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Hello,

My 6yo daughter just started piano lessons for ~ 5 months. Her teacher is using the Alfred Prep Series and she is currently working on Level C. She loves her teacher and is enjoying piano lessons, but I have concerns about her teacher's teaching technique. I feel as though she gives my daughter too many songs per week (6-7 songs) and that her expectations for passing the songs are low. My daughter has a very difficult time with rhythm/tempo and note-reading. She relies a lot on positions and does more intervallic reading. I don't see too much emphasis on technique.

I've mentioned my concerns to her teacher in a very nice way, explaining that I would prefer that my daughter progresses more slowly so that she can concentrate more on technique and setting a good foundation. I'd rather her play 2-3 songs really well than 5-6 songs only so-so. Her teacher explained that while she acknowledges my concerns, she feels that my daughter is still so young and that she will have plenty of time to work on technique, note-reading, rhythm/tempo...etc..

My 9yo son has a different teacher who is a little more strict and focuses a lot more on artistry/technique. His teacher has a higher level of expectation for him to pass a song. Granted he is older, I feel like his progress is more steady and he seems to be establishing a strong foundation. Moreover, he really likes his teacher and also enjoys piano lessons immensely.

The reason I have 2 different teachers is because my children can go to lessons at the studio at the same time. Also, I thought that the two teachers' personalities fit well with my children's age and personality.

So my questions are:
1. What are your thought about my daughter's teacher and her approach to teaching?
2. Should I just trust her teacher and go along with it?
3. What should be my expectation level for a 6yo with regard to technique/artistry, note-reading, learning rhythm/tempo, etc.. ??

I should mention that I'm not a "Tiger Mom"; I'm not hoping to produce some concert pianists. I just wanted to expose my kids to piano for the pure love of music and am happy that they are enjoying their lessons so much. However, if they continue to take to piano, I would like them to have a strong foundation in the basics.

Any advice/input would be very much appreciated.

Thank you!!

Interesting juxtaposition of threads with parent whose beginner child has been working on just one piece for several months.

Six pieces (songs?) each take 20 to 30 seconds to play, so if the student plays each one five times, they're "practicing" for 10 to 15 minutes a day. Does that sound reasonable to you?

You didn't indicate whether each piece was new from week to week (they may not be), so there is an element of review/maturation going on.

Generally, students of mine who are in Methods, ie, beginners, have a regimen of 4 to 6 drills from the Technique book; these look like pieces (songs) but are not. Most weeks, I will be adding 2 new drills and dropping the oldest 2 drills. There are also have a diet of 3 to 4 pieces from their Lesson book. Again, 1 or 2 may be new from week to week, but some weeks, no new pieces. Finally, they repertory book, Performance, have 2 or 3 on going pieces which they are refining.

So the number of pieces the teacher is assigning may not be at all unreasonable.

The question is then: Is the teacher's focus on the right elements of the student's lesson? That's difficult to answer without actually observing. You're comparing a 6 year old's learning with that of a 9 year old. That's a huge gap age-wise, in learning speed. Plus your daughter's learning style may be quite different from you son's (surprise!). In fairness, it's really hard to reflect back three years and remember what your son's learning speed was back then.

Your final comment is interesting to me:


What if you daughter has that potential? Would you help her develop it? How?

1. Since you mention that this teacher's personality fits your daughter better than the strict teacher, I think that speaks volumes. I'm sure you realize this, but your children are two different people and will progress at the same activity in very different ways. You may not realize this, but you are comparing the two (or it appears that way from your post).

I work with students of all ages, and with young students in general, you can really only address one concept at a time with them. When they show they can do that concept over several pieces, then you move onto the next concept. Lots of progress over lots of pieces is really helpful to encourage them. I may talk a little about technique, but only when I think they can handle it. I may pick one piece that they learn to performance level, but the rest we simply play until they can prove they understand that concept. I do address any technical things that I think will develop into bad habits, but with the small hands and fingers there's only so much that physically can be done about it.

As they get older, I gradually work more and more on several concepts in layers, so we spend more time on pieces. While I personally do not assign 6-7 pieces at once (I also don't use Alfred, so I'm not familiar with the pacing on these books), I think this teacher is a good match for your daughter from what you've said.

2) Yes.

3) Expect mistakes and imperfections. Coordination at this age is a very new thing. It wasn't too long ago that they mastered coordination of large muscles, now they're learning it with the smaller muscles. It's a process, and the best thing you can do is encourage her at whatever pace she is progressing. It's hard, but do not compare with her brother. It can instill a feeling of having to win your approval by competing with her older brother, and that's a very hard thing to place on a child.

It seems you have the right attitude about wanting your children to be exposed to music and to enjoy it. If your daughter is enjoying it, for now, let it be. As she gets older, the teacher should gradually make adjustments and spend more time on each piece.

