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#1635786 - 03/07/11 03:38 PM grand soft pedal repair  
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 86
jmw Offline
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jmw  Offline
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Girard, KS,
Recently discovered the soft pedal on our Bergmann grand at school is not working. We have two performances coming next Sunday, so I took a look- pedal itself functions; I adjusted the rod so it engages the lever, but it just doesn't shift the action over. Feels like maybe the lever is disconnected from the action? Am I on the right track or have I missed something underneath? Do I need to pull the action out to check inside? I looked all over Reblitz and couldn't find what I needed. I HAVE contacted our local technician, but I haven't heard back from him, and I'm afraid he's out of town and I'm going to have to get this going.
Thanks as always!
John


Music teacher and beginning Tuner
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#1635820 - 03/07/11 04:08 PM Re: grand soft pedal repair [Re: jmw]  
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Larry Buck Offline
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Larry Buck  Offline
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Lowell MA
I am not familiar with the particular brand "Bergmann"

The "soft pedal" or the Una Corda, is generally a very simple lever.

The key frame may be bound up on the key bed. I would loosen the key block screws a little and see if that helps.
Yes, I would remove the key board if I thought I needed to look inside. It is possible a foreign object is jamming things up.

I would relax, Sunday is a long way away in the "Soft Pedal not working" world.


"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."
Mark Twain

E. J. Buck & Sons
Lowell MA 01852
978 458 8688
www.ejbuckpiano.com
http://www.facebook.com/EJBuckPerformances
#1635890 - 03/07/11 05:32 PM Re: grand soft pedal repair [Re: Larry Buck]  
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jmw Offline
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jmw  Offline
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Girard, KS,
Thanks a lot Mr. Buck! I just know if I have to fix it, it'll take a lot longer than most!

If I remember right, Bergmann is made by a Chinese company that is somehow related to Young Chang. But it's been long enough now I may be all wet on that. We've had good luck with it so far. You may be onto something with the foreign body idea- the people that normally use it are not nearly as careful with it as I would be.
Thanks for taking the time to respond,
John


Music teacher and beginning Tuner
#1635907 - 03/07/11 05:59 PM Re: grand soft pedal repair [Re: jmw]  
Joined: Jun 2010
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Loren D Online embarrased
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Loren D  Online Embarrased
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PA
Bergmann is a Young Chang model. When you press the pedal down, do you feel any resistance at all? Just because the pedal rod adjustment is engaging the lever, it still may not be adjusted up enough for the other end of the lever to engage the action and shift it.


DiGiorgi Piano Service
http://www.digiorgipiano.com
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#1635921 - 03/07/11 06:11 PM Re: grand soft pedal repair [Re: jmw]  
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Les Koltvedt Offline
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Les Koltvedt  Offline
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Canton, MI
You could look down between the cheek blocks and the keyframe to see what the clearance is, it should be tight on the bass side at rest. If it's tight on the treble side, chances are something is between the keyframe and stop.

When you adjusted the rod to engage the lever, just how much did you have to adjust it? If you adjusted it alot, the above could be the problem. Be sure to tell the tech you adjusted the pedal rod, so he can reset it correctly.... or he might be slightly stumped


Les Koltvedt
LK Piano
Servicing the S. Eastern Michigan Area
PTG Associate
#1636252 - 03/08/11 01:45 AM Re: grand soft pedal repair [Re: jmw]  
Joined: Sep 2006
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Supply Offline
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Supply  Offline
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Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
When was the piano last tuned?

If you have performances, the piano probably needs to be tuned anyhow. A tech can sort it all out for you.

If there is ever a good time to tune a school piano (or ANY piano), it is before a performance.... trust me.....

#1636438 - 03/08/11 09:29 AM Re: grand soft pedal repair [Re: Les Koltvedt]  
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jmw Offline
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jmw  Offline
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Girard, KS,
@Les- yes I had to adjust it a lot- so I'll let him know, if I don't get it fixed first.

@Supply- it's been since August for sure, so it's definitely time!

Thanks to all- I really appreciate those who take the time to help out us newbies with (sometimes) knuckle-head questions!

John


Music teacher and beginning Tuner
#1637071 - 03/09/11 12:16 AM Re: grand soft pedal repair [Re: jmw]  
Joined: Dec 2005
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Cy Shuster, RPT Offline
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Cy Shuster, RPT  Offline
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Albuquerque, NM
Under the keyboard, you usually see a black cast-iron lever, parallel to the keybed, with one end projecting up through it. The pedal moves a rod that moves this lever, and this lever then moves the action.

Is this lever moving? If not, try making the vertical rod longer or shorter until it moves again. Normally, the keys are all the way to the left, and they move to the right when the una corda pedal is down (on 99% of grands).

Possibly the vertical rod is adjusted so that the action is stuck on one side or the other.

Did it begin just after the piano was moved? Occasionally the wrong leg bolt is inserted, and it comes up through the keybed and pins the action on one side or the other.

--Cy--


Cy Shuster, RPT
www.shusterpiano.com
Albuquerque, New Mexico
Director, PTG Norfolk 2016 Technical Institute
http://convention.ptg.org
#1637189 - 03/09/11 07:22 AM Re: grand soft pedal repair [Re: Cy Shuster, RPT]  
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,626
Loren D Online embarrased
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Loren D  Online Embarrased
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PA
Originally Posted by Cy Shuster, RPT


Did it begin just after the piano was moved? Occasionally the wrong leg bolt is inserted, and it comes up through the keybed and pins the action on one side or the other.

