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Re: New composite action parts?? #615143
12/12/08 02:37 PM
12/12/08 02:37 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,277
Tomball, Texas
J
John Pels Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
John Pels  Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
J

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,277
Tomball, Texas
Larry, I'm sure you've been off to fry bigger fish, but when you get a chance please tell me what dimensions you need.
Thanks,John

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Re: New composite action parts?? #615144
12/12/08 02:56 PM
12/12/08 02:56 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 342
England
J
James Senior Offline
Full Member
James Senior  Offline
Full Member
J

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 342
England
Hi Larry,
please detail the dimensions here as it's of great interest to me.
I check your website from time to time - I'm looking forward to seeing the final pictures of that Steinway case restoration - wow!
You guys are true craftsmen.
J

Re: New composite action parts?? #615145
12/12/08 06:53 PM
12/12/08 06:53 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,456
Lowell MA
Larry Buck Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Larry Buck  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,456
Lowell MA
As I think about it it is lengthy to write.

I will come up with diagrams.

John and James, check your email

Larry


"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."
Mark Twain

E. J. Buck & Sons
Lowell MA 01852
978 458 8688
www.ejbuckpiano.com
http://www.facebook.com/EJBuckPerformances
Re: New composite action parts?? #615146
02/16/09 12:17 PM
02/16/09 12:17 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 2
London, On
A
ActionGirl Offline
Junior Member
ActionGirl  Offline
Junior Member
A

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 2
London, On
Hi everybody

I'm a piano tech student assigned to special duty. Our wonderful teacher brought back from NAMM for us an appetizing WNG sampler to play with. and we're sticking them in a Yamaha C3 when the real order comes in. Wippens, shanks and capstans.

I'm glad this thread has been started so that I may check in on the experienced among us.

So far we've had the trouble of figuring things out for ourselves....such as having to saw about 5 mm off of the aluminium rail to accomodate WNG's wippen design. But it looks like it's going to work great. In fact, it's starting to appear as though the reccomended "yamaha" parts from WNG will be better suited than the original.

We've actually been told we're to buy a special glue that will be shipped over with our order. We tried different glues but weren't satisfied. I see titebond works well? If that's true maybe we can save some money from this fancy glue.

Heating tongs! were applied around, but not touching, the shank. Nothing seemed to happen until it suddenly flopped right over, nearly bent in half and then popped right back up. It left some unattractive marks where it bent but otherwise good as new (except it hadn't done what we wanted it to).


We still don't have the parts. But i'm excited to get them and run into some juicy problems (being new to pianos both us and the WNG parts)

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Re: New composite action parts?? #615147
02/16/09 12:26 PM
02/16/09 12:26 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 2
London, On
A
ActionGirl Offline
Junior Member
ActionGirl  Offline
Junior Member
A

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 2
London, On
Quote
Originally posted by John Pels:
The WNG representative that I spoke with stated that they are being evaluated in various university settings. Is this something that any of you have had familiarity with? Any idea which universities?
John Pels, I suppose one of the university settings would be the University of Western Ontario with my shop partner and I under the watchful eye of our teachers (boss and coach). great place.

Re: New composite action parts?? #615148
02/16/09 11:10 PM
02/16/09 11:10 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,983
boston north
lilylady Offline
4000 Post Club Member
lilylady  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,983
boston north
A non-technician player weighing in.

I happened to see this topic highlighted and was also curious about the ad over to the right so thought I'd pop in here to read the thread.

I had heard about the new action at the MH tour last spring and was apprehensive. I feel comfortable with the old tried in true, in general.

After the tour PW members got a chance to play several prepped pianos in the hall upstairs. As I was busy socializing with others, I missed hearing which piano had the new action. So when a friend who is interested in purchasing beckoned me over to try out 'this' piano, and give her my opinion, I played it.

It sounded nice (to be expected). And, it felt good too, but ever so slightly different! I couldn't pinpoint as to why, as it was easy and comfortably controllable at the same time.

Yup, it was the new action!

I was impressed.

As were others who played it that day.


"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and life to everything."
Re: New composite action parts?? #615149
02/17/09 10:12 PM
02/17/09 10:12 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 788
Cincinnati, Ohio
R
RoyP Offline
500 Post Club Member
RoyP  Offline
500 Post Club Member
R

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 788
Cincinnati, Ohio
As a part-time university tech, I received an invitation a couple of months ago to try the parts. So far it hasn't worked out to do so. I assumed that the invitation was sent to all university technicians. I'll be trying them soon, one way or another.


