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Joined: Apr 2006
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Now that's something everyone can sink their teeth into! laugh

Thanks for the clarification.


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I think it is an excellent idea, ando, for every teacher to understand what their rights are legally with regards to policies and collections of unpaid lessons and fees. MTNA provides this information, as well as collection letters and advice to its members. If you are a member, I highly recommend that a teacher look into this when writing or re-writing their policies, as well as prior to having to collect on a debt. That way should a dispute ever go to court, you are well prepared.


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My policy is a Handshake smile

To date, it has not let me down.
I charge per lesson, and parents who cancel last minute, generally offer to pay for the missed lesson.
I used to feel bad about accepting payment for work I had not done, but, as refusal often offends, I now accept with good grace.

For those who don't offer, I hold no grudge, as it gives me free time to work on other income producing activities.

I have the luxury of a (small) waiting list, so can easily fill a vacated slot, should the need arise.
As I travel to students' homes, most are very flexible when it comes to bringing their lesson forward, should I have a last minute cancellation.

Just a couple of weeks ago, the parent of one student, said, "You have not increased your fee, for over a year, so we want to pay you $5/per lesson more!"
I am not knocking those who have restrictive policies, just saying what works for me.




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"My policy is a Handshake"

To ROB...I need to learn from you. Thank you for sharing.

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Just to point something out... there are plenty of other businesses who make you sign a contract and early termination fee.

Case in point - cell phone providers.

I don't like it, but I do like my cell phone and I want the service, so I follow their rules.

Personally, I don't charge an early termination fee, but I wouldn't have a problem if a teacher of mine chose to. What I do, is to ask for 2 weeks notice.

I'm generally very strict in my policies but leave room for changing my mind in person. For example, a couple of months ago I had a family quit because the Mom was having health issues. They tried to pay me for the 2 weeks notice and I refused to take it.

On the other hand, another student's mother recently gave me a check that was 1 week's worth of $$ short from what it was supposed to be. I politely handed it back and reminded them about the full amount. This same student is missing 2 out of 5 weeks this month because of personal reasons, but I do offer a make up lesson opportunity once every quarter.

I think most of us have a heart and under extreme circumstances would happily work with any families who were having difficulties. But if you're not strict on paper, people WILL start to run all over you.

Just my random, rambling thoughts. :-)



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Originally Posted by rocket88
Originally Posted by liszt85
Originally Posted by rocket88
Originally Posted by AZNpiano
Originally Posted by rocket88
I am not being sarcastic...its just a thought.
[Linked Image] Really?


Yes really...its called pro bono. I really was not being sarcastic.


Oh yea? The comment about the number of posts I've made here on PW is a dead giveaway. You must think you're really smart.


The # of posts was to illustrate that you have some spare time. Nothing more. I know you won't believe me, but that is what I meant...pro bono work, and you have the time.

Why are you so angry?


When one does have a lot of time and/or does not have a mean to have other fun due to various reasons, such as financial or physical constraints etc, hanging out in PW is an ideal place to have fun. Writing a personal blog is also fun too, for example writing about one's journey on learning piano etc.

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Originally Posted by RonaldSteinway
Originally Posted by rocket88
Originally Posted by liszt85
Originally Posted by rocket88
Originally Posted by AZNpiano
Originally Posted by rocket88
I am not being sarcastic...its just a thought.
[Linked Image] Really?


Yes really...its called pro bono. I really was not being sarcastic.


Oh yea? The comment about the number of posts I've made here on PW is a dead giveaway. You must think you're really smart.


The # of posts was to illustrate that you have some spare time. Nothing more. I know you won't believe me, but that is what I meant...pro bono work, and you have the time.

Why are you so angry?


When one does have a lot of time and/or does not have a mean to have other fun due to various reasons, such as financial or physical constraints etc, hanging out in PW is an ideal place to have fun. Writing a personal blog is also fun too, for example writing about one's journey on learning piano etc.


I agree, but like rocket88 noticed, this extra time often turns what should be occasional fun into anger (and frustration) when said time is too much and poster too frustrated for whatever reason.

You'd think a forum about piano and music would be friendly, but the Internet is so often used to vent, no matter what the topic. So it's best to ignore such posts/posters IMO, because they do neither you nor the poster any good bickering back and forth.

A lot of anger out there in the world these days, manifested all over the place in many different ways, and it's sad to see. But venting on the Internet is innocent compared to how others handle their frustrations (i.e crime, etc.).

How venting on the Internet takes away from other more traditional (and dangerous) venting outlets would make for an interesting undergraduate psychology course.

Now back to the topic at hand..

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RonaldSteinway and Alexb are two people who've had altercations with me via PM. Alexb just sent me one yesterday telling me that he was going to warn everybody on PW about me and how I was insincere and what not. RonaldSteinway even called me dumb and crazy via PM and seemingly he hasn't even received a warning from a mod though I reported him when he started calling me names via PM. He wouldn't be trying to pick up a fight again by posting ONE post in a huge thread targeting just me if the mods had done something at that time (I apologize if you already did warn him and he is doing in spite of your warning). The same goes for Alexb. These are troublemakers. I will not directly address them here. If one of the mods do happen to pass by, I'd like to ask you if this behavior is acceptable. Here is this long drawn out discussion with opinions coming from two valid sides and suddenly pops up two people who apparently have personal problems with one of the posters and chooses posts directed against him or made by him to make one (or two) solitary comment on, completely irrelevant to the topic.

