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/At what age do people usually get grade 8 abrsm in piano #1654086
04/04/11 03:24 AM
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/At what age do people usually get grade 8 abrsm in piano?

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Re: /At what age do people usually get grade 8 abrsm in piano [Re: Gould] #1654088
04/04/11 03:34 AM
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The age at which they reach said level.



"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

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Re: /At what age do people usually get grade 8 abrsm in piano [Re: stores] #1654089
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Re: /At what age do people usually get grade 8 abrsm in piano [Re: Gould] #1654090
04/04/11 03:42 AM
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If you don't have it by age 5, chances are you'll never earn it.

But seriously. While asking questions is wonderful, yours are always about nearly the same thing or are just plain...I don't even know the word for it.

Don't fret what the average age is. However long it takes you to get there is how long it will take.


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I teach piano and violin.
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Re: /At what age do people usually get grade 8 abrsm in piano [Re: ll] #1654096
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Originally Posted by ll
However long it takes you to get there is how long it will take.


My point exactly.



"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $

Re: /At what age do people usually get grade 8 abrsm in piano [Re: Gould] #1654114
04/04/11 05:51 AM
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While I agree with the above, a more pragmatic answer might be: typically 8-10 years with diligent practice (a hour a day or so). I've heard of it being achieved quicker than this -- sometimes much quicker -- but I'm not sure it's such a great idea.

Just my $0.02, as always, but I believe that learning to make music and learning to pass music exams are very different things.

Re: /At what age do people usually get grade 8 abrsm in piano [Re: kevinb] #1654121
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Originally Posted by kevinb
learning to make music and learning to pass music exams are very different things.


Truer words were never spoken.

There is nothing worse than a kid who can only sort of play his three " songs " for his upcoming exam, but isn't making music, developing a repertoire or doing anything but end-gaming for the exam pass.

On the other hand, I know of adult beginners who passed ABRSM Grade 8 after five years of lessons, practicing about 3 hours per day.


Re: /At what age do people usually get grade 8 abrsm in piano [Re: Gould] #1654135
04/04/11 06:56 AM
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I have a student who will be 14 or 15 when he does grade 8. He started at about age 8. Another who just did it at 15 he started late - 11.

Re: /At what age do people usually get grade 8 abrsm in piano [Re: Gould] #1654149
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Remember that you can't take Grade 6 and above in ABRSM practical until you've passed your Grade 5 Theory. That's often the stumbling block for those trying to rush through their grades.


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: /At what age do people usually get grade 8 abrsm in piano [Re: bennevis] #1654154
04/04/11 07:45 AM
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Yessss :P that is kinda holding me back now :P

Re: /At what age do people usually get grade 8 abrsm in piano [Re: Gould] #1654176
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For me personally it took 9 years, because I was kinda forced to play through them one grade/year, which was very, very tedious. Quite a few others I know did it in 5 or 6 years though, as a first instrument, so I think that's quite possible with practice. Sadly most of them just stopped after finishing Grade 8 though frown

And I definitely agree with the passing exams =/= making music bit, I hated playing for exams, but it was only after Grade 8 that I got to play the pieces I wanted instead of three pieces every year.

Re: /At what age do people usually get grade 8 abrsm in piano [Re: Gould] #1654188
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Well I'm hoping it's about 39 years old. Or thereabouts.


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Composers manufacture a product that is universally deemed superfluous—at least until their music enters public consciousness, at which point people begin to say that they could not live without it.
Alex Ross.
Re: /At what age do people usually get grade 8 abrsm in piano [Re: bennevis] #1654220
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Originally Posted by bennevis
Remember that you can't take Grade 6 and above in ABRSM practical until you've passed your Grade 5 Theory. That's often the stumbling block for those trying to rush through their grades.


Unless you've got an exemption because of some other music qualification. I doubt many children will, however.

Re: /At what age do people usually get grade 8 abrsm in piano [Re: theJourney] #1654222
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Originally Posted by theJourney
Originally Posted by kevinb
learning to make music and learning to pass music exams are very different things.


Truer words were never spoken.

There is nothing worse than a kid who can only sort of play his three " songs " for his upcoming exam, but isn't making music, developing a repertoire or doing anything but end-gaming for the exam pass.

On the other hand, I know of adult beginners who passed ABRSM Grade 8 after five years of lessons, practicing about 3 hours
per day.



The figure of 3,500 hours is often bandied about, from that study done at Keele some time back. That comes to about an hour a day for 10 years, or 3 hours a day for 3-4 years. I suspect that few amateurs will find time for 3 hours a day _every_ day.

Of course, there were _huge_ individual differences.

Many kids feel they need to pass these exams, because they need the paper qualification to go on to something else. So it's not completely unreasonable to try to give some kind of ballpark figure for how long it takes. But it seems a shame to put young people under this kind of pressure, or encourage them to do it to themselves.



