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#1628219 02/25/11 11:18 PM
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KenD77 Offline OP
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Just came across a 5 year old Vogel 177t. Sounded very nice and couldn't believe the price for a European brand.

I posted a link below with a very good example of how the piano sounds.

http://www.wellspianos.com/content/schimmel-vogel-511-model-177t-15000

Not sure how fair a comparison this is but here it goes... which is the better buy: a brand new Hailun 198 or a used Vogel 177t?

People tend to get somewhat paranoid on this forum so to explain why I created this topic, for the record I'm a very satisfied Hailun owner but just thought it'd be fun to get others' spin on the comparison. Thanks!! smile




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I think the Vogel is a better piano overall.


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The Hailun is 8+ inches longer.

When comparing decent quality pianos, that is very significant.

The physics are hard to overcome.

[Is is just me, or does this reply have XXX overtones?]


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Nothing XXX about it. The physics may be challenging to overcome, but if the scale design and build quality isn't up to par, the extra length can be inconsequential.


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I haven't played a Hailun, but have heard the raves here. I have played a Vogel and while it was a nice piano I wouldn't rave about it. However, you should buy the one that plays and sounds best to you as long as you can afford the price.


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KenD77 Offline OP
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Thanks for the responses so far. I figured it'd be a hard comparison given that they are not equal sizes but was wondering if a case could be made for the Vogel over the Hailun given it's Schimmel relation and potential superior build quality if any.

Also, Vogel appeared to me to be the Hailun version of the European pianos in price and quality when comparing Hailun as the cheaper alternative to buying a new Yamaha or Kawai.


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Kieran is a first class dealer. I have no doubt that you will be given ample opportunity to come to a conclusion of your own. Both pianos are very nice.
Good luck
Norbert smile


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Looks like there's a decent thread on Vogel from last November. For a performance grade grand according to Piano Buyer latest edition, I'm surprised it doesn't get talked about more frequently given its price. I honestly never heard of Vogel until very recently.

I'd love to hear more from people who's owned one for a while and their experiences with Vogel.


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i have a vogel 177... love it... there are better pianos but many more that are not as good... and for the price very few can compete.


i didnt play much when i bought it but i could clearly understand the difference between the vogel and others in the option list... it was hands down... cabinetry and aesthetics were amazing as well.

that reminds me i haven't ever posted pics of my baby yet. should do that this weekend.

would not choose a chinese brand of any type over a vogel...

in the price range, unless you are buying used or want a something larger than around 6 ft, its just the best value... imo

Last edited by Theodore Slutz; 02/26/11 10:45 PM.

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The Vogels I tried out five or six years ago were very sweet pianos, and a very good deal. I've only played one small Hailun grand and that just a couple weeks ago. I was highly unimpressed. Just another lowball Chinese piano. Maybe the bigger ones are better, but did not care for the tone or the action.


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I have often said that people comparing pianos simply by brand can easily miss some of the most important facts.

We all know each piano is different. Both Vogels and Hailuns are good pianos, but the ones you mentioned are of different size.

As a dealer,we had some Hailuns which were less impressive than others. Others blew us away - straight out of crate.

You really have to compare the particular pianos by the merits they individually have.

Good luck in your choice.

Norbert


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Originally Posted by Norbert

As a dealer,we had some Hailuns which were less impressive than others. Others blew us away - straight out of crate.
Norbert


I think in soccer this comment is what is known as an 'own goal'. grin


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I think in soccer this comment is what is known as an 'own goal'. grin


Not really.

First of all, this concerns *all* makes - right across the board.

It can and often does involve pianos from all sections, high end as well as consumer grade. In fact, in the high grade section this may be of even more importance.

It's exactly the reason many people rifle through a large number of top end pianos by same maker to find "the one"

These are things most dealers and people working with pianos would agree, perhaps not always openly though..

Secondly, so much depends on prep and customer preference.

If a particular piano doesn't come out top notch from crate, it doesn't mean it can't be turned into one.

Fact is, there will always be some variance, no matter what.

It's exactly what allows customers picking what they may deem one superior model over another.

Norbert

Last edited by Norbert; 02/27/11 08:10 PM.

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Originally Posted by Norbert
Quote
I think in soccer this comment is what is known as an 'own goal'. grin


Not really.

First of all, this concerns *all* makes - right across the board.

It can and often does involve pianos from all sections, high end as well as consumer grade. In fact, in the high grade section this may be of even more importance.

