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RD700NX Versus CP5 #1615401
02/08/11 03:49 PM
02/08/11 03:49 PM
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rickshapiro Offline OP
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So, through some negotiation I've been able to get the price on an RD700NX and a CP5 into my price range. I have not found a dealer in my area that has an RD700NX to try but I have tried the CP5 and liked it. I'm looking for some opinions from others that were in my situation trying to decide between the two? I'm quite familiar with the feature and operational differences between them so I'm looking for, admittedly, subjective feedback on what made you decide between the two; was it feel, sound, connection, usability, history etcetera.

Just to put thing into context, I play jazz in electronic combo, I play classical for pleasure and play coffee houses with a singer doing pop tunes. I also do some recording for others. I only play out a few times a month. I currently own an Motif ES7 and a number of older synths.

Thanks for your time and help,

Rick


Music Hack

Nord NP88,Yamaha Motif ES7, Ensoniq KS32, Brodmann 187 Grand, JV2080, GR20, JV90, MKS-20, Sonar S1, Reaper, ACID, Record/Reason, Samplitude, VOX Tonelab, Tech21 Power Engine, NI, Kore, True Piano, Sampletank, Komplete, Bluesky Studio Monitors Yamaha 01X, Line 6 HD500, tons of guitars.
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Re: RD700NX Versus CP5 [Re: rickshapiro] #1615429
02/08/11 04:41 PM
02/08/11 04:41 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,524
Nashville, Tennessee
PianoZac Offline
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Hey Rick,

My experience with both Yamaha and Roland keyboards in live setting playing jazz was that the Yamaha's sounded much better live, while the Roland (I owned the RD-700GXF which is nearly identical sound wise to the RD-700NX) sounded much better at home with headphones. I've played the CP5, and liked it, but never live. For your circumstances, I'd say go with the CP5. It seems Roland is also experiencing the same key wear issues on their Ivory Feel keys, namely on the RD-700NXs and HP-307s. Not sure if that'd be a deal breaker for you. Honestly, both boards are fantastic, but I just feel you'd probably be happier with the CP5 live. Dave Ferris, Aiden, and Dave Horne all own CP5s and play live. You may want to message them.


Kawai MP7SE
Re: RD700NX Versus CP5 [Re: PianoZac] #1615430
02/08/11 04:45 PM
02/08/11 04:45 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 171
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rickshapiro Offline OP
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Originally Posted by PianoZac
Hey Rick,

My experience with both Yamaha and Roland keyboards in live setting playing jazz was that the Yamaha's sounded much better live, while the Roland (I owned the RD-700GXF which is nearly identical sound wise to the RD-700NX) sounded much better at home with headphones. I've played the CP5, and liked it, but never live. For your circumstances, I'd say go with the CP5. It seems Roland is also experiencing the same key wear issues on their Ivory Feel keys, namely on the RD-700NXs and HP-307s. Not sure if that'd be a deal breaker for you. Honestly, both boards are fantastic, but I just feel you'd probably be happier with the CP5 live. Dave Ferris, Aiden, and Dave Horne all own CP5s and play live. You may want to message them.


Thanks for the quick reply. Also, from a fatigue perspective my understanding is the "lighter" feel of the CP5 is perhaps better then the CP50 and RD700, is that your experience?


Music Hack

Nord NP88,Yamaha Motif ES7, Ensoniq KS32, Brodmann 187 Grand, JV2080, GR20, JV90, MKS-20, Sonar S1, Reaper, ACID, Record/Reason, Samplitude, VOX Tonelab, Tech21 Power Engine, NI, Kore, True Piano, Sampletank, Komplete, Bluesky Studio Monitors Yamaha 01X, Line 6 HD500, tons of guitars.
Re: RD700NX Versus CP5 [Re: rickshapiro] #1615663
02/08/11 10:19 PM
02/08/11 10:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,722
Hancock Park LA (not again)
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Dr Popper Offline
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I have a CP1 I'm very happy with for live work. The CP1/5's touch and action is one of the best out there for feel and touch.
The RD700NX has technically better acoustic piano sounds (that don't sound better live) and technically better action (that doesn't feel better live).

I think its a matter of purely personal preference with the choice between these two.

The Roland is technically better ...the Yamaha has the "Vibe"


"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally associated with Arturia but my sentiments are my own only.
Re: RD700NX Versus CP5 [Re: Dr Popper] #1615770
02/09/11 12:32 AM
02/09/11 12:32 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,111
Glendale, Ca.
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Dave Ferris Offline
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.


https://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D
Yamaha CP4, CP5, RCF TT08A speakers
Re: RD700NX Versus CP5 [Re: rickshapiro] #1615904
02/09/11 07:06 AM
02/09/11 07:06 AM
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FredFabulous Offline
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Originally Posted by rickshapiro

Thanks for the quick reply. Also, from a fatigue perspective my understanding is the "lighter" feel of the CP5 is perhaps better then the CP50 and RD700, is that your experience?


