Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Hello all...KAWAI RX-1 purchase...please help

I have been shopping for a baby grand piano for several months now, decided that the biggest i could reasonably fit was about 5'5 to 5'7".
Tried many brands at almost every major dealer in town and loved the Kawai GE-30 action, though was not crazy about its tone (this was a brand new out of the box piano). I played a slightly older GE-30 at another non-authorized dealer and actually was very happy with the tone, but dealer refused to budge on the price for a 5 year old serial number "brand new" piano....but the experience gave me hope that the tone could be worked with....After a lot of research, Ive decided that the RX-1 is a superior piano to the GE-30, but the local Kawai dealer will not stock it because of price/inability to sell...(SMP ~25,900 + tax). After some discussion, they were willing order to order one for me for about ~20K+tax and second floor delivery which put me at a final price of $21.9K. However they want me to pay for it up front for them to order it.OF note, Kawai list prices are increasing >3K inabout 1 week.

My question is 1) is this is a good price, it seems to me to be and 2)does anyone have enough experience with an RX-1 to reassure me that I can buy this unseen. Again I love teh Kawai action, and have been happy with th GE-30 tone, and wouldnt mind having a tech tinker with it a little to optimize it. Thanks

That's higher than I was quoted for an RX-2 last Fall, and I would take an RX-2 over the RX-1 every day of the week (although, frankly, I wasn't thrilled with either of them, although I like the RX-3 and above quite a bit). But prices vary wildly by region and season. I don't know if that's considered a great price now, but it is less than SMP listed in the new Piano Buyer; so it's probably good enough.

I'd recommend a day trip to a dealer who has one to play before committing, though. I also don't know that I'd want to do business with a dealer who wanted everything upfront. That strikes me a bit odd.

Good luck,
Mike

Thank you for the advice...I will be visiting my folks in CA, and will see if I can find a dealer with one in stock, the reason these guys want me to pay for it, or at least commit to pay for it, is because they do not stock or want to stock it...they aren't confident they would be able to sell it given its price.

Don't commit to a piano you haven't seen or tried...

Playing one during your visit sounds like a good plan, as long as you're going soon. I recall seeing a note recently that Kawai prices were going up effective April 1, but I don't recall who said that (it was here on PW).

Also, to clarify my post above, I think the entire RX line are good pianos. They are well-made and have consistent, excellent touch. However, I was disappointed in their sound for the models below 6 feet. But in terms of quality, they are quality instruments.

That price seems really high. What part of California will you be visiting?

And you should definitely play it before you buy it. I tried an RX-1 last year and really liked it.

Hi Dunce,

I can assure you that if you order the piano nothing will be wrong with it. Kawai has a very tight quality control in terms of the performance Kawai actions are extremely predictable they are very consistent. In regard to the tonal quality if you like Kawai's tone it is also consistent and will be a matter of little prepping for minor adjustments.

Do not buy the piano outside your estate. Try negotiating the price with your local dealer and also have them offer you service such as in-home prepping and future tunings at discounted rate.
In the case of a shipping problems such as nicks, scratch or damage is very difficult for a dealer outside your area to replace the piano or fix it.
The quote you got is reasonable, it is true that Kawai is having a price increase now.

Best regards,

I was the one who posted that Kawai's prices we increasing as of 4/1/2011.

Having purchased a piano outside my state and shipped it halfway across the country I don't understand why you would advise this. My piano was shipped via Keyboard Carriage and arrived just fine and then was delivered to me by local movers. The potential savings from buying a piano from a more competitive market such as parts of California can be very significant. I encourage the OP to shop wherever they wish and if they find something they like from a trustworthy dealer to go ahead and buy it.

Hello Dunce,

If you like the Kawai RX-1, when you visit California I suggest that you try out the RX Blak version of it. The RX Blak series is meant to replace the RX series. I was able to play side-by-side an RX-2 and an RX-2 Blak and personally found a qualitative difference. I ended up purchasing the Blak version last week and it will be delivered tomorrow (I can't wait for it! :-)). As a possible reference point for you, I was offered $19.5k for the RX-2 Blak. With my digital piano trade-in and taxes, I ended up paying $18.5k. I spoke about this on a different thread here: http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1642604/

Best of luck and I hope you find your piano soon!

lyricmudra

Thank you to all who responded. I have shopped around in California and have found 2 dealers here who will sell me a brand new RX-1 for significantly cheaper than anyone in Houston, Im talking thousands cheaper. I will have the piano shipped by Keyboard carriage to a local mover who will take it from there. The shipping actually costs less than sales tax, which I dont pay since it is an out of state purchase .

I can not believe how corrupt the piano industry is in general, how large a margin they generally operate with, and how untruthful they are regarding all of the above.