Re: /At what age do people usually get grade 8 abrsm in piano [Re: Gould] #1654228
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Do you think my age is ok when I'm getting my grade 8? I kinda started doing grades at 11 and am doing my grade 8 at 14

Re: /At what age do people usually get grade 8 abrsm in piano [Re: Gould] #1654229
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I think ABRSM exams are great to build objective milestones and measurement moments into piano study. The requirement to actually know a good bit of theory is also great. They give experience in having kids (and adults!) really polishing pieces and performing, in learning technique through scales/arpeggios, etc. The choice of repertoire is also very smart in terms of progression and the demands of building a pyramid of technique.

The problem I see are teachers simply teaching to the exam and kids spending a year only learning three pieces by rote. What a waste!

ABRSM should be something that goes along with an integrated music/piano study including lots of other repertoire than three pieces a year. If you can't get ready for en exam in three months (with perhaps a month or two to let the pieces ripen in your subconscious before spending a couple of weeks in a pre-exam fitness routine) then the student is probably not ready for that level and needs to keep studying.

It is also a pity if people don't memorize & keep these pieces in their active repertoire. Most are short miniatures thatsound impressive and lend themselves well to being used to rattle something off when someone asks you in the vicinity of a piano " don't you play ? "

Re: /At what age do people usually get grade 8 abrsm in piano [Re: theJourney] #1654245
04/04/11 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by theJourney
I think ABRSM exams are great to build objective milestones and measurement moments into piano study. The requirement to actually know a good bit of theory is also great. They give experience in having kids (and adults!) really polishing pieces and performing, in learning technique through scales/arpeggios, etc. The choice of repertoire is also very smart in terms of progression and the demands of building a pyramid of technique.

The problem I see are teachers simply teaching to the exam and kids spending a year only learning three pieces by rote. What a waste!

ABRSM should be something that goes along with an integrated music/piano study including lots of other repertoire than three pieces a year. If you can't get ready for en exam in three months (with perhaps a month or two to let the pieces ripen in your subconscious before spending a couple of weeks in a pre-exam fitness routine) then the student is probably not ready for that level and needs to keep studying.
Agree completely. I'd think it's very boring for those students whose teachers choose to have them work mostly on just three exam pieces each year. OTOH the teachers are under some pressure to have their students pass the exams.

If it takes a student an entire year to learn just three pieces well enough to pass the exams, I'd agree that they should be working to pass a lower level exam.

Re: /At what age do people usually get grade 8 abrsm in piano [Re: Gould] #1654272
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Originally Posted by Vesivian
Do you think my age is ok when I'm getting my grade 8? I kinda started doing grades at 11 and am doing my grade 8 at 14


Of course, it's okay. Whatever level you're at is whatever level you're at no matter what your age. It is what it is.



"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $

Re: /At what age do people usually get grade 8 abrsm in piano [Re: pianoloverus] #1654320
04/04/11 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by theJourney
I think ABRSM exams are great to build objective milestones and measurement moments into piano study. The requirement to actually know a good bit of theory is also great. They give experience in having kids (and adults!) really polishing pieces and performing, in learning technique through scales/arpeggios, etc. The choice of repertoire is also very smart in terms of progression and the demands of building a pyramid of technique.

The problem I see are teachers simply teaching to the exam and kids spending a year only learning three pieces by rote. What a waste!

ABRSM should be something that goes along with an integrated music/piano study including lots of other repertoire than three pieces a year. If you can't get ready for en exam in three months (with perhaps a month or two to let the pieces ripen in your subconscious before spending a couple of weeks in a pre-exam fitness routine) then the student is probably not ready for that level and needs to keep studying.
Agree completely. I'd think it's very boring for those students whose teachers choose to have them work mostly on just three exam pieces each year. OTOH the teachers are under some pressure to have their students pass the exams.

If it takes a student an entire year to learn just three pieces well enough to pass the exams, I'd agree that they should be working to pass a lower level exam.

One year one exam - It was how I used to be taught by my ex-teachers. I felt like my early years of learning the piano was very unproductive. Later when I switched to my current teacher, turnover of my pieces increases quickly (I used 3 months to prepare for Trinity's LTCL exam for example). I still can't get very used to it - I need to work ridiculously hard to achieve an acceptable standard in 3 months. Whereas some of my friends don't need as much effort but can still achieve similar standard....


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The notes I handle no better than many pianists. But the pauses between the notes - ah, that is where the art resides! - Schnabel
Re: /At what age do people usually get grade 8 abrsm in piano [Re: Gould] #1654356
04/04/11 01:33 PM
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Most people never get to grade 1.


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Re: /At what age do people usually get grade 8 abrsm in piano [Re: BDB] #1654381
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Originally Posted by BDB
Most people never get to grade 1.


That'd be me smile I've been playing piano on and off for over 30 years and I've never taken an exam in my life. I don't intend to start now, either.

