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The future of piano technique. #1655215
04/05/11 05:24 PM
04/05/11 05:24 PM
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Butters109 Offline OP
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I've always found it fascinating to look at how piano technique has evolved over the centuries. Different eras have very different techniques involved in playing their compositions, and each subsequent era has continued to evolve these techniques. Just look at the progression from Bach to Beethoven to Chopin/Liszt to Debussy/Ravel/Rachmaninoff, and it seems like the limits just keep getting pushed further and further. Where do you think technique as a whole is heading today?

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Re: The future of piano technique. [Re: Butters109] #1655217
04/05/11 05:29 PM
04/05/11 05:29 PM
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Kuanpiano Offline
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I'll be a bit cynical, but if nobody bothers to play anything written after Rachmaninoff or Prokofiev, probably nowhere unfortunately..

Last edited by Kuanpiano; 04/05/11 05:31 PM.

Working on:
Chopin - Nocturne op. 48 no.1
Debussy - Images Book II

Re: The future of piano technique. [Re: Butters109] #1655223
04/05/11 05:39 PM
04/05/11 05:39 PM
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prepared piano is a relatively modern concept, isn't it? It may be seen as gimmicky right now, but it may eventually become more standard.

Re: The future of piano technique. [Re: Butters109] #1655232
04/05/11 05:51 PM
04/05/11 05:51 PM
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I think most forum members would be hard pressed to play a transcription of the above. The fun stuff starts at 4:50.


website | mp3 files | Yamaha AvantGrand N3 | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
Re: The future of piano technique. [Re: Kuanpiano] #1655250
04/05/11 06:16 PM
04/05/11 06:16 PM
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Manchester, UK
debrucey Offline
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Originally Posted by Kuanpiano
I'll be a bit cynical, but if nobody bothers to play anything written after Rachmaninoff or Prokofiev, probably nowhere unfortunately..


Agree!

Re: The future of piano technique. [Re: Dave Horne] #1655251
04/05/11 06:17 PM
04/05/11 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Horne

I think most forum members would be hard pressed to play a transcription of the above. The fun stuff starts at 4:50.


Yeh it's difficult but I cant see anything technique-wise that is beyond Liszt.

Re: The future of piano technique. [Re: Butters109] #1655334
04/05/11 08:36 PM
04/05/11 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Butters109
Rachmaninoff, and it seems like the limits just keep getting pushed further and further. Where do you think technique as a whole is heading today?


I think it's heading in the wrong direction.

Technique seems to have moved towards the hands and away from the ears and imagination. People have incredible facility in their hands and fingers, yet I find an alarming number of pianists have horrible aural skills and are completely uninterested in the artistic and historical context of the music they claim to enjoy.

For the future, I'd like to see pianists have less fingers and more imagination.


"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

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Re: The future of piano technique. [Re: Kreisler] #1655339
04/05/11 08:54 PM
04/05/11 08:54 PM
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Phoenix, Arizona
Carey Offline
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Originally Posted by Kreisler


I think it's heading in the wrong direction.

Technique seems to have moved towards the hands and away from the ears and imagination. People have incredible facility in their hands and fingers, yet I find an alarming number of pianists have horrible aural skills and are completely uninterested in the artistic and historical context of the music they claim to enjoy.



Too many technicians - too few real musicians.

Why do you think this is happening ???


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Re: The future of piano technique. [Re: Butters109] #1655342
04/05/11 08:59 PM
04/05/11 08:59 PM
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WhoDwaldi Offline
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A few years ago, one of the Cliburn judges said something like, "I keep seeing fingers, fingers, fingers, when I want to hear music, music, music!"


WhoDwaldi
Howard (by Kawai) 5' 10"
Re: The future of piano technique. [Re: WhoDwaldi] #1655352
04/05/11 09:12 PM
04/05/11 09:12 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 9,314
Phoenix, Arizona
Carey Offline
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Originally Posted by WhoDwaldi
A few years ago, one of the Cliburn judges said something like, "I keep seeing fingers, fingers, fingers, when I want to hear music, music, music!"


thumb thumb thumb


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Re: The future of piano technique. [Re: Butters109] #1655359
04/05/11 09:24 PM
04/05/11 09:24 PM
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the piano has pretty much settled itself for over a hundred years--technique won't be evolving much more. we will gain more understanding of stuff like physiology and correct some improper techniques, but that's about it.

the next step is the electric piano. but that's not a mechanical piano, i suppose. there are electric features on mechanical piano these days so...


Re: The future of piano technique. [Re: Butters109] #1655409
04/05/11 10:41 PM
04/05/11 10:41 PM
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RealPlayer Offline
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Technique is being driven by composers who are pushing the envelope. Xenakis and Ferneyhough come to mind. Some of that music, broadly speaking, is unplayable, but stretches the pianist's technique and imagination to realize a performance. In a sense, the composers are less interested in your "getting all the notes" than how you deal with the difficulties. "Do what you can" is a common response by many composers.

I'm reading a book on the performance of Xenakis' music, with articles by his favorite performers. They admit that in their early performances, they got maybe 65% of the notes, then gradually increased their batting average. And these are top players.

