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#163317 - 05/12/08 01:01 AM Kawai K8 v Yamaha YUS5  
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Kerryma Offline
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I need to buy a new upright piano for my studio. Does anyone have any views on either of these pianos. I found the Kawai responded well to fast trills etc. The Yamaha seemed to have more tone??? The pianos are in different showrooms so it is very hard to compare them. I would appreciate any comments.
Thank you


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#163318 - 05/12/08 01:51 AM Re: Kawai K8 v Yamaha YUS5  
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Genaa Offline
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When I was shopping for my piano I looked at quite a lot of Kawai and Yamaha instruments as they were about the best value for my price point it seemed.

I found the U5 and YUS5's I played had a 'louder' voice than the Kawai, which seemed somewhat darker, with a warmer, mellower bass and tenor tone. Whereas I have no problem in a reasonable sized room with my Kawai K6, I felt that the U5 and YUS5 were more suited to a small hall!

Personally I found the action on the Kawai to be more responsive and, bearing in mind I had not played for a good few years and had weaker fingers etc, the Kawai was easier to control the touch, play softly and particularly play in control when 'high up on the keys' such as playing chords with several black notes in. Both certainly seemed to have very well made actions however.

Overall I found the Kawai to have a more interesting sound, certainly not as bold and punchy as the Yamaha in the bass, but more rounded with a treble that was less bright and shrill sounding right at the top. I think both may have duplex scales but the Kawai produced a more singing treble to my ear.

I did not get the opportunity to play on a K8 as most dealers here in the UK prefer to stock the K6 and K6-AS (the one with Sostenuto). This is purely a stylistic decision from what I gathered as we 'stiff-assed brits' don't appear to like the styling of cabinets such as the K8 and U5. In terms of construction, action and those features which contribute to the tone of the piano, the K6 and K8 are practically identical however, particularly if you have a K6-AS which has the sostenuto pedal like the K8.

If you are looking at that kind of instrument I would also recommend looking at a Yamaha SU7, which are lovely, and also the now Bechstein-owned Zimmerman Z1. The Zimmerman is pretty well regarded over here, being about 80% of the quality of a Bechstein upright such as Concert 8, for about 50% of the price of same.

Depending on where your budget runs to I would also consider looking at Schimmel, Seiler and Sauter uprights. All seem to be extremely well regarded, with Sauter in particular now very much thought to be a Tier 1 piano (if you go in for the whole Fine rating thing!). All three are certainly I think the next cut up from the big manufacturers such as Yamaha and Kawai if you want something a little more boutique and hand-crafted.

Whatever you decide, enjoy your piano shopping and play as many different instruments as you can from as many different makers before deciding, you may start out with a pretty clear idea of what you will purchase but keep an open mind and who knows where it will lead you smile


Sauter Masterclass 130
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#163319 - 05/12/08 06:43 AM Re: Kawai K8 v Yamaha YUS5  
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Both the YUS5 and the K8 are excellent.

Of the 3 Yamaha Super U series, I found the YUS 3 to be a better value than the YU5, as both are the same pianos except for two things: grand-like music rack and the addition of the sostenuto pedal for the 5. IMO, those two features are not worth the extra $. Of course, if you want them, then it's a moot point. The YUS series are beautiful pianos, with a sound that you can actually sculpt(atypical of Yamaha uprights), and a smooth, even action typical of Yamahas.

The K8 is a part of Kawai's totally new, redesigned vertical models. I played the K3, K5, K6, and K8. Again, I found the K6 to be a better value than the K8 for similar reasons stated above. Both models sound beautiful.

If I were to choose between the YUS 5 and the K 8, I would choose the YUS 5. The YUS 5 seems to be a more sturdily built instrument. Further, its sound seems to be more complex(I could coax more colours from it). Finally, I found the action on the Kawai K series, including the K8, to be 'strange'. Although its action felt excellent and even throughout, typical of Kawai pianos, its upweight, the way the keys push you up, felt artificial and unnatural to me. You have to pay very careful and close attention to this when trying out the K8 because it has an amazing action in general. Has anyone experienced this?