I'm posting this here out in the open instead of just notifying them to the mods because I usually don't know if there was any follow up. So I'll leave it out here so that people can decide whether or not to take them seriously. Alexb acts as though he's a saint, advocating people to ignore angry posters. However, only hypocrites do what he does: Warn somebody over PM that they are going to "expose your insincerity to the world", and then make hateful posts in the public forum, doing exactly what he supposedly hates in what I'm doing!

I'm sorry that the other readers have to read this but I really didn't think a private notification to a mod was going to do anything to these guys. Sorry mods.. I know you are doing a great job, and that too unpaid work. So you probably don't get the time to take care of every little issue that every person has on this forum. So I chose not to bother you this time.

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Lest they decide to delete their posts:


Originally Posted by RonaldSteinway

When one does have a lot of time and/or does not have a mean to have other fun due to various reasons, such as financial or physical constraints etc, hanging out in PW is an ideal place to have fun. Writing a personal blog is also fun too, for example writing about one's journey on learning piano etc.





Originally Posted by alexb
Originally Posted by RonaldSteinway


When one does have a lot of time and/or does not have a mean to have other fun due to various reasons, such as financial or physical constraints etc, hanging out in PW is an ideal place to have fun. Writing a personal blog is also fun too, for example writing about one's journey on learning piano etc.


I agree, but like rocket88 noticed, this extra time often turns what should be occasional fun into anger (and frustration) when said time is too much and poster too frustrated for whatever reason.

You'd think a forum about piano and music would be friendly, but the Internet is so often used to vent, no matter what the topic. So it's best to ignore such posts/posters IMO, because they do neither you nor the poster any good bickering back and forth.

A lot of anger out there in the world these days, manifested all over the place in many different ways, and it's sad to see. But venting on the Internet is innocent compared to how others handle their frustrations (i.e crime, etc.).

How venting on the Internet takes away from other more traditional (and dangerous) venting outlets would make for an interesting undergraduate psychology course.

Now back to the topic at hand..

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Originally Posted by liszt85
RonaldSteinway and Alexb are two people who've had altercations with me via PM. Alexb just sent me one yesterday telling me that he was going to warn everybody on PW about me and how I was insincere and what not. RonaldSteinway even called me dumb and crazy via PM and seemingly he hasn't even received a warning from a mod though I reported him when he started calling me names via PM. He wouldn't be trying to pick up a fight again by posting ONE post in a huge thread targeting just me if the mods had done something at that time (I apologize if you already did warn him and he is doing in spite of your warning). The same goes for Alexb. These are troublemakers. I will not directly address them here. If one of the mods do happen to pass by, I'd like to ask you if this behavior is acceptable. Here is this long drawn out discussion with opinions coming from two valid sides and suddenly pops up two people who apparently have personal problems with one of the posters and chooses posts directed against him or made by him to make one (or two) solitary comment on, completely irrelevant to the topic.

I'm posting this here out in the open instead of just notifying them to the mods because I usually don't know if there was any follow up. So I'll leave it out here so that people can decide whether or not to take them seriously. Alexb acts as though he's a saint, advocating people to ignore angry posters. However, only hypocrites do what he does: Warn somebody over PM that they are going to "expose your insincerity to the world", and then make hateful posts in the public forum, doing exactly what he supposedly hates in what I'm doing!

I'm sorry that the other readers have to read this but I really didn't think a private notification to a mod was going to do anything to these guys. Sorry mods.. I know you are doing a great job, and that too unpaid work. So you probably don't get the time to take care of every little issue that every person has on this forum. So I chose not to bother you this time.


It does seem these posts are completely off topic and meant to point the finger that those posting on here as being unreasonable. The best way to deal with such things is to ignore them. Any other reaction gives them the power over you they so wish to have. At least, that has always been my experience.


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The problem when there is tunnel vision and obstinacy, with people becoming entrenched, is that real issues cannot come out. If two people lock horns, then anything anyone else writes will become part of that argument. When you see someone else's ideas in an extreme way then there is no room for intelligent discussion by ** anyone **. It's like a giant whirlpool: anything we want to say which even smells like one "side" or the other gets sucked into it. Very discouraging. frown

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I reported those posts and ended up getting a warning myself for not letting up in this discussion (with John). People reported my posts too (apparently not these last few, I'm talking about the main discussion itself). People don't like to hear opposing view points, that's fine. However, reporting it to the mods just because you disagree, is unhealthy behavior (if the only reason my posts were reported was because I wasn't letting up, then John's posts ought to have got reported too but I doubt that happened, for obvious reasons in this forum). I hope people understand that. I will not post here anymore.. I leave with the wish that new eager teachers coming in to this forum seeking advice, do not lose sight of all the right reasons they got into the business in the first place. I value this forum as I come here for pianistic advice myself and I don't want to lose that privilege just because folks here in the teacher's forum don't like listening to an opposing point of view. Have fun.

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