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#1616541 - 02/09/11 10:27 PM Re: The King's Speech [Re: Ejay]  
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Originally Posted by Ejay
Originally Posted by btb

Longest reigning British Monarch at 57 years , outdistancing Queens Victoria and Elizabeth I.



That is interesting as Britain has never had a Queen Elizabeth the first.


Indeed, though she was "Queen of France". Well, according to the English of course. It was George III who finally abandoned pretensions to the French throne ... ah, so now I know what argerichfan means with "we know about that one". wink


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#1616624 - 02/10/11 01:56 AM Re: The King's Speech [Re: loveschopintoomuch]  
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King George VI giving the Royal-wave at the end of WWII in 1945 from the balcony of Buckingham Palace ... with him the Queen and a beaming Winston Churchill ... left is Princess Elisabeth (future QEII) and to the right her younger sister Princess Margaret.
[Linked Image]

PS I’m presently glued to Lord Moran’s book Winston Churchill: The Struggle for Survival (864 pages) ...Physician to the PM from May 1940 ... as he notes in opening

“Winston Churchill is 65. He has just been appointed Prime Minister, and I have become his doctor, not because he wanted one, but because certain members of the Cabinet, who realized how essential he had become, have decided that somebody ought to keep an eye on his health.”

PPS Spike Milligan’s book “Adolf Hitler: My Part in His Downfall” will just have to wait.

#1616703 - 02/10/11 07:49 AM Re: The King's Speech [Re: loveschopintoomuch]  
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I haven't seen "The King's Speech," and probably won't, as it appears from all the buzz to be a pop-historical film of the sort that encourages deficient people to idolize the talentless and unproductive; a phenomenon even worse than idolizing certain celebrities for no reason other than they are celebrities.

Having disqualified myself from commenting further, I nevertheless will: the irony of using Beethoven's music seems fitting, given the irony of the British royal family being German.

Tomasino




"Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do so with all thy might." Ecclesiastes 9:10

#1616743 - 02/10/11 09:19 AM Re: The King's Speech [Re: loveschopintoomuch]  
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Strangely Tomasino some of us won’t want to see the movie The King’s Speech ... watching Hollywood actors hamming their way through part of one’s life’s history will never come close to the touching drama of the real thing ... not to mention the irritation barbs of gross Yankee misconceptions expressed by others ... like this Lulu from Prof. PD

“Heck, I thought the King's wishy-washy attitude toward Nazi Germany,
and his disapproval of Churchill, was common knowledge.”

You wouldn’t believe a word of it, judging by the smile above on Churchill’s face.

PS Might I correct your close

"given the irony of the British royal family being German" ... "being OF aristocratic GERMAN (Greek and Russian) STOCK."

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#1616745 - 02/10/11 09:21 AM Re: The King's Speech [Re: tomasino]  
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Originally Posted by tomasino
I haven't seen "The King's Speech," and probably won't, as it appears from all the buzz to be a pop-historical film of the sort that encourages deficient people to idolize the talentless and unproductive; a phenomenon even worse than idolizing certain celebrities for no reason other than they are celebrities.


that's too bad; you'll miss a great performance by colin firth.

when one realizes that almost all art is subjective a temporary suspension of disbelief allows a bit of pleasure to seep in.

#1616748 - 02/10/11 09:24 AM Re: The King's Speech [Re: keyboardklutz]  
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Originally Posted by keyboardklutz
If anybody makes anything look easy they're working quite hard (as Mozart once said 'I do my practicing at home).

that or that its actually easy

#1616781 - 02/10/11 10:26 AM Re: The King's Speech [Re: loveschopintoomuch]  
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Wow! Thank you all for responding to my post. So much to digest, whether fact or fiction, theory or opinion, I just wish I had more brain cells to take it all in. History, especially European history, was never my strong suit. I had all I could do to manage a somewhat spotty grasp of American history.

That being said, while a few of you did touch a bit on what (I thought) the film was really about, I would like to expand/expound on that just a little more. IMO, the story was that of one man (just a man, really, nothing more) who, because of horribly traumatic experiences in his childhood by adults who ignored, belittled and abused him, suffered such anguish that he was unable to speak in public without stammering. But with the help of a wonderful teacher, he was able to find that confidence that was buried deep within, overcome his doubts of self-worth and with extraordinary bravery, defeat the effects that caused him such inner pain and turmoil. He rose to the occasion that was thrust upon him and did so (while not exactly happily) with grace and dignity. While the backdrop of this story was one of historic significance, I believe the movie was about the strength of the human spirit. And the actors were unbelievably talented in expressing this tale of man’s struggle to become all that he might be, whatever the odds. (Beethoven's music was indeed a perfect choice in this regard.)

