Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards Another "help me choose" thread

Hello all,

I'm new to digital pianos, actually totally new to any pianos for that matter. I've been reading for the past week trying to narrow down on what to buy and I think I am close to making a decision and would like to run past you guys/gals just to be sure.

Instead of hijacking someone else's "help me chose" thread I thought I should start a new one. So here it goes...

Background is that my 6yo daughter has recently started piano lessons, right now she's practicing on a basic keyboard from way back that I found in my folks' garage which is obviously no good, so we need to get her something pretty soon.

Our intention is to help her to develop a musical hobby, not so much on taking exams, however she will have our support if she eventually wants to get serious about it. I have already went through the motion of digital vs acoustic and have decided digital is the way to go at this stage.

By the way, everything costs more in Australia comparing to the States. Initially I was considering the Casio PX-730, which is around AU$900, probably the cheapest cabinet DP. But when I saw it in store it looks really basic and I don't want my daughter to think that she's playing on yet another keyboard, so I thought I should up the budget to get something better.

That led me to the AP-620, about AU$2,000. I have not seen it in person, but by reading this forum it appears to be a device with all the bells and whistles but not the best keyboard action or sound. Whenever someone asks about the AP-620, a few competing models such as the Yamaha CLP-330, Kawai CN33, and Roland HP-302 were suggested.

I have seen all 3 alternatives in store, not a piano player myself I cannot tell any differences in feel between them. So I can only compare base on specs, look, and price.

CLP-330 AU$2,500
CN33 AU$2,300
HP-302 AU$2,500

I was told the CLP-330 has been out for awhile, so it's not in the same league as the CN33 and HP-302, for that reason I took the Yamaha out of the equation. Between the CN33 and HP-302, the differences I can tell are (they are probably on par in terms of electronics):

CN33
+ Ivory touch keys (is this really a big deal?)
+ $200 cheaper
+ 3-year warranty (not 5-year like other countries)

HP-302
+ normal shiny keys (have to go to 305 for ivory touch, don't want to spend that much)
+ 5-year warranty
+ made in Japan (potentially means quality manufacturing)
+ 2-stage sliding cover (can cover up the buttons for more traditional look)
+ nicer chair (height adjustable with storage, obviously not a deal breaker)

Is there anything I have overlooked? Your valuable input is very much appreciated. If possible I would like to finalise the purchase within this week (something I should have done 3 weeks ago).

Cheers!

Hi there. I've had a 620 for a while, and am very happy with it. I think the ivory touch keys are well worth the extra $$. I've played Yamahas and Rolands and did not like the sound as well. The action is different on the various pianos, but I'm not sure which I really prefer. If you're going to be playing on mostly one piano you'll probably get used to whatever action you have and accomodate your playing to that. There is quite a difference among acoustic pianos, too.
It seems that a lot of people on this board either don't have or don't like the Casio Celvianos, and I'm not sure why that is.

I play tested a HP302 and a CN33. I purchased a CN33.

I also tested the HP305 and, well, purchased the CN33.

I also tested the HP307. Now at this level the sound and action was making me think hard about whether to get the CN33, until I saw the 307 price.

IMHO the cabinet build quality is better on the Kawai, the key action too and it's quieter, that leaves the question of the sound - the 307 speaker and amps do justice to the Roland SN sound, they do not on the 302/305. The Kawai sound is fine, not perfect or perhaps the best but just fine (for the price).

I've never tried the Kawai. But between the CLP330 and HP302, the Yamaha is the easy choice. Sounds much better.

The most important consideration is the touch or action. Since you are looking at consoles at or above $2000 you should make the decision based on which one has the best touch that suits you and your daughter. You can always connect to a computer to change the sound of the digital piano. If you don't need the fancy cabinet, you can consider the slab pianos and save some money. As for the Casio, you should play it before you rule it out based on what you have read here. If you cannot find a AP-620, the PX-330 is the same thing minus the cabinet, ivory touch keys, and higher wattage amp/speaker system. Casio isn't bad, but they aren't for everyone.

I actually would suggest that she stay with the portable keyboard for the time being. These are very convenient and fun to use. You can plop them down anywhere and play anytime you want. (In the US it is not uncommon for students to take several yrs. of classical lessons on one. They have little trouble playing the upright or grand in their teacher's studio.) With an 88-key weighted digital piano, she will then have to sit down in one place, on a bench, and play, and she'll then have to work to get the keys moving under her fingers, which will be toil and no longer much fun. When playing is no longer fun, that's when students drop out, and the dropout rate in piano is very high.

I figured at my daughter's level she's not going to be able to tell or appreciate the differences between the Casio, Yamaha, Kawai, or Roland (I limited my choices to mainstream brands in order not to be overwhelmed by the vast selection of DPs available on the market).

