Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner Anyone who is anyone pedals in Bach?

I am currently working on Bach's French Suite # 5 in g major. I played one of the movements for my teacher in my lesson, and she said I needed to add pedal. I thought it sounded fine as it was, so I asked why. Her answer was that all professionals use the pedal in Bach, and if I don't use the pedal I will sound like a beginner. She then went on to make me put in the pedal without giving me any guidelines first, which was frustrating, but that doesn't really have to do with the question. The questions is: is it really true that ALL professionals pedal in Bach? I thought there was a school that didn't believe in it.

There was a discussion here some time ago...

It's not true that all professionals use pedal in Bach, although most do.

And indeed there are different schools of thought -- not just "yes" or "no," but also 'how much,' and 'exactly how.'

It's fine to do it any of these ways, as long as you do it well.

What's "well"? That's the really hard part.

But I bet it's never been asked before quite this way.

Oh, sorry. I hate to bring up stuff that has been beaten to death already.
BTW, when I clicked the link, it just brought me back to this topic.




That is the hard part. For the longest time I was really confused because I couldn't figure out where, why, how to use the pedal. Finally she said pedal on certain notes that need more sound. That helped a little, but it's hard to decide what notes need "more sound" too.

Also, another way to put it: is it legitimate to refrain from pedaling? Will people take me seriously if I don't? And wouldn't it be better to leave it out than to put it in cluelessly?

Sorry! I copied and pasted the url of the wrong window (I had both tabs open)...
This is the correct link...

No problem at all, I bring up old topics too sometimes... I just thought maybe there are some useful ideas... And some new ideas may be added to this thread too...

As to me, yes, I use the pedal, but your teacher's assertion that ALL professionals use it is probably exaggerated I think.

i'm working on a couple movements from the same piece -- i do use the pedal, but i use it sparingly -- for the most part, finger legato SHOULD get you through.

Yes, for this particular movement (Allemande) the legato/articulation is exactly how I want it without pedal, which is why I was confused at first that my teacher wanted me to add pedal. I mean what else is the pedal for if not connecting the notes, right?...well actually wrong.

There are people who feel the piano has capabilities far beyond the instruments Bach ever used, and he would be delighted to see those capabilities exploited. I can respect that premise, even as I disagree with it. Personally, I feel that Bach was a linear thinker. He didn't subscribe to the notions of harmony that Rameau set down in his treatise, and instead continued to think in a primarily horizontal fashion, with the "vertical" harmonies being a little more secondary. I do use the pedal in Bach, but always in such a way that the horizontal movement is clear.

Why NOT use pedal in Bach? Otherwise, why bother to play his music on a modern piano? I don't think Bach would have particularly minded: I cannot think of any other composer whose music adapts so beautifully to any medium. His music is indestructible. In the opening of the C minor Partita I couldn't imagine not using pedal, I certainly did when I studied it in secondary school.

Move over to the organ music, and the 'Baroque Boys' (as Virgil Fox sneered), would forbid Bach's music played on anything other than a Marcussen or that dreadful instrument Michael Chapius used in his recordings. One of the most moving performances I ever heard of the Fantasy & Fugue in G minor was on the massive Willis at Liverpool Anglican.

Umm no, all professionals do NOT use the pedal with Bach. It's late and I'm battling a cold...can't sleep...not even going to start with this subject, but there isn't a NEED for pedal with Bach and any teacher that claims you'll sound like a beginner shouldn't be teaching.

Do get to bed stores. Things are much more pleasant when you're not around.

Hey Stores -- I played (more or less) a whole recital with a cold. You're saying you can't even post?

Frankly I would prefer if he didn't.

argerichfan, why bait the man?

As for the OP, I find it strange that the teacher only gives you this "explanation" which is a silly one IMO. You shouldn't use the pedal just because some professionals do. You should use the pedal if you think it serves a purpose. You have no idea what that purpose might be right now thanks to your teacher's "explanation". You should probably demand a better explanation and if the teacher does not give you a satisfactory response, it might be time for you to look for another teacher.

Has your teacher discussed with you the various different functions a pedal can be used for? So for example do you know the pedal is used for purposes of tone color and not necessarily always for sustain? Heard of accent pedals? There are places in a Bach prelude that I play where I use the pedal on accents (but short) just to give the accented note a different color from the rest of the notes. So there are legitimate ways to use the pedal but you must know what the purpose is and what it is that you want to achieve with the sound before you begin to use the pedal. Throw your teacher's explanation out of the window if you are unable to see why the pedal must be used or if the teacher is unable to provide a better explanation. You using the pedal without having an idea about the purpose would do more harm than you not using the pedal where it might have added to the sound.

agreed. excapt for a couple tiny places, pedaling in the allemande sounds really muddy and blurry.

Just a general point, not aimed particularly at the OP......

I think we should be careful to assume too much about exactly what a teacher said, based on what is said in a post. I mean look: In real life, when we hear something said, and then we hear someone tell about it, how often do they get it exactly right? IMO, not that often. Something usually gets lost in the repetition. So why should it be any different with posts? And it's no slam on the poster; IMO it's normal, just something that happens.

And we even make mistakes like that with what people say in posts. When we talk about what someone said, we might get it a little wrong, sometimes even way wrong -- even though what they said was right there on the page.

So....I'm not assuming anything about what the teacher said. That's why I answered just in terms of what the OP asked, without saying anything about the teacher.

Disagree. You should use the pedal whenever you want a passage to sound louder (more robust). In Bach's time you'd sometimes have flaps that opened on a harpsichord to give the same effect.

You sure you want to put it that way?

For what it's worth, not too many people would agree with it.