Kathleen

Last edited by loveschopintoomuch; 02/10/11 10:57 AM.

After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891
#1616793 - 02/10/11 10:44 AM Re: The King's Speech [Re: loveschopintoomuch]  
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Quote
... not to mention the irritation barbs of gross Yankee misconceptions expressed by others ... like this Lulu from Prof. PD

“Heck, I thought the King's wishy-washy attitude toward Nazi Germany,
and his disapproval of Churchill, was common knowledge.”

You wouldn’t believe a word of it, judging by the smile above on Churchill’s face.


Gotta hand it to you, btb, your logic is almost as cockeyed as your grammar! grin

Let's see, a benignly smiling Churchill stands on a balcony with an awkwardly waving George in early 1945, after six bloody years of war, and this supposedly tells us what George's views were in 1939 as an anxious Europe began the descent into heck. Yeah, right. Only in your mind is this called logic. But people who have made up their mind just construct "evidence" as a way to feel good.

1945 ≠ 1940

#1616882 - 02/10/11 12:44 PM Re: The King's Speech [Re: loveschopintoomuch]  
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[Linked Image]

Four kings:
King Edward VII (far right),
his son George, Prince of Wales, later George V (far left),
and grandsons Edward, later Edward VIII (rear),
and Albert, later George VI (foreground), c. 1908.

#1616894 - 02/10/11 01:00 PM Re: The King's Speech [Re: Piano*Dad]  
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Originally Posted by Piano*Dad
Quote
... not to mention the irritation barbs of gross Yankee misconceptions expressed by others ... like this Lulu from Prof. PD

“Heck, I thought the King's wishy-washy attitude toward Nazi Germany,
and his disapproval of Churchill, was common knowledge.”

You wouldn’t believe a word of it, judging by the smile above on Churchill’s face.


Gotta hand it to you, btb, your logic is almost as cockeyed as your grammar! grin

At least he called you a Lulu! That's got to be worth something.

Maybe if I'm brutal enough in my arguments he'll call me a Wozzeck. smile

-Jason



Beethoven op.110, Chopin op.27/2, Liszt Vallée d'Obermann
#1616918 - 02/10/11 01:31 PM Re: The King's Speech [Re: loveschopintoomuch]  
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Quote
At least he called you a Lulu! That's got to be worth something.


Yeah, but it's a quaint and old-fashioned sort of term .... much like the reverential attitude taken toward the Windsors. wink

Maybe I should post the pic of me having lunch with the Iron Lady. That might get him going. grin

#1616924 - 02/10/11 01:40 PM Re: The King's Speech [Re: loveschopintoomuch]  
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One of my relatives with King George V and the Prince of Wales. He did tell George he needs to keep an eye on his son!
[Linked Image]


snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/

#1617023 - 02/10/11 03:34 PM Re: The King's Speech [Re: tomasino]  
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Originally Posted by tomasino
I haven't seen "The King's Speech," and probably won't, as it appears from all the buzz to be a pop-historical film of the sort that encourages deficient people to idolize the talentless and unproductive; a phenomenon even worse than idolizing certain celebrities for no reason other than they are celebrities.

Having disqualified myself from commenting further, I nevertheless will: the irony of using Beethoven's music seems fitting, given the irony of the British royal family being German.


I don’t know how to interpret this. Are the “deficient people” those of us who loved the film? I would politely suggest that this is a baseless generalisation. I have never hitherto considered myself deficient.

Are you saying that the actors are “talentless”? That is patently ridiculous. Or do you mean the Royal Family? It is not their role to be talented. As a figurehead for a nation at war, George VI had a most important role. Talent had nothing to do with it.

“loveschopintoomuch” has summed up what the film is really about perfectly.

Would you call Obama Kenyan? I certainly would not wish to be called Polish, despite having Polish ancestors. The royal family are not German.