Just my 2 cents.

#163320 - 05/12/08 06:52 AM Re: Kawai K8 v Yamaha YUS5  
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Kerryma Offline
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Thank you so much for your views. I certainly will take this information on board when I go back to retest both pianos. I will also look into the other pianos mentioned. Thank you once again. Kerry


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#1293483 - 10/25/09 03:55 PM Re: Kawai K8 v Yamaha YUS5 [Re: Kerryma]  
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Hi Kerry - Which one did you get in the end? I'm looking at both the YUS 5 and the K 8 and I'm curious about your opinion. Thanks.


Lily L. - Certified Music Teacher, CT....
Sauter Master Class 130
Roland MP-70
#1816964 - 01/02/12 11:27 AM Re: Kawai K8 v Yamaha YUS5 [Re: mozartian18]  
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Originally Posted by mozartian18
. . .I found the YUS 3 to be a better value than the YU5, as both are the same pianos except for two things: grand-like music rack and the addition of the sostenuto pedal for the 5.


The YUS5 has the ivorite keytops. The YUS3 does not. The music rack on the YUS5 has openings on the sides that increases direct access to the sound. The YUS3 does not.

The YUS5 has the German wire and fancy hammers just like Yamaha's most expensive grand. I think the YUS3 may also have both these features but I'm not sure. Can anyone clarify this last point?

#1816973 - 01/02/12 11:49 AM Re: Kawai K8 v Yamaha YUS5 [Re: jivemutha]  
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YUS3 and YUS5 are the same internally, except for the music rack and ivorite keys found on the YUS5.

Now back to the main question. I've played both the K-8 and YUS5 and I've prefered the YUS5. The K-8, while although as many people have pointed out(and I've felt it myself too) an perform really fast trills easily, I found the tone lacking. Also, I felt the YUS5 had more sound! And the action on the YUS5 isn't too bad itself either. It just requires more finger weight.

Hence I bought a YUS5 in the end.

#1817162 - 01/02/12 05:08 PM Re: Kawai K8 v Yamaha YUS5 [Re: virtuosowannabe]  
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The differences that favor the YUS5 over the YUS3 now appear to be established:

--sustenuto pedal
--better music desk
--better wheels
--ivorite keys
--arguably somewhat better access to the sound due to the openings between the upper boards and the music desk.

Apparently the fancy wire/hammer in the YUS5 (that separates it from a regular U3) are no different from what's found in the YUS3.

To this, one can add either one additional positive (snoot factor--the 5 doesn't look like an ordinary U3) or perhaps a negative (some posters, particularly from Europe, have said they favor the YUS3/U3 appearance to that of the YUS5).

Mozartian18 feels that the cost difference between the YUS3 and YUS5 is not worth it, but as yet, I don't know approximately how much we're talking here.

Dealers won't talk price over the phone or internet, but there ain't no law against it for us ordinary folk, so . . .

What can anyone tell me about the difference in prices they were quoted between the YUS3 and YUS5? Quotes need to be recent, as Yamaha prices have gone up in the last few months. (If the yen goes any higher against the dollar, they will be able to buy the Brooklyn Bridge for pocket change.) Thanks in advance.

#1817315 - 01/02/12 07:59 PM Re: Kawai K8 v Yamaha YUS5 [Re: jivemutha]  
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PassingBy Offline
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Originally Posted by mozartian18
Although its action felt excellent and even throughout, typical of Kawai pianos, its upweight, the way the keys push you up, felt artificial and unnatural to me. You have to pay very careful and close attention to this when trying out the K8 because it has an amazing action in general. Has anyone experienced this?

Just my 2 cents.


I have, actually. My guess would be because the action is so fast, the upweight and key return is fast, unnaturally fast that it becomes almost too fast to feel "normal", though this is subjective.

Originally Posted by jivemutha

The YUS5 has the ivorite keytops. The YUS3 does not. The music rack on the YUS5 has openings on the sides that increases direct access to the sound. The YUS3 does not.

The YUS5 has the German wire and fancy hammers just like Yamaha's most expensive grand. I think the YUS3 may also have both these features but I'm not sure. Can anyone clarify this last point?