IMO heavy keys are not an issue. You usually practice longer than a show anyway don't you? All acoustic grand pianos I've played (on or off) stage have all had much, and I mean much, heavier keys than any DP I've come across, ever. There is also much more difference between the heavier keys and the lighter keys on the grands. Maybe I have delicate touch or something but I feel DP's offer "resistance" whereas the grands are rather "heavy" instead. The Kawai RM3 was "heavy" style keys but then again much lighter touch than on the acoustic.

I've owned the CP5 and agree to all it has a tendency to "cut through" better live because there is probably more ping/ring/formants in the sound register. It also has a lot of expressiveness to it like most Yamaha acoustics which seems to be of use for Jazz players who bounce around a lot (just another impression of mine, don't take it too seriously!).

I now own the RD-700NX and I totally love it. Initially I was afraid of the piano being buried in the soundwaves but it is not an issue. The trick is to not be afraid of a little eq or choosing another piano setting other than what you use at home with headphones. Up the volume and it rings just as the CP5 did, but with more pleasant piano sound.

For me personally the CP5 got overrun by the NX. CP5 has the same type of sound I'd get from a Nord Piano/Stage, which in turn is lighter and and 'cuts through' even better than the CP5. They are ALL good but for me personally the NX is just right.

The only downside of the NX is the size. Haven't found a gigbag yet but I know there must be some out there.

Cheers
Fred


RD-700NX (25 nov 2010)
Re: RD700NX Versus CP5 [Re: FredFabulous] #1616047
02/09/11 11:52 AM
02/09/11 11:52 AM
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rickshapiro Offline OP
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Originally Posted by FredFabulous
Originally Posted by rickshapiro

Thanks for the quick reply. Also, from a fatigue perspective my understanding is the "lighter" feel of the CP5 is perhaps better then the CP50 and RD700, is that your experience?


IMO heavy keys are not an issue. You usually practice longer than a show anyway don't you? All acoustic grand pianos I've played (on or off) stage have all had much, and I mean much, heavier keys than any DP I've come across, ever. There is also much more difference between the heavier keys and the lighter keys on the grands. Maybe I have delicate touch or something but I feel DP's offer "resistance" whereas the grands are rather "heavy" instead. The Kawai RM3 was "heavy" style keys but then again much lighter touch than on the acoustic.

I've owned the CP5 and agree to all it has a tendency to "cut through" better live because there is probably more ping/ring/formants in the sound register. It also has a lot of expressiveness to it like most Yamaha acoustics which seems to be of use for Jazz players who bounce around a lot (just another impression of mine, don't take it too seriously!).

I now own the RD-700NX and I totally love it. Initially I was afraid of the piano being buried in the soundwaves but it is not an issue. The trick is to not be afraid of a little eq or choosing another piano setting other than what you use at home with headphones. Up the volume and it rings just as the CP5 did, but with more pleasant piano sound.

For me personally the CP5 got overrun by the NX. CP5 has the same type of sound I'd get from a Nord Piano/Stage, which in turn is lighter and and 'cuts through' even better than the CP5. They are ALL good but for me personally the NX is just right.

The only downside of the NX is the size. Haven't found a gigbag yet but I know there must be some out there.

Cheers
Fred


The reason I bring this up is that I intend to use this piano for a substantial amount of my practicing and I have challenges with hand pain. Also I practice quite a bit of night and my grand is crazy loud.

Thanks,

Rick


Music Hack

Nord NP88,Yamaha Motif ES7, Ensoniq KS32, Brodmann 187 Grand, JV2080, GR20, JV90, MKS-20, Sonar S1, Reaper, ACID, Record/Reason, Samplitude, VOX Tonelab, Tech21 Power Engine, NI, Kore, True Piano, Sampletank, Komplete, Bluesky Studio Monitors Yamaha 01X, Line 6 HD500, tons of guitars.
Re: RD700NX Versus CP5 [Re: rickshapiro] #1616053
02/09/11 12:05 PM
02/09/11 12:05 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 31
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Hemppa Offline
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Hand pain being a issue for you, I'd recommend testing Roland action before buying it. I found the action to bottom hard, which can can cause increased pain in hand after playing for long periods. Some other actions I tried felt -a lot- softer when bottoming.

Re: RD700NX Versus CP5 [Re: Hemppa] #1616055
02/09/11 12:08 PM
02/09/11 12:08 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 171
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rickshapiro Offline OP
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rickshapiro  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Hemppa
Hand pain being a issue for you, I'd recommend testing Roland action before buying it. I found the action to bottom hard, which can can cause increased pain in hand after playing for long periods. Some other actions I tried felt -a lot- softer when bottoming.