The AP-620 appeared to be a super value choice at first. But after learning that it retails for US$1,400 in the States but AU$2,200 over here (cheapest I've found is AU$2,000 online excluding delivery and I don't even know if they have stock), I feel ripped off by the local distributor for setting the high price, I don't know what I'm paying the extra AU$800 for. AU dollar has been trading for 90+ US cents for a long time and recently hit parity, they can't use exchange rate and supply contract as an excuse.

I found price vs features is a major selling point of the AP-620 in the States and hence the good write-ups. If it was priced at US$2,200 I think no one would touch it, after all Casio is well known for watches and calculators (sorry Casio DP owners, I'm just frustrated at their high prices here in Australia). Based on that I have dropped the AP-620 from the list.

On the other hand, the CN33 and HP-302 are more on par with worldwide pricing, and hence I don't feel like paying for air. Prices quote were delivered and fully assembled which are more reasonable.

May be I should start learning piano as well so that the DP is utilised by more than one person and don't feel as costly.

The dollar exchange rate might not have anything to do with the price disparity. It's the manufacturer's currency that counts. (I presume the JPY yen.)

The US dollar is falling against most other currencies. But perhaps the AU dollar is falling more against the yen than the dollar is?

Even if that's not the case ... marketing dictates that the seller will set a price that the market will bear. The AU market is likely different from the US market.

Get the best sound and keys you can in your price range. I'd pay extra attention to sympathetic resonance, as this is a lot of what a real piano is all about IMO. Roland & Kawai do this pretty well, Yamaha not so much, Casio barely if at all.

Do you have your heart set on a console type DP, or would a slab be OK? Have you looked at the Roland FP-7F? The internal speakers aren't the best, but they are better than nothing, and you can supplement / substitute them with an inexpensive stereo setup later if you find yourself using them a lot. Add a nice $100 stand and you'll be in business.

Buy a good (~$100 maybe AKG K-240) pair of headphones so you can get the most from the sound you paid for, and so you and your kid can practice without bothering others.

So far I am leaning towards the HP-302, but also wondering about the significance of ivory touch keys because they are missing from the HP-302. Should ivory touch be viewed as a deciding factor?

dpuser, one of the criticisms that consumers often made about previous generation Kawai digital pianos was the plastic-y look and feel of the keyboard. This is no longer an issue with modern Kawai instruments that use the latest 'RH' or 'RM3 Grand' keyboard actions and feature 'Ivory Touch' key surfaces. A lot of folks dismiss this point when reading the product brochures, but are pleasantly surprised when they eventually see/feel it in the dealer's showroom.

I'm a little curious as to why you're leaning towards the Roland. Is it just the longer warranty and 'Made in Japan'-factor, or are there other aspect about the instrument (sound, keyboard touch) that you prefer?

Regardless, any digital piano with weighted keys will be an improvement on an old keyboard, and I believe your daughter (and yourself, if you decided to learn the piano) will be very happy with either the HP-302 or CN33.

Kind regards,
James
x

ya im not sure what it is but I didn't like the feel of the 302's keys. They were noticeably slippy. I mean when I can hear my finger squeak like a squeegee, it's kinda a put off.

The 305 was better but as already pointed out, would you pay all that extra cash for just the feel? Maybe if I could pay 800 and have them put kawai's keys on a roland then ya id blow an extra 6 or 8 hundred.

Plus im not sure how accurate it is, but I heard the ivory stuff comes off the keys after awhile for the hp 305. Not sure if it was true or not but thad be a hellofa deciding factor for me.

The CN is nice, but I found the CA51 to be better. I just liked the touch and the control over the sound. But it's all up to those nerves in your fingertips.

Thanks for the info, it's good to have someone in the know to respond to a question. I randomly pressed some keys on both CN33 and HP-302 and listened to the sounds, frankly I can't tell one is better than the other. May be you have to be a player in order to appreciate their characteristics, beginners get accustomed to whatever they buy.

After lots of reading online, I concluded that I can’t really go wrong with either model. Then it comes to personal perceptions. Kawai has a long history of making acoustic pianos but I somehow think that they are relatively new to DP, as oppose to Roland who has been making DP from day one. However, the opposite can be said, Kawai knows know real pianos sound and feel, whereas Roland has always been artificial.

Another consideration is that why the same CN33 gets 5-year warranty elsewhere but only 3-year in AU? Do we receive second rate products that do not last beyond 3 years? I know this is determined by the importer/distributor because they are wearing the support cost, but still, 2 years is a long time.

