Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards Kawai MP-10 Statement

I LOVE this brand! They have fixed the issues (some of those reported by myself for the CN33 for ex), they care bout customers.

My next stage piano will be from Kawai.

I am upset not being patient enough so I bought the Yamaha CP33 about half a year ago

Kawai - on the top of my shopping list.

Really first class of Kawai to come on here like this. A big thumbs up to Kawai and to you Don. Thank you.


I understand where dewster is coming from. At the same time, having owned 2 SuperNATURAL stage pianos (RD-700GXF/NX) and played the GXF live, there is a sterility and overall weakness in all of Rolands pianos live. They do sound clinical and cheap, whether SN or non-SN in a live setting. Having gotten used to the NP88's stretched, looped and highly imperfect piano samples, I couldn't go back to the SN piano voices. I would, however, take the PHA II/III Ivory Feel action over the NP88's in a heart beat!

Thanks Jeff Clef.
I will try them even though it is over 2 hours drive from me.
We have a Kawai dealer in my area but he doesn't want to carry the MP's for the reason KawaiDon mentioned above (not enough margin and too much online competition).
A good music store in San Rafael (Bananas at large) used to carry them a few years ago but for some reason doesn't anymore , and Guitar center doesn't have them either.
If this type of outfit would have the stage pianos it would be even better because we could compare them side by side with the other big brands.

"I will try them even though it is over 2 hours drive from me..."

I'd call first, in that case. (408) 248-9200; talk to Darlene or Boskurt. There's a big Guitar Center a block or two away from Carnes, if you want to comparison shop.

With the MP10 I see most people talk about how it feels. By the reviews on other post , it seems to be high quality. But compared to the MP6 how is it? It seem the MP6 has more internal sounds also it seem you can not upgrade the sound bank on these. Only record and play wav file thru USB ? Is the RM3 that much better compared to the MP6?

My personal opinion: YES!

the action alone is the reason why im buying mp10. sounds can be substituted by pc.

Some of my thoughts on the marketing issues that Kawai seems to have.

Having worked in retail and wholesale of musical instruments 25 years ago, I do understand the issue with Kawai dealers not wanting to carry the MP10.

I am of the thought that the "stage piano" really doesn't fit well in the mix of a Kawai acoutic/home piano line-up. The store then would need to sell monitor speakers or some sort of sound system as these pianos do not have any built in speakers. Complete full line music stores have went the wya of the dinosaur.

When someone is usually looking for a portable piano, they go to places like Sam Ash, Guitar Center, etc. Not a traditional piano store that has acoustic pianos and digitals in home cases. The exception probably would be a church.

Also, the traditional piano store has a protected territory with not any competition unless someone is willing to drive to another state or city. Their starting price is just about anywhere they want to put on the instrument. The consumer doesn't really have a way of knowing the list price or the street price like consumers know in the portable keyboareds. The dealers are always having "fake sales" that these pianos were used by universities, etc. That is just a come on so they can make their product look like a bargain at this particular time and the consumer needs to buy right away to secure that price.

Why does Sam Ash and Guitar Center not carry the Kawai products? I have trouble believing it is because of on-line stores. They are use to dealing with that issue all the time. If not, why would they carry Yamaha, Roland, Korg, etc.
products.

In my experience, Guitar Center & Sam Ash match prices of online stores and when pressed even the local sales tax.

There has to be another reason why Guitar Center and Sam Ash are not carrying Kawai products.

If I had to guess, I would think that it is because of low volumn, these stores only like to stock the best selling models. Or Kawai may be not offering these dealers as good as terms and incentives as Roland and Yamaha?

There are lots of products that these stores do not carry (expecially arranger keyboards). With limited floor space, sales folk who barely know how to turn the instrument on, and so many instruments out there that it is not cost effective to have them all on the floor. Kawai's name is not as well know to professional musicians that play in a rock band.

The solution probably would be for Kawai to stop selling their MP10 to Internet stores. Pressure or incent their acoustic dealers to carry the MP10. It probably wouldn't take much arm twisting if Kawai put the piano on the dealer's floor at no charge. Kawai needs to come out with a portable speaker system designed for the MP10.

Kawai needs to put their foot down and tell the dealers if they want to have the Kawai franchise, then they have to carry their complete line. There are probably smaller/growing keyboard stores in the area who would just about do anything to get a Kawai franchinse. Selling no-name pianos is very difficult. Here in Atlanta, the Yamaha dealer of many years has just lost the franchise and now a 20 store chain hs it. That yamaha dealer had a pretty impressive store, but he must not have done something right.

Of couse, we would have to pay more for the piano's than we currently do, but we would have access to the pianos and sales people who know a lot more about the instruments and service (wooden keys require service) I know as my MP8 has 2 wooden keys that are sticking right now.

I really respect Kawai stand on their quality, but their marketing leave a lot to be desired. They need to figure out who their market is. Look at the people who sing Kawai praises on this site. What kind of music do they play. I traveled all the way to Los Angeles from Atlanta in December to try out the MP10 and Roland's FP7-f. side by side. In 2 hours of playing, I wasn't able to decide a winner. I figured it would be cut and dry. Neither one is perfect, neither one is a bad.

Thanks for your thoughtful analysis, pianobear. I think one other consideration is that no one in their right mind buys a real piano over the internet, sight unseen, because every AP is different, and it is how it sounds and plays that concerns us. Not so DPs, that should be of uniform quality (or lack thereof). So we are quite happy to audition a DP for hours at a local store, and then buy it online (I've done it). Problem is, a small local store has a much higher overhead than the online traders, and has to charge more to stay in business. Bottom line: if we are unprepared to pay a small premium for the local bricks and mortar store to make an operating profit, then these stores will eventually die out. Then we end up spending that small premium, or more, flying across the country to audition the latest products at a noisy superstore.