That is why perhaps the CP5 may be a better fit. I've heard it is a "lighter" action.


Music Hack

Nord NP88,Yamaha Motif ES7, Ensoniq KS32, Brodmann 187 Grand, JV2080, GR20, JV90, MKS-20, Sonar S1, Reaper, ACID, Record/Reason, Samplitude, VOX Tonelab, Tech21 Power Engine, NI, Kore, True Piano, Sampletank, Komplete, Bluesky Studio Monitors Yamaha 01X, Line 6 HD500, tons of guitars.
Re: RD700NX Versus CP5 [Re: Hemppa] #1616066
02/09/11 12:26 PM
02/09/11 12:26 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
dewster Offline
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dewster  Offline
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Northern NJ
Originally Posted by FredFabulous
The only downside of the NX is the size.

And weight. 55lbs (naked, before putting it in a case) is a lot for the average person to schlep. If I'd known the 300NX was coming down the pike I might have held off for weight reasons alone. But the 300NX action is a complete unknown at this point.

Originally Posted by Hemppa
Hand pain being a issue for you, I'd recommend testing Roland action before buying it. I found the action to bottom hard, which can can cause increased pain in hand after playing for long periods.

I've tried older Roland actions and experienced this. Our 700NX doesn't bottom out particularly hard IMO. But, yes, do try any action before you buy as feel (and sound) seems to be a very personal taste kind of thing.

Re: RD700NX Versus CP5 [Re: dewster] #1616126
02/09/11 01:46 PM
02/09/11 01:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 380
UK
Aidan Offline
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Aidan  Offline
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UK
I occasionally suffered some hand pain when I had the RD700GX and had played a great deal over successive days. Not had that problem with the CP5. The Rolands probably record slightly better than the Yamaha but live I find the CP5's sound more natural in more acoustic spaces than the RD, which always felt a bit of a fight to EQ especially in very reflective spaces - sounding quite "hard" on the ear.

Case wise, from experience I can tell you that the Gator GK88 large fits either of these pianos. Yes, weight is a bit of an issue but it's an acceptable wheel in, and if the loading platform of the back of your car is completely flat, you can use the vehicle as a "pivot" to load the piano in without too much effort.


Live: Casio PX-5S | Hammond SK1
Studio: Yamaha CP4 | Hammond SK2 | Kurzweil PC361 | Moog Sub 37
Re: RD700NX Versus CP5 [Re: dewster] #1616129
02/09/11 01:50 PM
02/09/11 01:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 89
Belgium
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octurn Offline
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Belgium
I bought a CP5 and use it for practicing and performing. Before buying it I tried all the comparable models thoroughly (and more than once). The CP5 was soundwise and actionwise the model that most fitted my needs and my personal taste.

So there's really only one advice to give:

Try, Try, Try (slightly adjusted Johnny Cash song wink )

And after making your choice, don't look back on it, these are both great digital instruments.





For the pleasure of playing: Kemble Conservatoire
For practicing and gigging:Yamaha CP5

My (almost blank) youtube channel
Re: RD700NX Versus CP5 [Re: octurn] #1616202
02/09/11 03:10 PM
02/09/11 03:10 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 246
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moleskincrusher Offline
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The "Rock Piano" patch of the FP-7F (I don't know what that patch on an NX would be, but I'm sure they're there) cuts thru fine in jazz and light-rock ensembles, IMO. Even on ballads.

I EQ my FBT p.a. speakers correspondingly, depending on the venue.

BTW, I am mostly a lurker, but I greatly admire and respect the posters on the DP threads of the Forum.

Esp. delighted with dewster's use of the royal/editorial "we".

Re: RD700NX Versus CP5 [Re: moleskincrusher] #1616282
02/09/11 05:23 PM
02/09/11 05:23 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
dewster Offline
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Originally Posted by moleskincrusher
Esp. delighted with dewster's use of the royal/editorial "we".

It's a real we. smile My wife teaches private piano, so she and her students are the primary users of the DP in our studio.

Re: RD700NX Versus CP5 [Re: dewster] #1616614
02/10/11 02:07 AM
02/10/11 02:07 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
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cfishy Offline
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So glad to see this thread. I was almost all set to buy the 700NX to replace my Casio cdp100 mainly because the Casio's keys are too heavy. The baby grand that I have access to are much lighter than the Casio and my hands hurt.

Question: What is the difference between 700 and 300 in general? I can only tell that the 300 has less output, weighs less, and has fewer sound patches. I only need bright and warm piano, so it wouldn't be an issue for me.

Also: On youtube, many people are showing the Roland RD-700NX having "stealing effect" and some sort of drop offs. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNNGiJjPEI4

Is this a known problem? Does it affect all Roland's latest DPs?