Have you observed your daughter's teacher's older students in a recital perhaps?

I'm not a teacher, I'm just a parent. But my son started at about age 5 1/2. He has had 3 teachers. Teacher #1 worked extremely slowly through pieces and demanded good technique. She was talking about things like balance and artistry with him from very early on. Once his small motor skills kicked in and he became used to what she wanted, he was able to move through music fairly quickly. I was say this teacher considered him "high potential". We are still in contact with her 3 1/2 years later!

Teacher #1 moved away, sadly. Teacher #2 (son was age 6 at this point) was much more like your daughter's teacher. My child's playing got sloppier by the month. Teacher #2 had some good older students, but honestly their technique and playing in general was just sloppier. He really liked how fast my kid could move through repertoire, so he let him race through things without really mastering any pieces well. This drove me crazy after I knew he could be playing much better than he now was so onto teacher #3

Teacher #3 is a master teacher with a doctorate, that performs on a regular basis. He was picky when my son started with him at age 7. Honestly, the first 6 months transition to this teacher was extremely difficult after teacher #2. But at that point, my child started playing really well again and has quickly moved through repertoire ever since. I can not tell you the discussions my son and his teacher have now (he is now 10). Kid now is playing pieces that some of his teenage students play and he demands that they are played as well as the bigger kids. On the other hands, I know a number of families who have transferred to other teachers at our music school because he's too demanding!

I think there are many approaches that can work. But not every approach will work with every child. Are the pieces getting more difficult, or are they staying about the same level? I do think some young children cannot focus on more than 1 learning point at a time, but I don't necessarily think that means you need to race them through levels without mastery. It also depends on your comfort level. Teacher #2 about drove me crazy. But other parents I know whose kids move more slowly think he's great.

I now have another 6 year old taking violin and not piano. Her violin teacher takes a gentle mastery approach too and doesn't race. There is a big difference between the ages (my older just turned 10). How old was your son when he started and what was his teacher like early on?

Good luck!

Hi John,

Thank you for your reply!

Your approach sounds very similar to my son's teacher which I think works well for him. He started lessons at the same time as my daughter but he is using the Faber Piano Adventures series. He is currently half way through level 1 (lesson book, technique/artistry, theory and Gold Star Performance). I like that his teacher assigns drills, theory and then a few songs (3-4) from the lesson book. As an incentive, he gets to practice 1-2 songs from the performance book which he gets so excited about. His teacher expects him to master the performance songs before he is assigned a new song. This encourages him to practice so that he can "graduate" to the next song.

You're right, 6 new songs each week isn't a lot and does sound reasonable to me. My daughter practices for ~10 min 2-3 times a day which is also reasonable to me and appropriate for her age and attention level. However, I find her playing to be sloppy and rushed, as if she's constantly racing to get to the next song/book. She's always looking ahead and gets so excited, anticipating the new songs that she'll be able to play. I want to encourage/support her enthusiasm but I also want to balance it with some sense of mastery....you know, the adage, "quality versus quantity". However, I do want to recognize her age and developmental level which is why I posted my questions ---- to understand better what my expectations of her should be.

"What if you daughter has that potential? Would you help her develop it? How?"
To answer your question, yes, of course! I strongly believe that the drive has to come from within the child first and then led/guided by the adult/parent. I don't believe in the Tiger Mom approach for my children (although it may work for other families) because I want them to love/play piano for them and not to please me. I'm also an adult beginner and I'm learning along with my children. I think it's been invaluable for them to see that mom struggles with learning new pieces too and that practice can be a lot of fun.


Linh

Hi Morodiene,

I really appreciate all your input! It is extremely helpful for me to hear other perspectives. My daughter's teacher is very sweet and nice. I'm always afraid about stepping on toes or hurting her feelings, even though I am very conscientious about my choice of words when raising my concerns to her.

"It's hard, but do not compare with her brother. It can instill a feeling of having to win your approval by competing with her older brother, and that's a very hard thing to place on a child."

I totally agree with you 100%!! I am very cognizant about not comparing my kids, yet in comparing their two teachers, I had to in essence compare the kids as well. I am constantly telling the them that everyone learns at his/her own pace (even mommy) and that I only expect them to try their best. I think it's been helpful that they are using different method books so that they can move along at their own pace.

I expect them to progress at different rates, but I was uncomfortable at seeing my son progress in a very slow, but deliberate pace (which I like) while my daughter appears to be moving along in a rushed and sloppy pace. Having absolutely zero musical background, I wasn't sure if this is to be expected given their different ages, developmental levels and learning styles.

My daughter's teacher is a good fit for my daughter personality wise...but I just wasn't too sure about her approach. You made a lot of good points and I will definitely keep them in mind!!


Thank you so much!!