I don't know about corrupt, Dunce. Yes, margins are high. They have to be. How many pianos do you suppose are sold as compared to apples, for instance. As a former retailer (not pianos) I realize that the lower the potential volume of an item, the higher markup is needed in order to cover the very significant costs involved in maintaining a store. How do you think the margin on pianos compares to furniture? Jewelry? Watches? I can assure you that the margin on all these is at least as high (oftentimes quite a bit higher) than the margin on pianos.

I certainly do not blame you for shopping around. I did. A consumer is not doing his job if he doesn't look for the best deal before purchasing. There is some risk in having the instrument shipped across the country, but you know that. At some amount of savings, one finds that the risk is acceptable in light of the monetary savings. That point differs for everyone as we all have a different "risk meter." Some will invest in risky stocks, for example while some will only put their cash into CDs.

Keep in mind that if the state of Texas becomes aware of your transaction, you will be required to pay "use tax" equal to the sales tax you would have paid had you purchased within the state. According to the law you are required to report the transaction and pay the tax. Almost no one does, of course, and very few are "caught," so to speak, and sent a notice by the state. I do want you to know that it could happen, though. I wish you wouldn't paint an entire industry with the brush of "corrupt" - particularly in view of your own "corruption" in not paying the use tax you are required to pay by law. I, of course, am being silly in calling you corrupt for not paying the tax. I have bought things from out of state as well and I've never paid use tax on those items. I doubt all of them together, though, come anywhere close to the price of your piano.

Many here have lamented about the business model, but price differences do vary by region most of the due to totally reasonable legitimate reasons. For example, all Canadian prices are seemingly outrageous compared to the USA, but that doesn't mean Canadian dealers are "bad".

Oh, congratulations! Fine piano.

Corrupt: I believe it’s not the appropriate term to describe the piano industry. In fact many people in the piano industry found offensive your statement made at this public media.
The evidence is that you were able to purchase the piano at a lower price proving that the piano industry it is not corrupted. A corrupted industry will have collusions and price fixing to avoid cases such as yours and insure larger margins.
The fact that one dealer charge more for the piano than other it is not *corruption* it is call free enterprising which you have benefited from.

Your local dealer did not try to take advantage of you; they were conducting business in a normal fashion. What happened is that some other dealer took advantage of the work they've done and the time they invested in you by simply just low balling the price.

As far as I know any item that comes into the estate of Texas is subject to be taxed by the Texas Tax board of Equalization; if this is accurate,I guess not paying such a tax can be described as corruption or cheating.

FYI. Due to the nature of the piano business, in statistics the piano industry commands a much lower profit margin than many other items purchased in regular basis by families in the USA. Items such as computers, smart phones, flat screens, mattresses to name a few; in other words the production net cost of a piano is much higher than most of these products and quite disproportioned in terms of the ratio of cost versus profit margin.

I truly find completely out of line and disrespectful for you to portray our business as some sort of scam.

Dunce - Gosh, I sure hope before you made a commitment in California, you at least called your dealer back home and gave him the opportunity to see if he could work with you. It sounded like from your original post he was trying to.

Kurtmen - +1

Why should the buyer have to call? The dealer "back home" should have given him his best deal right from the start.

He should call the dealer back-home because that's the smartest thing to do. The local dealer can match the price, save the shipping cost from another estate and provide him service and peace of mind in case that something goes wrong,a local dealer can also provide prompt service.
Maybe less important reasons are; the buyer can also contribute to his local economy and perhaps show some respect for the dealer who introduced him to the given brand.

Axtremus: wouldn’t you think these are good reasons?

Please remember that (in my opinion) there is a big factor to consider:

The first point of contact does not even stock the model in question. The buyer located dealers that had the model in stock and... Presto!

There have been recent price increases which may have significantly affected the 'ordering price' vs. the 'old price', among other things.

Thank you,

Nick

Hi Dunce,

Glad you found a Kawai RX1 at a good price. Please post pictures when you get it delivered...

However, I think saying that the piano industry in general is corrupt is a little over the top. There are many fine, and honest piano industry folks who are members of this forum.

Rick

Hey Dennis, hope youre not from said dealer.

As far as negotiating, I liked my dealer a lot and trusted him and took him for his word that his price was his "final" price as he said, to stay in business, etc. But he gave me a deadline that, unfornutately, had already passed.

If I had gone back and renegotiated, and the price came down, then that means the statement above was a lie, in which case, I would have, by principle, taken my business elsewhere, even if it had cost me more.

As far as a use tax, I will probably file the piano, again by principle, but its odd that a Texan would talk to me about taxes, when in this state, everyone is categorically opposed to anything of the like.:)