Re: RD700NX Versus CP5 [Re: rickshapiro] #1616655
02/10/11 04:59 AM
02/10/11 04:59 AM
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UK
Aidan Offline
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UK
I think at least one NX owner has posted somewhere that Roland is aware of the problem and promising a solution via an OS upgrade. What I haven't seen is it confirmed officially anywhere by Roland.

To be fair to Roland, the phenomenon demonstrated in the video seemed to happen only either under conditions unlikely to occur in real playing situations or when combining an MP3 backing track with intensive live performance (again, unlikely in real life as performing against a backing track I'd expect to play more sparingly anyway).

Having said that, both of these scenarios I've seen demonstrated would seem to point to processor limitations rather than badly-written onboard software, so that would seem to place at least a modest question mark over whether such things could be cured with an OS update.


Live: Casio PX-5S | Hammond SK1
Studio: Yamaha CP4 | Hammond SK2 | Kurzweil PC361 | Moog Sub 37
Re: RD700NX Versus CP5 [Re: Aidan] #1616927
02/10/11 02:42 PM
02/10/11 02:42 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,524
Nashville, Tennessee
PianoZac Offline
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Nashville, Tennessee
Originally Posted by Aidan


Having said that, both of these scenarios I've seen demonstrated would seem to point to processor limitations rather than badly-written onboard software, so that would seem to place at least a modest question mark over whether such things could be cured with an OS update.


I spoke to a tech at Roland and he pretty much confirmed what you said. I was talking to him about the really weird cut off on my RD-700GXF, and he said that the processor was totally bogged down adding the SN upgrade. He said because the SN upgrade just pushes aside (in other words) the built in RD-700GX processor, it severely cut down processor power. So I asked him about the RD-700NX processor, and he said it was the same processor, but all SN. I told him that folks had been complaining about the RD-700NX, and he shrugged it off, said he'd seen some of the videos, and that they were playing in an unrealistic manner. Well maybe so, but the fact that there are several people frustrated with this problem shouldn't really be overlooked. Doesn't matter if everyone who bought an NX plays in an unrealistic manner, if your customers are unhappy, they're unhappy. Not to mention, this DID NOT occur with the un-upgraded RD-700GX. Like clockwork, I'd switch over from my SN pianos to non-SN and it wouldn't do that. I remember layering two SN pianos...not a good idea. But I could layer two non-SN pianos and be fine.

The other problem to me is that, while playing a bunch of DPs before I went for the NP88, I played thick comp chords in an abrupt manner, just as I had on my RD-700GXF. I did this on the RD-700NX, V-Piano, CP1/5/50, Korg SV-1 88, Nord Piano, RD-300GX, and guess what, only the RD-700GXF and RD-700NX did this. It's an inherent problem I think with the RD-700 processor. I've not seen any other issues like this with SN instruments-not the FP-7F, HP-307, V-Piano, etc.

It probably isn't a deal breaker, and it wasn't an issue for me most of the time, but it's a bug that ought to be addressed.

Last edited by PianoZac; 02/10/11 02:49 PM.

Kawai MP7SE
Re: RD700NX Versus CP5 [Re: rickshapiro] #1616971
02/10/11 03:33 PM
02/10/11 03:33 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 137
Italy&Orange County, CA
Suryaman Offline
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Thanks for sharing this info PianoZac, really interesting.

Re: RD700NX Versus CP5 [Re: Aidan] #1617028
02/10/11 04:42 PM
02/10/11 04:42 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
dewster Offline
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Originally Posted by Aidan
To be fair to Roland, the phenomenon demonstrated in the video seemed to happen only either under conditions unlikely to occur in real playing situations or when combining an MP3 backing track with intensive live performance (again, unlikely in real life as performing against a backing track I'd expect to play more sparingly anyway).

I just went upstairs and checked this out on our 700NX again. I can get the note cut-off thing to happen with only three notes and no pedal when playing back an MP3. I have to play all three notes simultaneously and lift them simultaneously, and I have to do this repeatedly and very quickly. It seems to take 5 notes to produce it when playing back a WAV file.

Originally Posted by Aidan
Having said that, both of these scenarios I've seen demonstrated would seem to point to processor limitations rather than badly-written onboard software, so that would seem to place at least a modest question mark over whether such things could be cured with an OS update.

I'm speculating, but this seems to be an underpowered processor saddled with poorly optimized software. That, or it's a bug in the priority encoder of their note stealing algorithm. The cut-off happens at note-off though, which is kind of strange.

I must say, the main piano voice sounds quite nice, as does the pedal sympathetic resonance.

Re: RD700NX Versus CP5 [Re: rickshapiro] #1617293
02/11/11 12:16 AM
02/11/11 12:16 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,722
Hancock Park LA (not again)
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Dr Popper Offline
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Hancock Park LA (not again)
I wonder what this cut off issue actually is and when its going to be fixed.
IMHO it stains a otherwise clean board.


"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally associated with Arturia but my sentiments are my own only.
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