Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Lomence pianos - comments please...

...... "I love these pianos "

Lomantic

Bet I'm not the only one thinking this...

Fingers,
Let your son know we appreciate the feedback.
Does he have his own PW account yet??? Start them early and you never know, they might tweak and tailor what will be mainstream somewhere down the road.

A sky blue grand - schnazzy to say the least.

What I came to realize is that for the appropriate market, these Lomence pianos could easily be the first mainstream, modern-looking piano since, well, ...ever.

My God man.

Are you for real?

I actually met you a while ago and you seemed like a pretty sensible and down-to-earth kind of guy.... albeit with a few disparaging remarks about Paolo Fazioli being a furniture builder.... but w/e I understand why dealers trash their competition...



Guess those lovely Steingraebers aren't selling so well after all!


Seriously though-good luck with all of your endeavours.

This idea sounds like it might just be crazy enough to work!

JustAnotherPianist

You don't include your name with your post... did we cross paths at a piano convention?

Actually my most recent Steingraeber sale was a mere 5 weeks ago, and I appreciate your concern but it is not necessary after all.

Re: your interpretation of whatever conversation we have had about Fazioli, what I admit I do point out to various folks is that most prestigious pianos carry with them a long heritage of piano making experience (multi-generational) where Fazioli dates back only to the late 1970's. For me, when considering the financial investment, I am most comfortable with a company with as rich a heritage as the piano you own yourself.

But doesn't it?

Congratulations on your sale. I sincerely hope it wasn't your first. I mean, let's face it, you've got a lot of money tied up stocking that line. They aren't exactly selling like the proverbial hotcakes of old... In terms of financial investment, we both know you'd probably be making a lot more money selling gray-market Yamahas.

I don't want to start some longstanding feud here-as I said, you seemed like a pretty sensible and down-to-earth guy. It just stung me a bit the way you slammed your competition. Furniture builders? Come on man. Fazioli.

Surely a guy selling such a classy piano doesn't need to stoop so low. Leave that kind of thing to the Steinway dealers.

For the record, I personally prefer Steingraebers to Faziolis in general. They have a warmer sound.

I wish you the best of luck with this new line. As everyone knows, these are difficult times for piano dealers, and I respect people with the balls to try things like this. I really do.

But I'm sure you'll forgive me for admitting that I still had to open a new tab to your site just to make sure this wasn't some kind of uber-early April Fools joke...

I may have missed something, but...how do they work as pianos?

Is the cabinet maker also building the piano; that is, the interior?

They conjure up some interesting ideas….

ddf

Let me start off by saying that I'm a piano newbie. I have a close friend who is a theatre organist and he's gotten me interested in actually doing something about that life-long fantasy of playing the piano. So, I've been looking for info on pianos, and mostly digital pianos, since that's what would actually fit my budget, skill level, and space. This site has been a great resource for figuring out what to look for.

Then I stumbled upon this thread. As that piano-newbie, here are my comments:

My first impression was formed by the pink TP123. I was dismayed to see that Hello Kitty's march towards total world domination continues unabated. Thus its appeal to 7-year-old girls, but not 14-year-old boys. The black TB123 is actually not horrible, but I'm not a fan of all that clear plastic. Just personal opinion.



This makes me think that the primary focus of this piano line is not playability or sound quality, but looks. The piano itself is second to "decor trends."

Now for the non-superficial things that really bother me. Like many new buyers, I've been doing tons of internet research, trying to find what will best fit my needs and budget. It's something I've done for years when considering a purchase of something that I'm going to own for a while: washing machine, computer, car, and so on. (And don't tell me pianos are "different" and you have to go to a piano store. It is no longer 1957. Buyers go to the internet first, then go to the store.) So, the search results for "Lomence piano" was a bit surprising.

The vast majority of the results, aside from your site and the many chinese sites I can't read, are for bulk chinese goods import companies that are brokering Lomence pianos. I actually skimmed through all the results for "Lomence piano", because Google only has about six pages of results once start clicking to the next page. Many are using the same bad-English boilerplate:



Most tellingly, I can't seem to find the company that is the supposed "USA" partner asserted by many of these sites. The letters "USA" are also featured prominently (in gold!) on the front of each of the upright pianos that I saw on your site. The fact that they actually aren't made in the USA pisses me off, and looks like deception.

My final decision: I would not buy a Lomence piano. Way too many creepy vibes about them. If I had a 7-year-old daughter that demanded a pink piano, well, I'd go with a used model of a brand that I trust and can vet, and a pack of removable Hello Kitty stickers.