FWIW I think that one ABRSM grade per year, for those who want or need to take exams, is a reasonable rate. Of course you can pass exams more quickly if you focus specifically on the skills you need to take the exam. But if you take your time you get an opportunity to reflect on what you're doing, which is a vital part of learning.


Re: /At what age do people usually get grade 8 abrsm in piano [Re: Gould] #1654751
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One grade per year can be very boring. If you play lots of pieces for nine months after an exam and improve a lot, spending the next three months taking a step back is mind-numbing. I used to hate it.

Re: /At what age do people usually get grade 8 abrsm in piano [Re: anajess] #1654777
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Originally Posted by anajess
One grade per year can be very boring. If you play lots of pieces for nine months after an exam and improve a lot, spending the next three months taking a step back is mind-numbing. I used to hate it.


Not if you're spending the proper amount of time, developing your technique.

And if you already have, and are onto higher pieces because you actually should be, then you can always skip a level.


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I teach piano and violin.
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Re: /At what age do people usually get grade 8 abrsm in piano [Re: ll] #1654792
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Originally Posted by ll
Not if you're spending the proper amount of time, developing your technique.

And if you already have, and are onto higher pieces because you actually should be, then you can always skip a level.


Exactly. There is also no reason why you can't do two books in one year (or one book in two years for Grade 7 or Grade 8) and only take the exam of the level you are really ready for. There is no requirement to start at 1 or to take every exam or every exam sequentially. The only requirement is to have Grade 5 theory before you sit for Grade 6 Practical.

If people spent more time playing out of the Alfred Czerny-Germer book instead of trying to use the ABRSM miniatures as the exclusive path to technical facility, they could probably go a lot faster.

Last edited by theJourney; 04/05/11 02:10 AM.
Re: /At what age do people usually get grade 8 abrsm in piano [Re: anajess] #1654851
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Originally Posted by anajess
One grade per year can be very boring. If you play lots of pieces for nine months after an exam and improve a lot, spending the next three months taking a step back is mind-numbing. I used to hate it.


I don't really have much to add to what others have already said. Nobody's suggesting taking every exam, one after the other. If you've moved on, you've moved on.

But my suggestion was that students who strive to achieve technical mastery very rapidly (and this isn't just about piano, it's a problem in any kind of education) don't have the chance to study around the core subject, or reflect on what they're learning and why.

Naturally there are people for whom learning the piano (or whatever) comes so easily that they can make rapid progress and still have a broad exposure to different kinds of music, playing styles, etc. There just don't seem to be very many.

I'm aware that at the earlier grades people often don't find the music very interesting, and are keen to move on to more challenging stuff -- not just to pass exams but to have access to more interesting pieces. This seems to me to be understandable and even praiseworthy, but it's easy for it to become a habit.


Re: /At what age do people usually get grade 8 abrsm in piano [Re: Gould] #1654852
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Only living for tomorrow today can make for some empty yesterdays.

Re: /At what age do people usually get grade 8 abrsm in piano [Re: theJourney] #1654858
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Originally Posted by theJourney
Only living for tomorrow today can make for some empty yesterdays.


Make for?

Oh no! How about some making up for instead laugh

I don't think it's wrong to think, plan, and schedule for the future. But setting things in a retroactive bind or to a metaphorical contract definitely defeats the purpose. Living for tomorrow today gets me through today, and makes for a story about yesterday.

theJourney, I know I've seen your posts before, but I don't think I've ever remarked - and what a better place than this thread - how greatly fitting your username is!


II. As in, second best.
Only lowercase. So not even that.
I teach piano and violin.
BM, Violin & Percussion Performance 2009, Piano Pedagogy 2011.
Re: /At what age do people usually get grade 8 abrsm in piano [Re: Gould] #1654908
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There's really no defined age. You have to take loads into consideration - natural ability, practice time. And let's not forget the dreaded Grade 5 Theory, which often holds people back. I only managed it because I do A Level Music, but my Piano Teacher said she has tons of students who are great players, but just don't get the theory which is a shame really. I'd say around age 16 would be a 'typical' age for Grade 8, but that's just an estimate. My piano teacher says she's had students as young as 13 take there grade 8, and adults as old as 30. But like I said, there's a ton of factors which can often elongate the process of taking Grade 8.


Currently working on...
Chopin - Fantasie Impromptu in C sharp minor Op.66
Mozart - Piano Sonata in E flat K.282
Liszt - Romance in E minor "O pourquoi donc" S.196
Re: /At what age do people usually get grade 8 abrsm in piano [Re: Samuel1993] #1654986
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Just curious: Could someone give me a sampling of what repertoire would be representative of Grade 8?

Re: /At what age do people usually get grade 8 abrsm in piano [Re: cardguy] #1654989
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Originally Posted by cardguy
Just curious: Could someone give me a sampling of what repertoire would be representative of Grade 8?


ABRSM Grade 8 Examination

Regards,


BruceD
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