If not because of the ivory touch keys, I would probably have put a deposit on the HP-302 already. It is a tough choice because the ivory touch sounds like a good thing to have.

Hello all again, I just came back from the music store, after spending half an hour comparing the CN33 and HP-302 side by side I was as clueless as when I first walked in.

In turns of sounds, I found the HP-302 produces more crisp sound and also quite loud, which is strange because it has smaller and less powerful speakers than the CN33.

In turns of keys, HP-302 feels firm and bouncy, CN33 feels soft and mushy. The CN33 has synthetic ivory surface so it does feel nicer to touch or may be it's in the mind.

There are $20,000 grand pianos in the store without ivory keys, so I have doubts in the practically of ivory surface found on DP keys.

Still in a dilemma.

Why don't you ask your daughter to try them out to see which she prefers, as she will be the one playing? She will likely choose the one with the closest action and touch to her teacher's piano. Children can be more sensitive to these things than adults appreciate. DPs vary a lot in their key actions and perceived key weight (which may not be the same as the actual key weight), just as acoustic pianos do.

When I went through the process of buying my own DP last year, I was a complete novice to digitals but had long experience of acoustics of all sorts, from honky-tonks with broken strings to new concert grands. My priority was an instrument that I could live with for (possibly) the rest of my life, and which gave me the best 'feel', responsiveness and dynamic range as is possible from a DP; and I didn't want to pay for any bells and whistles, as I have no interest whatsoever in electronic gimickry that has nothing to do with (classical) piano playing. I ended up buying a DP (Roland V-Piano) that was outside my original budget, but I've not regretted it since.

But as you're buying for your daughter, she might like to have gizmos to play with, and only she can tell you which are important to her. And is she being taught classical piano or pop-based piano? Maybe her teacher can give you some input, if you can get him/her to come to the store and try out the DPs you have in mind.

I actually though about bring my daughter to try out the DPs at the store, however, I don't think she knows what she wants. If there's a DP in pink, that's the one she'll get.

dpuser,
Have you considered a slab piano to save some cash. It's possible your daughter at some point might decide piano isn't for her. There's a pretty high drop out rate as it can be a hard instrument to learn. It takes a level of dedication and conviction for one to stay with particularly as she gets older and no longer takes lessons to please Mom and Dad. You are looking at some pretty expensive instruments for a beginner. There's nothing wrong with that but like they say hindsight is always 50/50.

Hi dpuser,

I've played the acoustic a lot until I was about 22, then I played it on and off.
About 1.5 years ago I bought the Yamaha CLP370, which has the same action (GH3) as the CLP330. Also it has synthetic ivory key tops.

I can say the following about it: although it's a lovely DP, the action is very light compared to a real acoustic. This may sound weird, but I also tried the CLP320, and although it has a cheaper mechanism (GH), it's heavier and because of that more similar to an acoustic to me. I really notice when I play the acoustic in my parent's place that it's heavy exercise to get used to it again - I do have to admit though that the action of my parent's acoustic is quite heavy. But it's better to learn to play the piano on an instrument with heavy action than on an instrument with very light action.

As to the synthetic keys: it's nice, can be useful, but it's a luxury. I played the piano for many years and it had regular key-tops. Years ago, only fancy grand-pianos had actual ivory keytops, all other pianos had regular keytops. They're only annoying when you're so nervous when playing for people for example, that your fingers get sweaty. That's when it becomes slippery.

Ok, this is just my 5p. I guess in the end you can't go wrong regardless if you buy the 320 or 330. The 330 does have a nicer sample, and of course some extra features.

Oh btw sorry I didn't say anything about the other brands, but I have little or no experience with them :-) Possibly they're good options too.

Good luck making a choice.

No worries, I welcome any feedback! I wish I can play a piano and at least can feel the differences between various models. Lack of technical and practical knowledges, I can only look at spec sheets. As already been pointed out, all DP over $2,000 mark should play nicely, at least for beginners.

By the way, I found a CASIO AP-420 at another shop the other day, they don't stock the AP-620 but can order it in, I was told that's because most people do not want the extra functions on the 620 and rather save some money on the 420 which is on sale for AU$1,350. They can do AU$2,000 on the 620 but interestingly they highly recommended the Kawai CN33 for AU$2,250 instead.

That pretty much concludes no one should paid AU$2,000 for a CASIO, even the sales guy agrees.

Having the AP-420 literally side by side to the CN33, the keys on the AP-420 are very loose, as in there are lots of play in them, I think the AP-620 would share the same problem.

Casio Sound Technology Australia should really learn from other companies to bring the price in line with world pricing. But I guess they don't care, their strategy is to sale truck loads of low end crap to make up for their lost in higher end models.