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I didn't say I prefered Tiempo to Argerich or Horowitz full stop, I said I prefered his tchaikovsky octaves.

I've seen a number of students accomplish the octave glissandi in the Waldstein perfectly well, its difficult but not impossible.

.....In my opinion however, Argerich's breadth of repertoire, particularly in chamber music, offers substantial support for superlative musicianship.....

Horowitz was not at his best in 1983. In fact, I think that was probably the rock bottom for him. He was heavily medicated and was prone to memory lapses.

...one of the most impressive things I ever came across about Horowitz's "musicianship" was his performance of the Dichterliebe with Fischer-Dieskau in the mid-'70's at a big celebration where numerous greats performed. It floored me, not because I would have doubted that he had the "musicianship" to do the music and the collaboration so well, while fully still being 'Horowitz,' but because (I assumed) he was so "out of practice" on 'accompanying' for lieder (like maybe 50 years worth), plus that his "personality" might have gotten in the way of it. And it didn't; it enhanced it.

I think the people who've uploaded Horowitz's 1983 performances to YouTube should be rounded up and shot. To anthologize and present a pianist's worst performances for all the world to see shows a lack of respect and decency, and does nothing to promote the arts or the artist.

I think the people who've uploaded Horowitz's 1983 performances to YouTube should be rounded up and shot. To anthologize and present a pianist's worst performances for all the world to see shows a lack of respect and decency, and does nothing to promote the arts or the artist.

Sometimes I worry about the state of our culture. We seem to think we deserve to have access to everyone's worst moments, and we turn everything into a reality show. (Like this thread, for example. It started out as a discussion of Horowitz's octave technique, and it quickly became one of those phony television contests: Who's octaves are best? Who gets voted off OctaveSurvivor this week? Only Argerich and Horowitz remain, who will win?" In the real world of people who haven't lost their brain cells to television, there is no such contest. We get to enjoy both pianists.

That's maybe as good an example as could be imagined for what I said about "musicianship" being subjective to an extent that people could not even agree on what's involved in it. IMO what you said has nothing whatsoever to do with their musicianship.

"Musicianship" to me is an inner quality, actually a set of inner qualities, that are manifested in one's playing. Unless one plays extremely little stuff or not enough of a range to show those qualities, the amount and types of repertoire that he/she plays have no bearing.

And as long as we're on the subject of collaborative repertoire, one of the most impressive things I ever came across about Horowitz's "musicianship" was his performance of the Dichterliebe with Fischer-Dieskau in the mid-'70's at a big celebration where numerous greats performed. It floored me, not because I would have doubted that he had the "musicianship" to do the music and the collaboration so well, while fully still being 'Horowitz,' but because (I assumed) he was so "out of practice" on 'accompanying' for lieder (like maybe 50 years worth), plus that his "personality" might have gotten in the way of it. And it didn't; it enhanced it.

Calm down.