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Beethoven's Fourth concerto #1652938
04/02/11 04:32 AM
04/02/11 04:32 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,886
New York
Andromaque Offline OP
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Andromaque  Offline OP
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New York
My favorite of the five.. Instant rhapsody as soon as the first chords sink in.
Rummaging through my library, I can't seem to find a recording by Richter. Can't find it online either. Did he even record it??

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Re: Beethoven's Fourth concerto [Re: Andromaque] #1652967
04/02/11 06:44 AM
04/02/11 06:44 AM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,063
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wr Offline
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No, he didn't. According to the list of things he played in the Monsaingeon book, he only played the 1st and 3rd. And at one point in the book he mentions 4th (and the 5th) as just too overexposed.


Re: Beethoven's Fourth concerto [Re: Andromaque] #1653044
04/02/11 10:30 AM
04/02/11 10:30 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,886
New York
Andromaque Offline OP
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Andromaque  Offline OP
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Thanks for looking it up. The book is on my shelves but I was too lazy I guess..
It is a pity though. My impression nowadays is that the first and the fifth are more commonly performed, but that is just a guess.

Re: Beethoven's Fourth concerto [Re: Andromaque] #1653053
04/02/11 10:50 AM
04/02/11 10:50 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 276
McFarland, WI 53558
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Bachsky Offline
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Within the last few months both the Milwaukee Symphony and the Madison Symphony programmed the 5th. The Wisconsin Chamber Orchestra is doing the 4th soon.


1904 Henry F. Miller Concert Grand * 2002 Estonia 190 Satin Bubinga * 2008 Schulze-Pohlman vertical 125 polished cherrywood peacock design * 2008 Schoenhut minature grand (49 keys) * 2008 Roland Digital Harpsichord, 2010 Roland FP-4 (88 key slab).
Re: Beethoven's Fourth concerto [Re: Andromaque] #1653887
04/03/11 06:05 PM
04/03/11 06:05 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,970
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dolce sfogato Offline
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the 4th is the best, and the most difficult, and the most 'naked' for the soloist, I can imagine Richter never played it, and regret it therefore very much!


Longtemps, je me suis couché de bonne heure, but not anymore!
Re: Beethoven's Fourth concerto [Re: Bachsky] #1653889
04/03/11 06:10 PM
04/03/11 06:10 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 22,457
New York
Mark_C Online content
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Originally Posted by Bachsky
Within the last few months both the Milwaukee Symphony and the Madison Symphony programmed the 5th. The Wisconsin Chamber Orchestra is doing the 4th soon.

Cool! I particularly enjoyed seeing that because I spent a few years in Milwaukee and saw their symphony a lot.

BTW: I spent many nice hours at UWM -- hanging out in the practice rooms, actually even practicing sometimes ha and going to master classes. They had an incredible piano faculty at the time, including James Tocco, Robert Silverman, Armand Basile, and Jeffrey Hollander, and many excellent piano students.

I love the 4th Concerto too, and I put it right up there with the Emperor as my favorites. To me it's hard to compare them or 'rank' them because....they're just so....."different."

Re: Beethoven's Fourth concerto [Re: Mark_C] #1654065
04/04/11 03:12 AM
04/04/11 03:12 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,392
Pacific Northwest, US.
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argerichfan Offline
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Originally Posted by Mark_C

I love the 4th Concerto too, and I put it right up there with the Emperor as my favorites. To me it's hard to compare them or 'rank' them because....they're just so....."different."

+1. In the same way I would not compare the Beethoven 5th and 6th symphonies.

Ever since I discovered Argerich as a young teen I've longed to hear her in Beethoven's 4th concerto, but alas this isn't going to happen. She evidently heard Arrau play it and was mesmerized by the perfection of his trills. This is the famous 'Arrau Problem' and we are all the poorer for it.


Jason
Re: Beethoven's Fourth concerto [Re: argerichfan] #1654075
04/04/11 03:56 AM
04/04/11 03:56 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,651
Here, as opposed to there
stores Offline
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Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted by argerichfan
This is the famous 'Arrau Problem' and we are all the poorer for it.