--Cy--


I HATE that, Cy! It happens every so often, and I just dealt with it a few months ago. Grand piano was moved and screws put in the wrong place, so couldn't slide the action out.


DiGiorgi Piano Service
http://www.digiorgipiano.com
#1637252 - 03/09/11 09:48 AM Re: grand soft pedal repair [Re: Cy Shuster, RPT]  
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jmw Offline
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Girard, KS,
This piano is in our district auditorium, which I don't access regularly, so I don't know when it started. But it hasn't been moved, so that's probably not it.

Yes the lever moves- in fact it's just sort of loose. It will move up towards the keybed and then just stop with no feeling of the inside moving. I'll probably go up and look at it again after school today. Haven't heard from my tech yet- I'm afraid he's out of town cry

Thanks again!
John


Music teacher and beginning Tuner
#1637272 - 03/09/11 10:08 AM Re: grand soft pedal repair [Re: jmw]  
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Les Koltvedt Offline
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Les Koltvedt  Offline
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Canton, MI
Kinda sounds like the keys were shifted and didn't return, for whatever reason.

just my $0.02


Les Koltvedt
LK Piano
Servicing the S. Eastern Michigan Area
PTG Associate
#1637305 - 03/09/11 10:38 AM Re: grand soft pedal repair [Re: Les Koltvedt]  
Joined: Oct 2004
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Larry Buck Offline
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Larry Buck  Offline
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Lowell MA
Aaahhh.

I am going to suggest that the key frame is stuck in the "ON" position and is not returning after the pedal is released.

I would remove the key blocks completely and see if that frees it.

Also, remove the action and check things in the key bed.

When re installing the key blocks, tighten the screws incrementally to see if at some point the key frame begins to bind.


"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."
Mark Twain

E. J. Buck & Sons
Lowell MA 01852
978 458 8688
www.ejbuckpiano.com
http://www.facebook.com/EJBuckPerformances
#1637309 - 03/09/11 10:44 AM Re: grand soft pedal repair [Re: Larry Buck]  
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jmw Offline
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jmw  Offline
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Girard, KS,
I'm thinking we're on the right track now! I'll let you all know how it goes...
John


Music teacher and beginning Tuner
#1637348 - 03/09/11 11:31 AM Re: grand soft pedal repair [Re: Larry Buck]  
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,263
Silverwood Pianos Offline
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Silverwood Pianos  Offline
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Vancouver B. C. Canada
Originally Posted by Larry Buck

Also, remove the action and check things in the key bed.


Specifically check the spring on the right side; may have pulled the screws out of the cabinet wall.
I just had a YC product where the spring was fractured right at the screw holes that hold the spring in place.


Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
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"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."
#1637587 - 03/09/11 04:26 PM Re: grand soft pedal repair [Re: Silverwood Pianos]  
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SM Boone Offline
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SM Boone  Offline
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VA USA
And while you have the action out put a little graphite on the keybed under the rub spots you may or may not see... feel under the action, there will be about 5 or 6 or so metal round things you feel about 1/3 way toward you from the back of the action as is faces you. Those keep the action from binding on the keybed. Many new pianos come without any lubricant under these points at all.....

#1637775 - 03/09/11 09:02 PM Re: grand soft pedal repair [Re: SM Boone]  
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Supply Offline
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Supply  Offline
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Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
Originally Posted by SM Boone
And while you have the action out put a little graphite on the keybed under the rub spots.....

No. Don't use graphite - it ends up all over the next tech's hands and clothes, and, in a private ownership situation, on the owner's carpet.

I don't think it is a good idea to tell people to use any lubrication anywhere - there is too much of a chance they will use the the wrong product in the wrong place, incorrectly....

Let the tech tune the piano (which is overdue for a tuning) and figure it out. thumb bah

#1637843 - 03/09/11 10:45 PM Re: grand soft pedal repair [Re: Supply]  
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SM Boone Offline
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SM Boone  Offline
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VA USA
well I own a solid block of graphite, ... that's what I use, but I think powder would work, ...

#1637881 - 03/09/11 11:40 PM Re: grand soft pedal repair [Re: jmw]  
Joined: Sep 2003
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Del Offline
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Del  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,523
Olympia, Washington
Originally Posted by SM Boone
well I own a solid block of graphite, ... that's what I use, but I think powder would work, ...

If "by work" you mean that the powder will more easily transfer to the hands and clothing of the next technician to come along, you're right. Neither is an appropriate lubricant for keybeds and/or keyframes. If you must use something (and you have no Teflon powder available) use a bit of talc. While it won’t do much good—but then, neither does the graphite—at least it won’t make a mess for the next tech to clean up.

(If I sound a little testy about this it is because I’ve followed up after altogether too many technicians who have slopped graphite all over the place instead of actually figuring out the real problem and solving it. These experiences give one the opportunity to make up all kinds of interesting new words.)

ddf

Last edited by Del; 03/09/11 11:41 PM.

Delwin D Fandrich
Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant
ddfandrich@gmail.com
(To contact me privately please use this e-mail address.)

Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon
#1637884 - 03/09/11 11:49 PM Re: grand soft pedal repair [Re: jmw]  
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accordeur Offline
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accordeur  Offline
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Qubec, Canada
I did not want to comment Mr Fandrich, but am happy that you did.

A "block" of graphite!!!

I still keep an old "Stanley" construction grade pencil, a "block" of graphite. It's only use now is to make paper rubbings of bass strings for rescaling!!

Last edited by accordeur; 03/09/11 11:59 PM.

Jean Poulin

Musician, Tuner and Technician

www.actionpiano.ca

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