The YUS series has the german Röslau wire and the same hammer felt as the CF series of premium handmade grands.

My quote for the RRP is not recent. It is from 2011, but here goes (they are approximate, and in glossy black finish)

YUS3: AUD $15k
YUS5: AUD $18k

Personally i like the YUS5 better, the tone is richer in my opinion. But not by much. You choose in the end, see which one you like better. Keep us updated!

#1817428 - 01/02/12 10:44 PM Re: Kawai K8 v Yamaha YUS5 [Re: PassingBy]  
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Originally Posted by Rotom
My quote for the RRP is not recent. It is from 2011, but here goes (they are approximate, and in glossy black finish)

YUS3: AUD $15k
YUS5: AUD $18k


Thank you. By phone (where they can't talk specifics) one dealer said a YUS3 was about $3000 more than a U3, but unlike the numbers above from Australia, the YUS5 was only about $1000 dollars U.S. more than the YUS3. Does anybody have recent quotes on YUS3 and YUS5 from the U.S.?

#1827604 - 01/19/12 03:47 AM Re: Kawai K8 v Yamaha YUS5 [Re: jivemutha]  
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I am looking for any recent USA quotes on Yamaha U3 , YUS3, and YUS5 as well. I am in the North East

#1827730 - 01/19/12 10:14 AM Re: Kawai K8 v Yamaha YUS5 [Re: Kerryma]  
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Back East very-good (but not crazy going-out-of-business) prices on new U3s have been stated recently on pianoworld as typically over $9,500 and under $10,000.

Add vageuly $3K for a YUS3. Add yet an additional $1k+ for a YUS5.

NOTE: Jeff Bauer, a player and a knowledgeable L.A. dealer and frequent pianoworld forum contributor, tells us that virtually nobody opts for the YUS3 because of the small difference in price between the 2 fancier choices. Oddly, this isn't just the music desk and the ivorite keys, more airbags and moon roof, but also the SOUND!

While this makes no sense (YUS3 and 5 have identical specs), other respected dealers (e.g., the Venebles in the UK) say the same thing. There are theories about why the YUS5 sounds better ("more mass," "direct access to the sound as a function of the openings on either side of the music desk," etc.), nobody really knows. Still, everybody says it SOUNDS a little better than the YUS3, which in turn sounds better than the U3.

Of course buck for buck, the U3 is the best deal. As Larry Fine says, as the quality improves, the value (what you get for your money) typically declines. (Do you really think a Bosendorfer can really sound 37 times better than a Hailun grand?)

#1827746 - 01/19/12 10:50 AM Re: Kawai K8 v Yamaha YUS5 [Re: Kerryma]  
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jivemutha - ask Jeff B what hammer mouldings are used on the American spec YUS3. On Yamaha America website it confirms both have the best hammer felt, but the YUS5 has walnut mouldings as per UK spec, but it doesn't boast that fact on the YUS3.

Either way, the YUS5 is the way to go.


Tech. & Partner: Venables Pianos
Yamaha Piano UK main dealer and Grand Piano Centre
Stocking new Yamaha, Petrof and Venables & Son
#1827753 - 01/19/12 11:13 AM Re: Kawai K8 v Yamaha YUS5 [Re: ChrisVenables]  
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Originally Posted by ChrisVenables
jivemutha - ask Jeff B what hammer mouldings are used on the American spec YUS3. On Yamaha America website it confirms both have the best hammer felt, but the YUS5 has walnut mouldings as per UK spec, but it doesn't boast that fact on the YUS3.

Either way, the YUS5 is the way to go.


Chris or Will: Jeff probably wouldn't know. He's pretty much says nobody gets a YUS3 and he never stocks them.

I just checked the Yamaha website for America. You're right! It's hard to imagine that the lack of mention of the walnut on the YUS3 is a mistake, particularly given that they DO mention it in regard to the YUS5. Maybe you've just uncovered a reason for the YUS5 to sound better than the YUS3.

In any case, that website may be very frustrating to use (as Yamaha seems to almost willfully be trying to make it difficult for us to understand the differences of one model versus another) but I've yet to find it inaccurate. Good detective work!

