Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Teachers Forum Two conflicting techniques?

As usual your argument dissolves into 'cheap insults' dressed up as advice. Spare me the objective tag, as always you're hearing what you want to hear. Since when am I the OP? - do everyone in this thread a favour and keep your insults to yourself.

KBK,
Please refrain from taking things personally. I watched the video you posted and enjoyed it quite a bit. From my perspective-it seems you use quite good technique for this style of repertoire-although I would be interested to hear how well you are able to control the sound on a real piano, with its massive hammers and great depth.

Thank you for posting the video. I encourage you in future to continually add more 'performance' style videos to your growing collection of pedagogical ones.

I understand what you consider to be the differences in technique appropriate for Bach compared to Chopin-you use more of the 'scratch' stroke throughout the former, with more of the 'flick' stroke in the latter (oversimplification, I know, but I'm not a fan of those terms).

The point I would like to make is that im MY experience this 'baroque-style' technique shows up, along with some supplemental souplesse-type-stuff, a great deal in Chopin.
The lines between what works for what are not always clearly drawn and may very from student to student.

Watch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVBCo6bbQwo&feature=related

from 19 seconds to about 40 seconds, I think it is quite clear to see that it is the FINGERS that do the work in this challenging little movement. The arm brings the hand to the right place on the keyboard, and the hand requires great stability for the fingers to be able to do the work well.

To me, this looks quite similar, technically, to the technique which you have shown in your video.

If only it were that simple - it's what happens on the inside (invisible) that defines a touch.

You can't expect to accuse all pianists of "not knowing" how to move in this etude, and then expect nobody to make sincere criticisms of a very slow tempo demonstration with uneveness and errors.

What do you think would happen if you played that work in a masterclass? Would you have a go at the teacher for insulting you? Would you say "no- this is Chopin's technique and I'm doing it correctly"? If so, they would certainly not hold back about telling you that it is not producing adequate results. To claim that anyone is hearing what they want to is simply ridiculous. I've taught students at diploma level and I don't "want to" hear such things as uneveness of fingerwork. However, it's my job to point such things out in even the more advanced level players- whenever it is audible. Perhaps you've never played in public masterclasses, but I don't think you understand what standards are expected at advanced level.

I'm sure it's far easier to paint anyone who has higher standards of excellence than yourself as a wicked aggressor than to take it on the chin. But if I wanted to be insulting I would have used altogether different language. Obviously you're willing to view that as an acceptable standard, but others of us are not. Can we please leave it at that?

An insult in any 'language', is just that - an insult. That your lack of knowledge and understanding of piano playing always leads you to attacks ad hominem, that you're unable to 'play the ball', is disappointing to say the least. I think we'll leave it at that.

I'm sorry if you take it that way- but as I already said, it's an honestly stated appraisal. If any of my student played an Etude to me with that kind of uneveness, I should be deeply concerned. Sorry if you choose to be insulted by my professional opinion, but when you present something as advice to others, you cannot expect it to be deemed off-limits for appraisal. In doing so, you make your playing and demonstration part of the topic.

Accusing me of a lack of knowledge certainly IS an ad hominem (and arguably libellous to myself, as a professional teacher). Can you please just accept that you are not beyond criticism and move on- rather than respond with personal insults and libel? I've had enough of having to state the different between honest assessment and personal insults- and I am not going to join in with any of the latter.

I would say a piano teacher who can't tell Mozart from Schubert (not even to mention not knowing their piano works!) certainly is in no place to give opinions on my playing however 'professional' they may think they are. Remember, anyone can hang out a shingle! Sue and be damned! Now can we move on?

I have been attempting to over a number of posts. Would you like to stop libelling me and do so? As I've said repeatedly, I am sorry if you feel offended by honest appraisal. If you're going to respond to that by bringing my professional capabilities into question then I take that very seriously.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on just how honest your appraisals are or for that matter the sincerity of your apologies (I'm an innercity school teacher - do you want to know how many times a day I hear the word sorry?). Now let's move on.

Unless you have psychic powers, you are in no position to judge how honest my appraisals are or whether I apply the same standards in general. Please stop making personal accusations against myself and my honesty (note that I have only referred to your demonstrations and will not be joining in with anything personal, never mind libellous) and just accept that your personal idea of what is satisfactory execution is not shared by all.

What accusations? Since when in life are we obliged to accept a person's sincerity? You have a lot to learn (as do my kids at school).

This accusation:

"We'll just have to agree to disagree on just how honest your appraisals are"

ie. the one that specifically questions my honesty. You can say whatever you like in your next post. I will not reply this time. I am not going to waste any more of time responding to these wholly personal accusations and libellous allegations against me. I am interested in the study of technique (with regard to what leads to advanced standards of attainment- starting with my own playing), not in pointless off-topic argument. If you want to respond to my honest opinion with a string of personal attacks, I'll leave you to it.

You really don't get it do you? - just like my kids at school. Respect, belief, is something earned not a right. IMHO you've been crying wolf for years.