2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.9 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Petrof Pianos
Petrof Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Karsten Collection
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Who's Online Now
62 members (CoogerTown, chopinetto, Beowulf, 20/20 Vision, @23sss, clothearednincompo, 16 invisible), 498 guests, and 404 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 4 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
Re: how to relax right hand
rozina #1629005 02/27/11 05:32 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,856
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,856
Originally Posted by rozina
. Do you feel that on my last 2 videos my hands are still stiff? I don't have Skype, but if you feel that the problem still persist in my latest recordings then I will check if I can set it up.
This vid:

the wrists are still quite tense - you're 'holding' them. Playing relax is not a matter of playing lighter - it's what you are not doing inbetween the notes that matters (as you seem to be figuring out).

(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Re: how to relax right hand
achat #1629023 02/27/11 06:56 AM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 122
R
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
R
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 122
I think I see what you mean. Thanks for pointing it out and taking the time to look at my playing. I will put more attention to that in my future practicing. My wrist does seem very tense!

Re: how to relax right hand
achat #1629026 02/27/11 07:34 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,856
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,856
If you want to email me what you are working on I'll do a vid (though all it gets me is derisive comments from some posters for playing 'simple' stuff).

Re: how to relax right hand
achat #1629040 02/27/11 08:10 AM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 3,336
T
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
T
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 3,336
(preparing to be shot down in flames)

How do I relax my hands? I stop playing every now and then and give them a good shake. I also roll my shoulders (up, down, front, back), roll my arms, stretch neck (front, back, left right, left and right tilt) and pay attention to what my back is doing. Oh, and I do the wrist stretches that got rid of the carpal tunnel syndrome.

Re: how to relax right hand
achat #1629046 02/27/11 08:20 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,856
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,856
I wouldn't go with giving them a good shake - just stop doing whatever you're doing with them. Roll each shoulder separately and place each one so it hangs down your back (instead of front).

Re: how to relax right hand
keyboardklutz #1629085 02/27/11 09:57 AM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 3,336
T
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
T
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 3,336
Originally Posted by keyboardklutz
I wouldn't go with giving them a good shake


Maybe, but it doesn't half feel good! smile

Re: how to relax right hand
keyboardklutz #1629092 02/27/11 10:17 AM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,464
N
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
N
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,464
Originally Posted by keyboardklutz

the wrists are still quite tense - you're 'holding' them. Playing relax is not a matter of playing lighter - it's what you are not doing inbetween the notes that matters (as you seem to be figuring out).


What do you think happens when a pianist performs a whole set of Chopin Etudes? They stiffen up throughout each of the moto perpetuo etudes and then only relax between pieces? Is that supposed to be a credible explanation?

Anyone who is aiming for a high level needs to learn to release the muscles around the wrist while playing- not simply between notes. Otherwise you just leave more difficult repetoire as a permanent impossibility. It's important to practise stopping between notes, as a first step, to release the arm. However, it's more important still to work on keeping the arm free throughout. The arm doesn't go "on and off" when a pianist plays Alkan at a constant 16 notes per second. It stays totally relaxed in elbow and wrist.

Re: how to relax right hand
keyboardklutz #1629112 02/27/11 11:08 AM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 403
J
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
J
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 403
Originally Posted by keyboardklutz
Originally Posted by John_In_Montreal

But I see pianists using a whole lot of different hand positions, movements, gestures, etc and I'm checking all that out by imitation & seeing how it feels, how it sounds.
You'll find pianists using many techniques even in a single piece. There's no one-size-fits-one-piece (apart from the odd toccata). If you're emulating here's some of our own:

NOTE: see previous post on page 2 for the actual videos. I've removed the links here to keep the message short and "light".




Hi Keyboardklutz,

Thank You very much for taking the time to find and post those videos, I appreciate your helpfulness. The vids confirm that I am somewhere on the right track. I would say that my hand-wrist-arm movements are mostly like "Peyton" and "BillM", and I do slide my fingers on the keys much like "MegumiNoda".

I presume you got these videos from the PW recitals? Good idea that I go have a look smile


John



"My piano is therapy for me" - Rick Wright.
Instrument: Rebuilt Kurzweil K2500XS and a bunch of great vintage virtual keyboards. New Kurzweil PC3X.
Re: how to relax right hand
Nyiregyhazi #1629115 02/27/11 11:15 AM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 403
J
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
J
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 403
Originally Posted by Nyiregyhazi
The arm doesn't go "on and off" when a pianist plays Alkan at a constant 16 notes per second. It stays totally relaxed in elbow and wrist.



Woooo ! 16 notes per second? that's a lot of notes in 1 second. So that's where the "10 years or 10,000Hrs" of practice and playing comes in, right ? smile


John


"My piano is therapy for me" - Rick Wright.
Instrument: Rebuilt Kurzweil K2500XS and a bunch of great vintage virtual keyboards. New Kurzweil PC3X.
Re: how to relax right hand
Nyiregyhazi #1629116 02/27/11 11:26 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,856
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,856
Originally Posted by Nyiregyhazi

Anyone who is aiming for a high level needs to learn to release the muscles around the wrist while playing- not simply between notes.
You know what would be useful? - if you did a video of this for rosina: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17138689/waltz.JPG rather than negative comments. (hope you don't mind the link rosina).

Re: how to relax right hand
achat #1629127 02/27/11 11:39 AM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,464
N
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
N
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,464
I am not providing negative comments. I am providing postive advice- about the importance of maintaining a perpetually released wrist (rather than utilising a limited system where it can only relax in pieces where there is enough time between notes). I provided the rational example of Chopin Etudes and Alkan for good reason- to show absurd it is to believe that the wrist could possibly alternate between tension and release 32 times in a second. If anyone does not want to be limited as a pianist, they need to appreciate that ongoing release is both possible and indeed necessary for advanced playing.