#1839977 - 02/07/12 05:10 AM Re: Kawai K8 v Yamaha YUS5 [Re: Kerryma]  
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The Kawai K6 or K8 price in USA? Anybody with street information or recent quotes?

#1840026 - 02/07/12 08:44 AM Re: Kawai K8 v Yamaha YUS5 [Re: Rafterman]  
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When I casually looked around about a year ago for a K-8, none of the local dealers had one on the floor. They said they could easily get one for me to look at and play, but they typically did not stock one as the interest was not there. It appears most people will go for a grand as they approach that price.

I did get an over-the-phone ballpark quote (1 year ago-from the same dealer who sold me my current piano) of approximately $17-18K for the K-8. I have a K3 and just couldn't quite bring myself to spending the extra money for that upgrade....just yet.....




I don't care too much for money. For money can't buy me love.
-the Beatles



#1840047 - 02/07/12 09:33 AM Re: Kawai K8 v Yamaha YUS5 [Re: Kerryma]  
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Using the latest Piano Buyer and the discount being applied in Southern California, the K-6 could go for round $9000 and the K-8 for about $10,000.

Maybe.


Gary
Essex EUP-111 at the mountains
W. Hoffmann T-122 at the beach
#1840127 - 02/07/12 12:40 PM Re: Kawai K8 v Yamaha YUS5 [Re: Kerryma]  
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I remember Don Mannino telling me during one of his visits at Grand Piano Haus that all Kawai K-series strung backs are indeed manufactured in Indonesia.


Jeff Tasch
Grand Piano Haus








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#1840173 - 02/07/12 01:43 PM Re: Kawai K8 v Yamaha YUS5 [Re: Grand Piano Haus]  
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Originally Posted by Grand Piano Haus
Kawai K-series strung backs are indeed manufactured in Indonesia.

Jeff Tasch
Grand Piano Haus


This is a curiously unsolicited comment for this thread.
Wait, aren't you closing out your Kawai inventory (i.e. no longer going to be a Kawai dealer)?


Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
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#1840298 - 02/07/12 05:43 PM Re: Kawai K8 v Yamaha YUS5 [Re: terminaldegree]  
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I have never seen any information stating that the K series are made in Indonesia. Is it possible the K2 and K3 are? I am fairly certain the K6 and K8 are manufactured in Japan. Could anyone verify this? Thanks!

#1840303 - 02/07/12 05:51 PM Re: Kawai K8 v Yamaha YUS5 [Re: Kerryma]  
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My K-2 has a tag stating "Made in Indonesia". According to Piano Buyer, the K-3 and above made for USA consumption are made in Japan.


Gary
Essex EUP-111 at the mountains
W. Hoffmann T-122 at the beach
#1840307 - 02/07/12 05:54 PM Re: Kawai K8 v Yamaha YUS5 [Re: Kerryma]  
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That K2 is still an awesome piano for that money.
Indonesia or Japan made.

#1843544 - 02/13/12 12:24 AM Re: Kawai K8 v Yamaha YUS5 [Re: Grand Piano Haus]  
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Originally Posted by Grand Piano Haus
I remember Don Mannino telling me during one of his visits at Grand Piano Haus that all Kawai K-series strung backs are indeed manufactured in Indonesia.

Jeff Tasch Grand Piano Haus


You remember incorrectly. Not true.


Don Mannino, MPA
Kawai America
#1843553 - 02/13/12 12:46 AM Re: Kawai K8 v Yamaha YUS5 [Re: KawaiDon]  
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Hey Don could you answer a question while you are here? Is there a "Practice" lever on the K8 since it has a middle sustenuto pedal? Is it an option or standard?

Also, another gentleman on the forum had purchased a K8 and had some minor problems with the sustenuto feature which lead him to return the piano to the dealer. He then spoke of getting a K8 WITHOUT the sustenuto. Is that even an option? Thanks!

#1843644 - 02/13/12 06:55 AM Re: Kawai K8 v Yamaha YUS5 [Re: Kerryma]  
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Indonesia or Japan? It doesn't matter.