#1617030 - 02/10/11 03:46 PM Re: The King's Speech [Re: David-G]  
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Originally Posted by David-G
The royal family are not German.
SAXE-COBURG-GOTHA English?


snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/

#1617103 - 02/10/11 05:43 PM Re: The King's Speech [Re: loveschopintoomuch]  
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Lots of people in the UK have foreign names and foreign origins. Doesn't make them not British now.

#1617146 - 02/10/11 06:49 PM Re: The King's Speech [Re: loveschopintoomuch]  
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Indeed, but the family often spoke German among themselves into the 20th century, at a time in which Germany was rising as the UK's prime rival for power. You can perhaps forgive people for worrying about the German connection without thinking that the Windsor family was somehow disloyal (which they weren't).

#1617193 - 02/10/11 08:15 PM Re: The King's Speech [Re: loveschopintoomuch]  
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Originally Posted by loveschopintoomuch

But with the help of a wonderful teacher, he was able to find that confidence that was buried deep within, overcome his doubts of self-worth and with extraordinary bravery, defeat the effects that caused him such inner pain and turmoil. He rose to the occasion that was thrust upon him and did so (while not exactly happily) with grace and dignity.

Whew Kathleen, very well written (though historically suspect), and I suppose this film is as harmless as 'Amadeus', but not as I see it.

Lionel Logue was a Christian Scientist -at that time a very popular religion- but I find it very difficult to believe that Logue didn't invoke Mary Baker Eddy's statement in her book 'Science and Health' on page 454: Right motives give pinions to thought, and strength and freedom to speech and action.

IMO, there is no way that Logue couldn't have brought that up with the King, and Mrs. Eddy's choice of the word 'pinions' is interesting.



Jason
#1617232 - 02/10/11 09:19 PM Re: The King's Speech [Re: argerichfan]  
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Originally Posted by argerichfan
... the king told his diary that he couldn't get used to the idea of Churchill as prime minister ...

That was because Churchill had expressed significant doubts about him as a potential future King.

#1617264 - 02/10/11 10:02 PM Re: The King's Speech [Re: David-G]  
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Originally Posted by David-G
Originally Posted by argerichfan
... the king told his diary that he couldn't get used to the idea of Churchill as prime minister ...

That was because Churchill had expressed significant doubts about him as a potential future King.

Wow. What a profoundly astute observation. No wonder I emigrated to the US, and I truly fear for the Realm.

Not only do I have to fight Republicans on the new side of the pond, I also have to worry about the Old Country. It's a hard life. laugh


Jason
#1617284 - 02/10/11 10:58 PM Re: The King's Speech [Re: loveschopintoomuch]  
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Backed by the appeasing “Peace in our time” communique of then PM Neville Chamberlain (but later taken for a ride by Hitler) ... is it any wonder that King George VI questioned the new PM Winston Churchill who quickly showed his “ We will fight them ....” bellicose colours.

Here’s Churchill in bulldog mood visiting the north east defences of England ... 1940.
[Linked Image]

#1617297 - 02/10/11 11:22 PM Re: The King's Speech [Re: btb]  
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Originally Posted by btb

Here’s Churchill in bulldog mood visiting the north east defences of England ... 1940.
[Linked Image]

There is some doubt about the actual location where that picture was shot, propaganda being what it is... and necessary.

btb, don't question my love of the Old Country, you should know better than that. You can make fun of me as you wish for not being a proper 'Monarchist', but in emigrating to the US I did what I had to do. My life was at an end in the UK, and the opportunity came up to leave. I am so much happier now, you don't approve of that?


Jason
#1617309 - 02/10/11 11:46 PM Re: The King's Speech [Re: argerichfan]  
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Originally Posted by argerichfan
btb, don't question my love of the Old Country, you should know better than that. You can make fun of me as you wish for not being a proper 'Monarchist', but in emigrating to the US I did what I had to do. My life was at an end in the UK, and the opportunity came up to leave. I am so much happier now, you don't approve of that?