I'm afraid that this is not something that can be conveyed by the immediate surface of a brief video. In fact, I think it's far more helpful to explain that you do not need to experience tension in the wrist followed by release and that this will be a major limitation if it occurs. The exact means of balance that enables a wrist to be released yet still is something that needs to be felt- not something that can be copied from a surface appearance. If it were that easy, we'd all have the technique of Horowitz. Understanding what generates the stillness is what is important.

Re: how to relax right hand
John_In_Montreal #1629141 02/27/11 11:57 AM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,464
N
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
N
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,464
Originally Posted by John_In_Montreal
Originally Posted by Nyiregyhazi
The arm doesn't go "on and off" when a pianist plays Alkan at a constant 16 notes per second. It stays totally relaxed in elbow and wrist.



Woooo ! 16 notes per second? that's a lot of notes in 1 second. So that's where the "10 years or 10,000Hrs" of practice and playing comes in, right ? smile


John


Well, it would certainly help! However, nobody who uses the "relax when you can" approach (rather than learning ongoing release of the wrist) would get anywhere near playing this, with 10,000 hours or not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VPYwfTFFbM&feature=related

Re: how to relax right hand
Nyiregyhazi #1629144 02/27/11 12:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,794
S
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,794
Just an opinion.. but the wrist should always be supple.

Re: how to relax right hand
Nyiregyhazi #1629153 02/27/11 12:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 403
J
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
J
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 403
Originally Posted by Nyiregyhazi

I'm afraid that this is not something that can be conveyed by the immediate surface of a brief video. In fact, I think it's far more helpful to explain that you do not need to experience tension in the wrist followed by release and that this will be a major limitation if it occurs. The exact means of balance that enables a wrist to be released yet still is something that needs to be felt- not something that can be copied from a surface appearance. If it were that easy, we'd all have the technique of Horowitz. Understanding what generates the stillness is what is important.



...Hence, the whole idea of my observing my actions and reactions, trying things out hours on end to check the feel and musicality.

John


"My piano is therapy for me" - Rick Wright.
Instrument: Rebuilt Kurzweil K2500XS and a bunch of great vintage virtual keyboards. New Kurzweil PC3X.
Re: how to relax right hand
Nyiregyhazi #1629158 02/27/11 12:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 403
J
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
J
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 403
Originally Posted by Nyiregyhazi
Originally Posted by John_In_Montreal
Originally Posted by Nyiregyhazi
The arm doesn't go "on and off" when a pianist plays Alkan at a constant 16 notes per second. It stays totally relaxed in elbow and wrist.



Woooo ! 16 notes per second? that's a lot of notes in 1 second. So that's where the "10 years or 10,000Hrs" of practice and playing comes in, right ? smile


John


Well, it would certainly help! However, nobody who uses the "relax when you can" approach (rather than learning ongoing release of the wrist) would get anywhere near playing this, with 10,000 hours or not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VPYwfTFFbM&feature=related



My Goodness !! that IS f.a.s.t. !! Amazing. The kind of composition you learn by heart, no time to flip the pages LOL smile

John


"My piano is therapy for me" - Rick Wright.
Instrument: Rebuilt Kurzweil K2500XS and a bunch of great vintage virtual keyboards. New Kurzweil PC3X.
Re: how to relax right hand
John_In_Montreal #1629159 02/27/11 12:23 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,464
N
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
N
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,464
Originally Posted by John_In_Montreal

...Hence, the whole idea of my observing my actions and reactions, trying things out hours on end to check the feel and musicality.

John


Absolutely. You have to develop your own perceptions to fit everything together.

Re: how to relax right hand
Nyiregyhazi #1629162 02/27/11 12:29 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,856
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,856
Originally Posted by Nyiregyhazi
I'm afraid that this is not something that can be conveyed by the immediate surface of a brief video.
We'll take that as a no then? You'd rather go on about playing 32 notes a second in the AB forum?

Re: how to relax right hand
achat #1629166 02/27/11 12:35 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,464
N
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
N
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,464
Yes, I'd rather raise awareness of the basis that can creates enough physical ease of movement for even such extreme things to become possible- rather than upload a film of myself playing a piece for reasons that are unclear.

Re: how to relax right hand
Nyiregyhazi #1629173 02/27/11 12:46 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,856
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,856
Originally Posted by Nyiregyhazi
Yes, I'd rather raise awareness of the basis that can creates enough physical ease of movement for even such extreme things to become possible- rather than upload a film of myself playing a piece for reasons that are unclear.
Well ya know what they say - talk is cheap!

Re: how to relax right hand
achat #1629175 02/27/11 12:49 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,393
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,393
Paris Hilton says...

[Linked Image]

This conversation is so hot. Please continue it in one
of my many hotel rooms. 3hearts

Page 4 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

Moderated by  BB Player 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Hand Sanitizer for Musicians
Hand Sanitizer for Musicians
Musician's Hand Sanitizer available in our online store (and our Maple Street Music shop in Cornish Maine). Antibacterial, 62% ethyl alcohol. Hand Sanitizer for Musicians
Tons more music related products in our online store!
What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
Where Did The Buttons Go?!
----------------------
Our April 2020 Newsletter Available Online Now...
The Piano World During the Pandemic!
----------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Upgrading to Kawai CA99
by Beowulf - 05/28/20 08:36 AM
Kawai CA58 display
by ChrisGoesPiano - 05/28/20 04:58 AM
Do you teach sight reading?
by Ubu - 05/28/20 04:37 AM
Tool Backpack
by TimM_980 - 05/28/20 12:47 AM
Looking for a piano
by ThePenist - 05/28/20 12:25 AM
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics199,227
Posts2,963,071
Members97,210
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2020 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4