Kawai UK told me dealers over here have the option of buying Indonesian K3 or slightly more expensive Japanese built K3. UK dealers now only take Indonesian because they can't distinguish any difference in quality.


Tech. & Partner: Venables Pianos
Yamaha Piano UK main dealer and Grand Piano Centre
Stocking new Yamaha, Petrof and Venables & Son
#1843648 - 02/13/12 07:09 AM Re: Kawai K8 v Yamaha YUS5 [Re: ChrisVenables]  
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Chris do you know if the Kawai K8 has a standard practice lever like the YUS5 has? Is it a customer option? Also is there a way to order that K8 WITHOUT a sustenuto? I saw another thread were a gentleman had a Kawai k8 with a sustenuto issue. He returned the piano and stated he intended to get another K8 without the sustenuto feature. Is that possible or an option?

#1843675 - 02/13/12 09:27 AM Re: Kawai K8 v Yamaha YUS5 [Re: Kerryma]  
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I'm no longer a Kawai dealer and don't know if the current K8 has a celeste rail/practice lever or whether you can order a K8 without a sostenuto. However, it's an easy job for a dealer or tech to fit a celeste rail/practice lever retrospectively if that's what you want. I'm not a big believer in resale values, but having the sostenuto would make it easier to resell than without. (or should I say the buyer would have one less reason to knock you down on price) grin

Regarding the sostenuto problem in an earlier thread. It sounded to me that it was nothing more than a sostenuto tab regulation issue. On the Yamahas and Kawais I have seen, I have only had one in 30 years which needed a couple of sostenuto tabs regulating. Once they're sorted it's almost certain they will never need touching again.


Tech. & Partner: Venables Pianos
Yamaha Piano UK main dealer and Grand Piano Centre
Stocking new Yamaha, Petrof and Venables & Son
#1843754 - 02/13/12 12:06 PM Re: Kawai K8 v Yamaha YUS5 [Re: Rafterman]  
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Originally Posted by Rafterman
That K2 is still an awesome piano for that money.
Indonesia or Japan made.


Agreed.


Gary
Essex EUP-111 at the mountains
W. Hoffmann T-122 at the beach
#1843817 - 02/13/12 01:46 PM Re: Kawai K8 v Yamaha YUS5 [Re: Kerryma]  
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I played on a brand new YUS5 yesterday at a dealer near Boston.
Except for a German-made Sieler upright, it was probably one of the best uprights I've ever played on. The action was very responsive, and felt quite close to that of a grand piano. While I would have preferred the touch to have been a bit lighter, (I almost always feel this way) I felt completely in-control of the sound, compared to by Samick console at home. I was surprised that I could play so softly as well. Unfortunately, the price tag was too high for me : ( I haven't played on a K6 or K8 yet, but will likely be doing so next week.


"Play Bach constantly. That will be your best means of progress." -F.Chopin
#1843826 - 02/13/12 02:07 PM Re: Kawai K8 v Yamaha YUS5 [Re: Rafterman]  
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Originally Posted by Rafterman
Chris do you know if the Kawai K8 has a standard practice lever like the YUS5 has? Is it a customer option? Also is there a way to order that K8 WITHOUT a sustenuto? I saw another thread were a gentleman had a Kawai k8 with a sustenuto issue. He returned the piano and stated he intended to get another K8 without the sustenuto feature. Is that possible or an option?


why would you want a K8 without the sustenuto? Just don't use it....
I think when I asked my dealer, he said you could still use the "practice feature" of that pedal -anyone have evidence to the contrary?


I don't care too much for money. For money can't buy me love.
-the Beatles



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New Topics - Multiple Forums
When people think the composer is someone else
by Mark_C. 09/25/17 06:48 PM
Anyone who likes Chopin (Noct 9 opus 1) but intimidated
by piano_primo_1. 09/25/17 05:51 PM
The Fourth
by Goof. 09/25/17 05:18 PM
The Secret Life of Pianos
by Grandman. 09/25/17 02:32 PM
What makes me play too loudly?
by Beemer. 09/25/17 08:21 AM
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