It's exactly the reason many people rifle through a large number of top end pianos by same maker to find "the one"

These are things most dealers and people working with pianos would agree, perhaps not always openly though..

Secondly, so much depends on prep and customer preference.

If a particular piano doesn't come out top notch from crate, it doesn't mean it can't be turned into one.

Fact is, there will always be some variance, no matter what.

It's exactly what allows customers picking what they may deem one superior model over another.

Norbert


I think in el futbol americano, this is what is known as a 'punt'. smile

The thread question is model specific: Hailun 198. I don't believe for a minute that you are booting Frank Emerson out of your Designer Hall of Fame by declaring that some 198's are less impressive and others are vacuum-packed so when you open the crate they blow you away.

Either you're saying that Hailun's consistency in general isn't great, or you're saying that Hailun's consistency with the 198 isn't all that could be desired. It's hard to interpret "some Hailuns that were less impressive" as simply a matter of taste. Maybe you're talking about the models you don't cherrrypick, but the thread is specific to the 198.


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Tur:

I think we have to distinguish between a manufacturer's 'consistency' and the tweaking, i.e. improving of a new model.

When the Hailun 198 grand was first introduced it didn't seem to make the impact one would expect over the already very successful, smaller 178 grand. It had nothing to do with Hailun's built quality or 'consistency' but other things such as choosing optimal hammers for this particualar piano.

My own take was that Mr. Hailun Chen was hellbent to make most of his components himself but there are cases where IMHO only the very best will do.

On NAAM 2010 an improved version 198 was introduced, this time with top grade German Abel hammers. IMHO this made a big difference to both tone color and tone projection.

In fact I now believe the 198 being one of Hailun's strongest models.

So yes, there are sometimes different versions of new models floating around, the Hailun 198 far from being the only example.

My final take is that the Vogel grand is also a very nice piano and I wish OP the best to make the right decision for himself.

Norbert smile


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KenD77 Offline OP
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Well, I stopped by Kieran's store to check it out for myself and my verdict is that they tied. My Hailun 198 has better sound IMO but I preferred the action on the Vogel. It felt lighter and after playing my 198 for about a year, I'm finding that I prefer lighter.

Kieran mentioned that the 198's are more stable vs the Vogel though when I was chatting with him about the comparisons.

Anyway, I guess that about does it for me with this thread. Thank you for everyone who participated and shared! smile


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Originally Posted by Norbert
Tur:

I think we have to distinguish between a manufacturer's 'consistency' and the tweaking, i.e. improving of a new model.

When the Hailun 198 grand was first introduced it didn't seem to make the impact one would expect over the already very successful, smaller 178 grand. It had nothing to do with Hailun's built quality or 'consistency' but other things such as choosing optimal hammers for this particualar piano.

My own take was that Mr. Hailun Chen was hellbent to make most of his components himself but there are cases where IMHO only the very best will do.

On NAAM 2010 an improved version 198 was introduced, this time with top grade German Abel hammers. IMHO this made a big difference to both tone color and tone projection.

In fact I now believe the 198 being one of Hailun's strongest models.

So yes, there are sometimes different versions of new models floating around, the Hailun 198 far from being the only example.

My final take is that the Vogel grand is also a very nice piano and I wish OP the best to make the right decision for himself.

Norbert smile


Norbert,

Thank you. That' was interesting and informative.

Hellbent, huh? In el futbol americano that would be referred to as a "helmet to helmet hit". grin

Ken,

Ask Kieran to check the action for you. Maybe he could adjust it to your liking. It's possible too it just needs easing.


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Originally Posted by KenD77
Looks like there's a decent thread on Vogel from last November. For a performance grade grand according to Piano Buyer latest edition, I'm surprised it doesn't get talked about more frequently given its price. I honestly never heard of Vogel until very recently.

I'd love to hear more from people who's owned one for a while and their experiences with Vogel.


I've had my Vogel77t for about three years now and have been very pleased. My tech has been impressed with it as well. I recently toured piano row again in February and while I played some very impressive instruments there (Steingraeber and Seiler impressed me), the value I got from the quality and tone in the Vogel have made it well worth it to me. I have no regrets other than not having another $40K or so in my budget!

On another note, I have played a Hailun and would not put it in the same category at all with the Vogel, even if you get a few more inches. If it is a big difference in price and that is a big factor, than having a grand is better than nothing at all!


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