Famous? I must be out of the loop then, because I've not ever heard of it. I have, however, like Martha, heard Arrau, with the 4th.



"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $

Re: Beethoven's Fourth concerto [Re: stores] #1654326
04/04/11 01:44 PM
04/04/11 01:44 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,392
Pacific Northwest, US.
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argerichfan Offline
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Joined: Nov 2006
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Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted by stores

Famous? I must be out of the loop then, because I've not ever heard of it.

It's part of Argerich lore, the kind of stuff you learn about on the Argerich db. She is a superstitious lady, and has resolutely refused to perform the Beethoven 4th (but presumably she learned the notes at one time?) for fear of involking some phantom or curse of Arrau.

I really don't mean to sound flippant, obviously Argerich feels very deeply about this, but for the rest of us, the lack of a Beethoven 4th is such an unfairly missed opportunity.


Jason
Re: Beethoven's Fourth concerto [Re: argerichfan] #1654399
04/04/11 03:33 PM
04/04/11 03:33 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,651
Here, as opposed to there
stores Offline
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Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted by argerichfan
Originally Posted by stores

Famous? I must be out of the loop then, because I've not ever heard of it.

It's part of Argerich lore, the kind of stuff you learn about on the Argerich db. She is a superstitious lady, and has resolutely refused to perform the Beethoven 4th (but presumably she learned the notes at one time?) for fear of involking some phantom or curse of Arrau.

I really don't mean to sound flippant, obviously Argerich feels very deeply about this, but for the rest of us, the lack of a Beethoven 4th is such an unfairly missed opportunity.


I don't think you sound flippant. What's the Argerich db?



"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $

Re: Beethoven's Fourth concerto [Re: stores] #1654410
04/04/11 03:49 PM
04/04/11 03:49 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,392
Pacific Northwest, US.
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argerichfan Offline
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,392
Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted by stores
What's the Argerich db?


http://groups.yahoo.com/group/martha_argerich/

It's not a 'forum' in the sense of PW -and I very seldom post there- but it's a great resource for finding out about upcoming concerts, cancellations, live recordings, various miscellany. Several contributors have an absolutely awesome knowledge of the woman, and have seen her live many, many more times than I have.



Jason
Re: Beethoven's Fourth concerto [Re: Andromaque] #1654721
04/04/11 11:32 PM
04/04/11 11:32 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,990
Haverhill, Massachusetts
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John Citron Offline
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Haverhill, Massachusetts
The Fourth and Fifth are both sublime! I heard the Fourth again tonight on the way home from work. I sat in my driveway as the finale closed the final chords. I get the goose bumps when I think about this concerto.

I agree this is a very difficult work to play. I've attempted many gut wrenching episodes while sight reading through the piano part. The triplet 16ths and the third-trills are what do the performer in. If he/she can't get them right, don't bother! They really are exposed.

One of these days, while at the Frederick Collection www.frederickcollection.org I plan on giving this concerto a try at least to hear the piano part as it might have sounded on a piano from Beethoven's time.

John


Current works in progress:

Beethoven Sonata Op. 10 No. 2 in F, Haydn Sonata Hoboken XVI:41, Bach French Suite No. 5 in G BWV 816

Current instruments: Schimmel-Vogel 177T grand, Roland LX-17 digital, and John Lyon unfretted Saxon clavichord.
Re: Beethoven's Fourth concerto [Re: Andromaque] #1654783
04/05/11 02:47 AM
04/05/11 02:47 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 89
Belgium
O
octurn Offline
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Belgium
Originally Posted by Andromaque
Thanks for looking it up. The book is on my shelves but I was too lazy I guess..
It is a pity though. My impression nowadays is that the first and the fifth are more commonly performed, but that is just a guess.


I always thought the 3rd and 5th are the most commonly performed, followed by the 4th.

The 1st and 2nd aren't actually in my active memory, but that might be just me...


For the pleasure of playing: Kemble Conservatoire
For practicing and gigging:Yamaha CP5

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