Hi kck

[quote=kck]Have you observed your daughter's teacher's older students in a recital perhaps?

No, but this is a great suggestion. I'm looking forward to the next recital where I can do this.

Since I have no musical background and my kids and I have only started playing piano for ~5 months, I'm not quite sure exactly what I want from a piano teacher. My concern is that what I want in a teacher may not be what's in the best interest for either my daughter or my son.

My son's teacher initially struck me as too stern and rigid, yet over time, I realized that her approach works well for him and I like seeing his slow but steady progress. My daughter's teacher gave me a great first impression, because my daughter liked the games and fun drills that she incorporated during the piano lessons. While I do believe that learning piano should be fun, I want to strike a good balance with establishing a solid foundation for the basics. You're correct in saying that different approaches work for different children and I'm constantly reminding myself that.


[quote=kck] Are the pieces getting more difficult, or are they staying about the same level?
She's doing the Alfred Prep series so each song builds on what was learned in the previous songs with a lot of review.

Thank you so much for sharing your experiences with your various teachers!! It provided useful insight and will help me get a better idea of what I'm looking for in a teacher for my children. Like they say, "The proof is in the pudding." and time will eventually tell.

One thing I've learned with both kids now that my son is at 4 1/2 years into this journey and my 6 year old started at 4 years old, is the right teacher early on may not be the right teacher later also! Both my kid's earliest teachers were very comfortable with early childhood and knew how to make it fun and little kid friendly. Lots of games. My son insisted on hugging his first teacher after every lesson - he just loved her! Who knows - maybe she would still work now for him, but our current teacher feels like a perfect fit. You can always reassess as time goes on!

Point well taken, kck! I figure I'd stick with her current teacher for the rest of the school year and then reassess if needed.

Thanks!

The only thing that hasn't been said that I would add is that just because your daughter isn't mastering counting yet doesn't mean her teacher isn't teaching it. I have one student who just could not fully grasp counting for over a year! It was awful. Her mom kept mentioning that she'll call in, "COUNTING, M----!" while her daughter is practicing. It's finally clicking. I have made her play songs over and over and over, to the point of mutual frustration, to perfect the counting when everything else was mastered. With kids, results are sometimes instantaneous and sometimes very slow. Sometimes you think you'll never see them when BAM! there they are.

Hi Brinestone,

Thank you for your insight and words of hope.

Her teacher is definitely teaching the concepts and my daughter does understand what's being taught. My issue is that my daughter doesn't consistently demonstrate what she has learned when she is playing. For example, she understands exactly what a quarter/half/whole notes/rests are yet she is sloppy about actually counting them out so her rhythm can be haphazard and her tempo is not steady...she'll go fast, then slow. She really doesn't like practicing with a metronome, because I think it accentuates her mistakes in counting which of course frustrates her.

I expect this from my 6yo due to her developmental level and temperament. Which is the very reason why I have asked her teacher to slow the pace down...to stress the importance of the basics...to make sure that she demonstrates concepts learned more consistently. I'm afraid that moving her along too fast is somehow reinforcing bad habits that may be more difficult to undo down the line.

Another example....last week she was introduced to eighth notes. Again, I was a little concerned because of her lack of consistency with counting. Can't imagine her doing any better with counting out eighth notes when she doesn't have a solid foundation of the other notes first.

I'm trying to balance taking a laid lack approach so that lessons will continue to be fun with instilling a decent work ethic to establish a strong foundation of the basics. The thing is my daughter is very enthusiastic about lessons and she will do what her teacher asks 'cause she adores all her teachers. Which is why I want her teacher to expect a little more from her before passing her to the next piece.

My ultimate goal is to nurture a love of music so perhaps I shouldn't get too bent out of shape if my daughter is enjoying herself, albeit in a sloppy way????

Maybe I should try my son's teacher for my daughter and see if the results are any different?? But then again, I'm afraid to hurt her teacher's feelings so maybe I'll give her the benefit of the doubt for the rest of the school year???

Music2myears,

In light of your most recent post, I would also be concerned if your daughter's teacher is not expecting that for the most part the rhythms are correct. You had talked mostly of technique originally, which one can only deal with as the child is able at that age. A 6 year old can do good rhythms (at least somewhat accurate ones)...but then moving on to play 8th notes on top of that? I would definitely have a trial lesson with your son's teacher and see what comes of that. Your daughter, however, may respond negatively at first, but over all a teacher that asks for more will get more (within reason).

You have talked to the teacher and she has either refused to do as you have asked, or she has tried but is not capable of teaching in that manner. You should never worry about hurting a teacher's feelings. It is in your daughter's best interest, and that should always be foremost in your mind. If the teacher reacts badly when you have given her ample opportunity to change her tactics, then it is more a reflection of her character than yours.