Roy Peters, RPT
Cincinnati, Ohio
www.cincypiano.com
Re: New composite action parts?? [Re: RoyP] #1235405
07/22/09 12:21 PM
07/22/09 12:21 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 6
M
Mal7 Offline
Junior Member
Mal7  Offline
Junior Member
M

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 6
I have read all that I could find on the Wessell, Nickel & Gross composite action, even 4 patent applications. From all that study, it looks like the action is very nice and and theoretically superior.

I would like to know what the recent experience is with these action parts. I see above in this thread that there were many pianos being rebuilt using these parts. I was wondering if anyone could report on how any of those rebuilds turned out and if there were any issues.

Note: I also posted a similar request in the following thread: "Piano Forum ยป Carbon Fiber Actions in M&H?" I apologize if this is a duplicate post for anyone.

Thanks

Re: New composite action parts?? [Re: John Pels] #1626937
02/23/11 06:45 PM
02/23/11 06:45 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 65
O
oldiebutnewbie Offline
Full Member
oldiebutnewbie  Offline
Full Member
O

Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 65
Any additional observations or experience anyone would like to report on the WNG composite action? I'm really interested in these parts for an action overhaul on an 80+ year old small grand, and would like to match the WNG whippens, flanges, and shanks to some new Abel natural (medium pressing, unless there's a softer one) or Ronsen/Wurzen felt hammers.


Re: New composite action parts?? [Re: John Pels] #1627072
02/23/11 10:47 PM
02/23/11 10:47 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,945
Michigan
K
kpembrook Offline
Platinum Subscriber
kpembrook  Offline
Platinum Subscriber
K

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,945
Michigan
Originally Posted by John Pels
Has anyone noticed the new advertisement on PW for Wessel Nickel and Gross composite action parts. Does anyone have any familiarity with them? What sort of adhesive is used when hanging hammers on the composite shanks? There is evidently no pricing as yet, only a phone number.


I have used several sets and won't go back. A couple of university techs in our PTG chapter feel the same way.

As they explain on their website, wood was never regarded as the ideal material for actions -- just the best available for the price. Steinway engineers recognized the desirability of solid bushings but just weren't able to pull it off -- partly due to their own arrogance but also due to the fact that materials technology hadn't quite caught up to the design principles.

I like the WN&G carbon shanks-- they seem to provide less loss due to flex and correspondingly greater energy at the hammer strike. The solid bushing work reliably through humidity changes.

I also give high marks to WN&Gs cooperative and open attitude. As with any new product, there have been minor glitches or opportunities to improve discovered along the way. They have been quick to address issues and ideas.

Reports also seem to indicate that because of the elimination of the subtle movements of wooden parts that happen due to humidity fluctuation that actions in university settings are staying in regulation longer. I personally don't have enough intense usage like that to make any conclusion.

On a side note, an additional benefit of the hardened aluminum capstans now available from WN&G is almost no capstan contact felt wear after 20 years of usage by David Stanwood,RPT who first introduced them.



Keith Akins, RPT
Piano Technologist
USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings
Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair
Editor Emeritus, Piano Technicians Journal
Re: New composite action parts?? [Re: kpembrook] #1627156
02/24/11 02:15 AM
02/24/11 02:15 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,531
Olympia, Washington
D
Del Offline
5000 Post Club Member
Del  Offline
5000 Post Club Member
D

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,531
Olympia, Washington
Originally Posted by kpembrook
I like the WN&G carbon shanks-- they seem to provide less loss due to flex and correspondingly greater energy at the hammer strike. The solid bushing work reliably through humidity changes.

To add my observations about their reliability: WN&G made a two-note action model for my string testing device. This action model has been packed and shipped, bumped and abused and generally treated in ways no proper piano action should have to endure. It keeps right on working flawlessly; its regulation is stable and the composite shanks and plastic bushings have put up with side knocks that would have destroyed conventional wood/felt parts.

ddf


Delwin D Fandrich
Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant
ddfandrich@gmail.com
(To contact me privately please use this e-mail address.)

Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon
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