Yeah, I read that on the Lomence site as well. All I could conclude was that the actual instrument inside the box was one of the "factory of the month" Chinese producers.

If I wanted a Chinese piano, I would probably stick to the ones that are actually trying to establish a reputation for quality by selling under their own name in the international market.

If I wanted only a fashion statement, and enjoyed this kind of colored kitsch, well ....

I don't see this having "home" appeal
more like a commercial setting.. the white & pink remind me of a jukebox..

I just showed the photos to my 15-year-old daughter and her comment was, "Looks like a Barbie piano." So even if a 7 year old daughter wants one, there's no guarantee they'll still be liking it 8 years later....

I actually like them a lot better than some of the hideously overdone old pianos. The ones with massive carvings all over them and the ornate inlays just make me cringe.

These pianos look like fun to me. If they play and sound good I would certainly consider them.

Thank you WoodE for your post. Honest and informative feedback is exactly what we are interested in hearing.



Lomence pianos are physically just over one month old in North America, hence the lack of North American search results online.
As a very modern take on an otherwise very traditional instrument, we purposely omitted, (and it would definitely be soliciting if) any discussions on the technical features and aspects of the Lomence pianos were brought up. There is no sense in even discussing Lomence pianos playability if no one is interested in having one. Plain and simple.



We understand your point precisely regarding the USA on the front of the pianos. When I met with the Lomence company I made the exact same statement as you. I made it clear that this absolutely needs to be removed for any Lomence pianos I bring into North America - I too despise deception in doing business. So with the very first units (just a month ago) there is no USA markings physically on the piano and we will have updated images to replace these initial ones in due course.

Why did they include this in the first place? This design was arrived at with the help of an American.

You are absolutely right, there is not much included with regards to the technical aspects of the piano and again, I do not wish to address this specifically because it would be biased of me and fall outside the bounds of the purpose of this forum.



PianoDad,
Can you please name three Chinese pianos that fit your remark - I'll even get you going and help you out with two: Pearl River and Hailun.

Now for some insight on the piano industry
This may come as a shock to many here on pianoworld...
Aside from NY & German Steinways and Yamaha (and perhaps Kawai), 99.99% of all other piano manufacturers do not make all the parts and components used in their pianos themselves. This goes from the top of the tiers right down to the bottom. They purchase these components from a company who makes them elsewhere.
Let me expand...
To serve the entire world's piano manufacturing industry, once you eliminate Steinway and Yamaha (because they make their own) there about a handful of other piano action manufacturing companies. (Renner in Germany, Detoa in the Czech Rep., Luo which is the largest in the world in China and one more in Beijing I believe).
So folks, no matter what 'brand' you think you are buying, guess what, your piano actions are all coming from one of a very few limited places. (These few companies offer varying levels in quality, but more about that later).

Something else that is interesting..... a strung-back refers to the strings, cast iron plate and back frame of an upright piano. It would not be something new for piano manufacturer's outside of Asia to order their strung-backs from an Asian source, and continue completing the piano. So in some cases, some very well respected non-Chinese brands carry a 'heart and soul' produced in China. And the same strung-backs could be going to multiple, different piano manufacturers all around the world.
So again, the 'brand' you think you are buying contains the same strung-back of another, different 'brand'.

The interesting tidbits continue...
Hammer felt is produced by felt companies and then sold in sheets to companies involved in hammerhead making. Obviously these hammerhead manufacturer's then approach the piano manufacturer's to offer their hammers to them.
There are a limited number of hammerhead manufacturer's (and even fewer supplying felt companies) and they sell their hammers to numerous different piano manufacturer's.
Again you buy a particular 'brand' but they carry the same source of hammers as another, different 'brand'.

The same goes for strings, keys, tuning pins, and on and on.

What is my point? Hang in there...

While providing piano manufacturing companies with the various parts that make up a piano, what these piano component manufacturing companies provide are varying levels of quality in the components they supply to the actual piano manufacturer's - the end result is our tiered system of various pianos at different price points.
Let me give an example using hammer felt:
Felt company X provides very high quality felt to Hammer maker Y who in turn produces high quality hammers that are sold to High end piano manufacturer Z.
High end piano manufacturer Z charges a higher price for their piano because of the better quality and higher costs associated with using the high quality felt.
At the same time, the same Felt company X provides a lesser grade felt to Hammer maker Y who in turn produces a lesser quality set of hammers which are sold to a mid-market priced piano manufacturer Q.
Mid-market priced piano manufacturer Q provides an overall piano whose price is, you got it, mid-market.

