

There is no way you have to pay for the keys if you are still in warranty, period. There is no excuse possible for them not to send a person round to your house to fix your issue.

Also I must add, the new keyboard is fine, no visible wear at all, and thats after playing it more than before (and with longer fingernails) and for a good few months again now.

They must have fixed the issue with the keyboards wear, well I seriously doubt thats the case actually, maybe I was just luckier this time.


#1684532 - 05/25/11 06:17 PM Re: Roland hp307 ivory feel key scratches [Re: Rui725]  
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For the record, I use my FP7F heavily (hours a day) and I see no wear. It's been 6 months.

So I'm hoping this issue has been resolved.


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