I'm remembering that as an undergrad, I checked out the Ives Concord Sonata from the library and wondered how it could ever really be played. That was in the 1960s. Now it's no big deal, for any competent player, technically. Of course, you still have to understand the music!

Re: The future of piano technique. [Re: Kreisler] #1655411
04/05/11 10:43 PM
04/05/11 10:43 PM
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Pacific Northwest, US.
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Originally Posted by Kreisler


For the future, I'd like to see pianists have less fingers and more imagination.

Aw Kreisler, come on mate, you cannot project 'imagination' without the most fully developed fingers. The most imaginative pianists ever experienced on this planet- Liszt, Busoni, Rachmaninov, Hofmann, Friedman, Horowitz, Richter, Michelangeli, Argerich- could never have worked their magic without an utterly awesome set of fingers.

I shudder to think what Schnabel would have accomplished with his Beethoven recordings if his technique had still been on a par with the legendary reports from his Berlin years.


Jason
Re: The future of piano technique. [Re: Butters109] #1655412
04/05/11 10:45 PM
04/05/11 10:45 PM
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Ohio
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survivordan Offline
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I agree that technique and musicality have become too much of two distinct ideas. They need to be re-integrated into one idea that will really allow the mechanics of the piano (techniques) to speak and communicate the real message behind the notes (musicality).


Working On:

BACH: Invention No. 13 in a min.
GRIEG: Notturno Op. 54 No. 4
VILLA-LOBOS: O Polichinelo

Next Up:

BACH: Keyboard Concerto in f minor
Re: The future of piano technique. [Re: Kuanpiano] #1655444
04/05/11 11:25 PM
04/05/11 11:25 PM
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Pacific Northwest, US.
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argerichfan Offline
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Originally Posted by Kuanpiano
I'll be a bit cynical, but if nobody bothers to play anything written after Rachmaninoff or Prokofiev, probably nowhere unfortunately..

No disagreement, though I find the current repertoire in your signature slightly ironic. Or maybe I'm just cynical? wink

Good that you're listening to the Messiaen.

Myself, I've always praised Carter's Night Fantasies. I love that music -it takes several listenings to sort it- and hope to hear it in concert someday. I have a score to Carter's piano concerto, but so far I don't quite 'get it'.


Jason
Re: The future of piano technique. [Re: Butters109] #1655695
04/06/11 12:30 PM
04/06/11 12:30 PM
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Canada
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Kuanpiano Offline
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Yes it is!! Though next up will very hopefully pushing it a bit more. I'm still young, and my musical tastes are well....moving away from the 1800s into the 20th century and it's very exciting!


Working on:
Chopin - Nocturne op. 48 no.1
Debussy - Images Book II

Re: The future of piano technique. [Re: Butters109] #1655700
04/06/11 12:40 PM
04/06/11 12:40 PM
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MusicBeats Offline
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Originally Posted by Butters109
I've always found it fascinating to look at how piano technique has evolved over the centuries. Different eras have very different techniques involved in playing their compositions, and each subsequent era has continued to evolve these techniques. Just look at the progression from Bach to Beethoven to Chopin/Liszt to Debussy/Ravel/Rachmaninoff, and it seems like the limits just keep getting pushed further and further. Where do you think technique as a whole is heading today?



There is no future for piano technique, even for music i should say..... simple as that.

Re: The future of piano technique. [Re: argerichfan] #1655730
04/06/11 01:32 PM
04/06/11 01:32 PM
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rocket88 Offline
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Originally Posted by argerichfan
Originally Posted by Kreisler


For the future, I'd like to see pianists have less fingers and more imagination.

Aw Kreisler, come on mate, you cannot project 'imagination' without the most fully developed fingers. The most imaginative pianists ever experienced on this planet- Liszt, Busoni, Rachmaninov, Hofmann, Friedman, Horowitz, Richter, Michelangeli, Argerich- could never have worked their magic without an utterly awesome set of fingers.


Thats exactly right. The best musicality playing is like a coin with two sides...Technique for the ability to play the notes, and an ear/mind/understanding of the music to play the music part of the notes.

When either one is overly strong the music is unbalanced, tilted towards either mechanical perfection w/o the "music", or a sad attempt to play the music without the physical ability to do so.


Piano teacher.
Re: The future of piano technique. [Re: Dave Horne] #1655770
04/06/11 02:40 PM
04/06/11 02:40 PM
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Posts: 89
Belgium
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octurn Offline
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Originally Posted by Dave Horne

I think most forum members would be hard pressed to play a transcription of the above. The fun stuff starts at 4:50.


That was most enjoyable!
It made me remember this particular one:

h

Be sure to stay tuned at 4:00

However I'm actually more into the new, more intimate Rubacalba than the technical beast he used to be...


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Re: The future of piano technique. [Re: Butters109] #1655781
04/06/11 02:53 PM
04/06/11 02:53 PM
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Posts: 292
Utah
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I think now there is less tendency to adhere to "schools" of technique and more of just doing what one wants to get what one wants. As Bruce Lee said, "Use no method as method. Use no limitation as limitation." But also, "Do not deny the classical approach, simply as a reaction, or you will have created another pattern and trapped yourself there."

Besides that, I don't see technique going anywhere. It's just an interface one uses to interact with the piano. The ultimate act is still making music.


One111
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