And this continues for all piano components.


Perhaps, 10 years ago, Chinese-made pianos were not quite the best quality. Today, the Chinese have realized that if they are serious about the piano industry, they better go to the right sources for their supplies. Hence, a good many of them use German felts, German strings, woods from around the world known to be best for specific aspects of tone generation, etc, etc.
They may not demand the highest grade quality from these European sources, but they are utilizing the European piano engineering of the founding fathers of piano making in their manufacturing processes by securing their components from these European suppliers.
Combine that with significantly reduced labour costs and you have a very decent instrument at a value-based price.

What should be recognized from all of this, is that at a particular market price point, the only 'real' concern should be how the piano sounds and feels, and whether you trust the dealer with whom you are purchasing. Don't get deceived by mythical 'stencil' brands that make use of bankrupt piano giants from the past. If the retail price for a new upright piano is under say $8,000 - it simply ain't coming from Europe or North America anymore. Is their reason for concern for its level of quality? Not anymore.

Well, let’s not forget Kawai which has been manufacturing its own actions for some decades now. Or Young Chang which has also been manufacturing its own actions for quite some time. (Both of these companies, of course, also make their own hammers.) Let’s also not forget that upstart Mason & Hamlin whose WN&G action has been drawing some attention of late.

But otherwise your points are well taken.

Unfortunately, none of this addresses my question; how do these pianos function as pianos? I took it as a given that they were sourced out of China but, as we all know, there are both good and bad pianos coming out of China.

Personally, I get excited any time I see something interesting showing up in the piano market. These pianos are not my taste but they don’t have to be. They certainly offer variety and a dramatic, fresh look in what can be a staid and stagnant industry. I’d hope, of course, that the manufacturer could explore colors beyond pink and fluorescent red-orange.

It would also be interesting to explore new core shapes but unless they are capable of designing and building their own pianos (or have enough purchasing clout to get others to do this for them) they are going to be some limited by the traditional shapes. The grand pictured is interesting but it is obviously limited by the shape of the traditional grand skeleton as have the exotic art case grands lately produced by several other manufacturers. It would be even more interesting to see what this designer could do with a grand skeleton shaped like the early M&H SymetriGrand.

Still, all the imaginative and innovative styling in the world won’t help them if the things can’t function adequately as pianos. When mom and dad decide to indulge little Suzi by gracing her bedroom with her very own pink and plastic piano they’d like to know, I think, that they are also giving her a credible piano. So, I’m still back to my question; how do these pianos function as pianos?

ddf

Why the condescending tone? Part of your MO?

I knew exactly what I was saying. Del's question remains unanswered. Only peoples' experiences will tell whether the insides of these pianos work well as instruments.

John, I'm glad to see you addressed some of my points, and your argument about chinese products is important. A good example is my beloved iPhone, manufactured in China! There is no doubt by anyone that iPhones are some of the best built consumer products out there.

I know you stated that you've purposefully avoided discussing technical aspects of these pianos, but is there a place we can find out elsewhere? Could you PM me if you prefer to keep it out of this discussion? I understand your desire to avoid the appearance of marketing in these forums. But even as an uninformed buyer (who struggles with "Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star" with one finger) I would think that sound, construction and materials, and the like would be of great importance for many families making such a long-term and probably financially significant investment.

I also want to comment on the pink piano again... First, let me mention that I went to a mall recently that had an actual Hello Kitty store--an absolute explosion of pink and white. I think something happened there. Today, that little pink piano is actually kind of adorable. I've been infected by the cute!

I did mention Kawai in brackets as I wasn't entirely positive if they made [all] of their own actions and parts. Young Chang did get by me though, good to point that out for sure.
WN&G, although part of the M+H brand is available for sale to interested builders and rebuilders, regardless of brand so I left it out of the mix - not to mention the name WN&G is also a stencil action name as well.

As for how do Lomence pianos function?
Although this will not satisfy most, I believe that my involvement in the piano industry would aid in suggesting they are a viable and reliable choice - otherwise I myself would never have gotten involved with them.

In general...
Again, it is very early (just over a month) of these pianos being in North America. As time goes, and a few more are sold (yes, some already are) I'm sure they will find their way onto this site. I only hope that their won't be a battlefield between the pianoworld 'alumni' and those who thought - "wow, neat-o, that fits my style and it plays as well as a regular piano"
Otherwise, when the 'alumni' are gone (and I have one of my feet in both groups) so will the piano and that my friends, would be a huge loss to society.