My friend, if you're going to seek validation for your life choices in the writing quirks of our good chappie, you might be in for a confusing time. I imagine that's a long and absurd road. smile

(no offense, btb; just "stirring up the pot")

-J



Beethoven op.110, Chopin op.27/2, Liszt Vallée d'Obermann
#1617337 - 02/11/11 12:50 AM Re: The King's Speech [Re: loveschopintoomuch]  
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Any more of this anti-monarchist chat ...
and “Ve vil haf yo shot” (putting on my best Deutch voice)

#1617395 - 02/11/11 03:22 AM Re: The King's Speech [Re: argerichfan]  
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Originally Posted by argerichfan
Originally Posted by David-G
Originally Posted by argerichfan
... the king told his diary that he couldn't get used to the idea of Churchill as prime minister ...

That was because Churchill had expressed significant doubts about him as a potential future King.

Wow. What a profoundly astute observation. No wonder I emigrated to the US, and I truly fear for the Realm.

Not only do I have to fight Republicans on the new side of the pond, I also have to worry about the Old Country. It's a hard life. laugh

We can agree to differ.

But coming back to the film - Kathleen summed it up perfectly. It is a drama about people. And much more moving than I had expected. The political situation is just a background.

#1617400 - 02/11/11 03:52 AM Re: The King's Speech [Re: loveschopintoomuch]  
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How was the music score of the movie, ie the original music composed by Alexanre Desplat?? He is a talented composer..

As for the British monarchy, their past is no more or less brilliant than their present and not terribly different than that of other politicians. It would thus be good if they could be similarly voted in or out of "royalhood".. I find it odd to be walking around with a Prince title and entitlement just because you were born with it.. 'tis the 21st century after all. But we do -love to- digress, don't we.

#1617509 - 02/11/11 08:41 AM Re: The King's Speech [Re: loveschopintoomuch]  
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No Sir, David-G ... and with respect ... Kathleen has put on her mollycoddling boots with her opinion of the core of the movie “The King Speaks”.

“IMO, the story was that of one man (just a man, really, nothing more) who, because of horribly traumatic experiences in his childhood by adults who ignored, belittled and abused him, suffered such anguish that he was unable to speak in public without stammering”

Where in the world did someone dredge up those diabolical adults who “ignored, belittled and abused him” ... this is apron-strings balderdash

From Wikipedia

“He often suffered from ill health and was described as "easily frightened and somewhat prone to tears". His parents, the Duke and Duchess of York, were generally removed from their children’s day-to-day upbringing, as was the norm in aristocratic families of that era (Public School boarding house). He had a stammer that lasted for many years, and was forced to write with his right hand although he was naturally left-handed. He suffered from chronic stomach problems as well as knock-knees for which he was forced to wear painful corrective splints.”

Perhaps he was sidelined from playing rugga ... however was later mentioned in despatches for his action as a turret officer aboard HMS Collingwood
during the battle of Jutland (31 May — 1 June 1916).


But King George VI got over his stammering ... by speaking slowly he managed to make New Year addresses over the radio ... even from distant Cape Town we used to look forward to his encouraging BBC speeches.

#1617516 - 02/11/11 09:04 AM Re: The King's Speech [Re: keyboardklutz]  
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Originally Posted by keyboardklutz
Originally Posted by David-G
The royal family are not German.
SAXE-COBURG-GOTHA English?


I thought UK inheritance was via the Paternal line. So in Philips Case (Duke of Edinburgh) his father was from the House of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg (which is described as "Danish").

I like the idea of the royal family being rebranded yet again back from Mountbatten/Windsor to "Holstein" since it sounds like a cow or lager which I guess is quite fitting! But "Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg" don't sound very British either!

Last edited by EJR; 02/11/11 09:05 AM.
#1617517 - 02/11/11 09:06 AM Re: The King's Speech [Re: loveschopintoomuch]  
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I think its different if youre a prince consort instead of a king.

#1617521 - 02/11/11 09:10 AM Re: The King's Speech [Re: loveschopintoomuch]  
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No, actually. The early Georges were "Hanoverian." But when Victoria married Albert (prince consort), their children were Saxe-Coburg Gotha (which George V changed deliberately to Windsor during WWI). Presumably Charles is the first of his line and could change the dynastic "name" to his father's. As if anyone cares. smile

#1617686 - 02/11/11 01:15 PM Re: The King's Speech [Re: keyboardklutz]  
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Originally Posted by keyboardklutz
Originally Posted by David-G
The royal family are not German.
SAXE-COBURG-GOTHA English?


Further thought: It doesn't sound British, but sure sounds AngloSaxon (hence Anglish)?

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