"Is the action on the MP10 better than on the MP6" - I would also say 'yes' to that; it's the main selling point for the MP10 after all.

Point is; is it a small 1000 euro better than the RH in the MP6, considering that the AP sound is only a bit better than on the MP6, but not a world of difference.

For me; I was going back and forth for a long time, but comparing all pro's and con's between the two, I just couldn't justify the large sum extra (and getting 10kg extra as a bonus). And if you're not going to carry it around anyway, I would seriously suggest to check out the CA63 , or CA13 instead, if RM3 is the main reason for considering the MP10. I think a price difference between MP6 and MP10 of about € 550 would be more fair and would sell better. Let's say € 350 to € 400 extra for the wooden keybed and the rest for the added electronics. Just my thought...

On topic: the way they seem to have solved the 'problems' with the first batch is a good sign. At least Kawai communicates with the customers and takes notice of their complaints and wishes. Other brands may learn something of that...

J

I think it's not too much about the wooden keybed but about a different keyboard action with much longer keys.

The only board I've bought not from a mom and pop music store was the RD-700NX which I bought from Sweetwater, and mostly because they were the only ones at the time who I knew had RD-700NXs to ship. Needless to say, the NX went back. I bought my CP300/RD700GX(F)/RD300GX and NP88 all from mom and pop music stores. I have chosen to support, even at a premium at times, the smaller full-service mom and pops as opposed to the non-service box house like GC and Sam Ash. Oddly enough, the last 3 keyboards I've bought were discounted (though TN does have a 9.25% sales tax) so I probably paid about parity what I'd pay online, with the added benefit of supporting a place who can service and support me.

to each his own. you are going to pay one way or another. I dont think mom and pop are going to work on your DP for free.

I purchased a pearl river in 2003 from a local dealer. I havent used them since the free tuning.

That was exactly my thought when I bought it. I expected to use it as a MIDI controller with a PC supplying the sound. Out of the box, I wasn't blown away by the sound. But now that I've had time to tweak it a little, the sound is one of the things I'm most impressed with. I use the MP10 as my primary piano sound with it recorded to a thumb drive, and importing the wav file into my DAW. I've lost almost all interest in the software pianos I was looking at getting next.

Half-pedaling and re-pedaling are quite well done. Sympathetic resonance is very well implemented. Highs are delicate and clear. Lows are thunderous and rich. I found it needed a few dB boost around 350-500 Hz (which is no big deal with the sweepable mid).

It's also very easy to use and intuitive. I hardly cracked open the manual (sorry James).

And the action is fantastic.

Back on topic, I did get one of the defective units. But, Kawai's customer service was exceptional. Open and honest, and very much a "we're going to make it right" attitude. And thanks KawaiDon for being so forthcoming with information.

Aldo

The store I flew out to try out the MP10 and FP&F was Pierre's in Los Angeles. I (and Pierre) was the only one in the store. Ideal situation to compare instruements. If I decide to buy one of these instruments, I will order it from him. I feel confident that I will not be overpaying for the instrument at his store. He knows his products and after our dicussion, I know he will make me a more than fare deal. The flight across contry is not so bad if you plan a visit to DisneyLand too. I always visit local music stores when I take a vacation. Mixing pleasure with more pleasure.

On repair by Mom & Pop music stores. They may not fix it free forever, but they have a repair staff that knows what they are doing, especially when it comes to these complicated actions that are being put in these high end digital pianos. My experience with other companies that have fixed my digital instruments in the past have not been positive. Of course, the tunings were not free, but the repair work was,

Steinway was still doing free waranty work on my instrument up to 10 years.

On my Kawai MP8 with the 2 wooden sticky keys, I don't know who to trust. Trust an electronic's guy who is not skilled in regulation of actions, or trust a piano tuner to take the digital piano apart. That both are scary to me.

Kawai support have said they will help me take the piano apart myself over the phone or send me instructions on how to do it. Then when it is in pieces, I am going to call the piano tuner to regulate. I think that is my safest bet. Luckily my faher was a TV repairman so I feel some confidence in tearing into electronic things.

Another reason I haven't decided on another instrument is that I still love my MP8. I know the action is quicker and the black notes play evener with the white keys, but I'm not for sure my MP8 isn't more responsive in eveness of loud and soft for the type of music I like to play. Also, I need to listen to the piano/string pad combination. It is fabulous in my opion on the MP8. I need more time on the MP10 as I not for sure the string pad is the same.

I guess I need to take a vacation and see where Liberace is buried and go to Pierr's again.

.

Well, I've decided I'll pay more to support smaller, better service mom and pops. It's a choice I made because waling into GC is like walking into Wal-Mart, which I also don't go into. We can't hardly complain about no service and nowhere to test instruments out if all we're after is a cheaper price. Don brings up a good point, and that's not the first time I've heard that the online retailers are killing the mom and pops. I tried to demo an RG-1F and when I talked to Roland, the dealer they referred me to had none and couldn't afford to keep them because of competition from the online retailers. Not every mom and pop knows what they're doing, and won't always give you the best service, but try getting any meaningful service and advice from Guitar Center and Sam Ash, or many of the big box houses. To my surprise, Sweetwater actually has a pretty good staff.

Well said.

James
x

OT. James, are you in the UK or still in Japan? How are things for Kawai and everyone you know in Japan?

and I dont shop there either. Ya if mom and pop were so good we wouldnt even be online talking in a forum. We would have all the info from mom and pop already lol.

I understand what your saying but this is the way the world is turning. Everything online. For the most part this is a good thing really. Keeps competition going stronger, I can easily find products that are great and have reviews from people like me to help me along. Ya everything has its drawbacks like not having a local person to rely on. Guess to each his own.