2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
Who's Online Now
46 members (johanibraaten, CyberGene, Deltajockey, 3x4rt, Dazzie2, Greta99, 36251, EVC2017, 10 invisible), 398 guests, and 426 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Is a Grand Diapason Piano Worth 3k$?
#1605299 01/25/11 01:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 9
C
cavity Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
C
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 9
Hi, Guys,
I am a newbie and I got great information from here.
I am checking out a 6' Grand Diapason. The owner got it second hand so she doesn't know the year. The serial no. is 63158 though.
She thinks it was from mid 80s. This is Ebony finish, pretty shiny and new to me.
Could anyone give me some suggestions?
Thanks.

I also looked at other options:
1. Kawai 606,10Y,$2800
2. Old Kimball, $950
3. about 18 year old Baldwin Hamilton upright, $1200
4. Brendwood,18Y,700

I even checked out an old Charles Walters at $8000, which I think crazy price for a used upright!

Anyways, I dont have a strict budget, but I would like to get a good buy for whatever money I pay.

Thank you tons!!!!

Last edited by cavity; 01/25/11 02:08 PM.
Re: Is a Grand Diapason Piano Worth 3k$?
cavity #1605437 01/25/11 05:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,940
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,940
A piano with the brand name of an organ pipe makes me question its quality. :P

Never heard of them! But it is a 6' instrument. Usually lower brands didn't make large instruments like that. Who knows.


______
Home -
1905 Story and Clark Art Case smile

--NEW!--- 1964ish Conn 640 vacuum tube theatre organ! (with leslie!) smile

Grandmas- New Hyundai petite baby grand

Church (the organ I practice on)-
1998 Bedient (Built about 45 minutes from me!) 2m/pedal 24 rank Cavaille-Coll style pipe organ
Re: Is a Grand Diapason Piano Worth 3k$?
cavity #1605439 01/25/11 05:03 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,705
G
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,705
It's a Japanese make... either by Kawai or an out-of-business Japanese maker... don't remember. If you search this forum you might find more info. If you like it, then it's a good deal. Very hard to find a decent used 6' for $3k.

Re: Is a Grand Diapason Piano Worth 3k$?
cavity #1605471 01/25/11 06:02 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 4,346
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 4,346
Diapason is a stencil for Kawai being mostly if not all of gray market.It is tuff to trace it's actual vintage /age in that they do not follow Kawai as for serial # database. The mdl. in question is probably 5'10" which I have had a few in the past. 3k is a fair price contingent on it's present condition though most of these are a bit on the crusty side.


www.pastperfectpiano.com
Largest selection in the USA
100+Steinway and M&H grands
Warehouse showroom Onsite Restoration
Preowned & Restored
Hailun dlr.818-255-3145
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_z8RvhXGKzY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Voo0zumHGgE
Re: Is a Grand Diapason Piano Worth 3k$?
pianobroker #1605487 01/25/11 06:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
7000 Post Club Member
Offline
7000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
I think we should be careful about applying the 'stencil' label to the Diapason grands. It's true that the verticals weren't much, but the grands were built in-house by Kawai according to the design of a ex-Yamaha piano designer. I believe the gentleman's name was Hata Ohashi. Ohashi had started on his own but couldn't make a dent in the control that Yamaha and Kawai had over the Japanese market. Kawai worked out some sort of arrangement with him.

His design used full Renner actions and European soundboards. I might add that based on the couple I got to look over, these were legitimate high-end European soundboards. This choice of components is not what ordinarily comes to mind when the word 'stencil' is used.

I got to play one Diapaoson grand on several occasions. It was a beautiful piano with a combination of clarity and power quite different from the usual Kawai. It was around 5'8". The case was not perfect, a little beat up, but still very presentable.

There is a problem of dating from serial number on the Piapason grands, but I believe that the grand production began and ended in the eighties.

If the one you're interested in is similar to the one that I got to play. I'd say it's well worth the money as long as an inspection comes back clean.


Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier
Re: Is a Grand Diapason Piano Worth 3k$?
cavity #1605504 01/25/11 07:03 PM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,465
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,465
These were very nice pianos, with different designs than the equivalent Kawai pianos. They were sold by Kawai America through our regular dealer network, but of course some of them are brought over separately (grey market).

We do not have serial number records far back enough for me to check this serial number, but early to mid 80s looks about right.

As always with used pianos, have the piano inspected by an independent piano technician. If it checks out and you like the piano, it might be a good find!


Don Mannino, MPA
Kawai America
Re: Is a Grand Diapason Piano Worth 3k$?
KawaiDon #1605524 01/25/11 07:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
7000 Post Club Member
Offline
7000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
Don,

The Japanese web site is still up, but I don't know how much that means.

http://www.diapason.co.jp/

Do you have any idea what became of Mr. Ohashi?


Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier
Re: Is a Grand Diapason Piano Worth 3k$?
cavity #1605541 01/25/11 08:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,940
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,940
Their upright model that was pictured looks very beautiful! Like a U3, but with style!

They do seem to have made a nice product once upon a time.


______
Home -
1905 Story and Clark Art Case smile

--NEW!--- 1964ish Conn 640 vacuum tube theatre organ! (with leslie!) smile

Grandmas- New Hyundai petite baby grand

Church (the organ I practice on)-
1998 Bedient (Built about 45 minutes from me!) 2m/pedal 24 rank Cavaille-Coll style pipe organ
Re: Is a Grand Diapason Piano Worth 3k$?
cavity #1605566 01/25/11 08:53 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 13,469
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 13,469
Don’t know if this is relevant or not, but I recently sold my late 1980’s Japanese Tokai grand (G180-5’10”) for $3000. I don’t know how it compares to the Diapason, but I would think it would be of similar quality (or maybe better) and well worth $3K, if it is in good condition.

Like gnuboi said, the woods are not full of nice, pre-owned 6’ grands in good condition for $3K.

Of course, everything is hinges on whether or not you like the tone and touch of the Diapason.

Good luck!

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: Is a Grand Diapason Piano Worth 3k$?
cavity #1605606 01/25/11 10:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 9
C
cavity Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
C
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 9
http://images.craigslist.org/3kd3md3le5T55U45R4acba8039f492f331d78.jpg

This is a picture of it and i think it.is Pretty

what do you guys think ?

You have all been greatly helpful, thanks tons!

Re: Is a Grand Diapason Piano Worth 3k$?
cavity #1605627 01/25/11 10:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 9
C
cavity Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
C
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 9
AlsO, for the Baldwin I am looking at, the series no is 459606, Could anyone help me find the age? I failed to get it on the blue book site.
What do you think it is worth?

Thnx tons!!!!

Re: Is a Grand Diapason Piano Worth 3k$?
Rickster #1605629 01/25/11 10:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 9
C
cavity Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
C
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 9
Originally Posted by Rickster
Don’t know if this is relevant or not, but I recently sold my late 1980’s Japanese Tokai grand (G180-5’10”) for $3000. I don’t know how it compares to the Diapason, but I would think it would be of similar quality (or maybe better) and well worth $3K, if it is in good condition.

Like gnuboi said, the woods are not full of nice, pre-owned 6’ grands in good condition for $3K.

Of course, everything is hinges on whether or not you like the tone and touch of the Diapason.

Good luck!

Rick



What year is yours, RiCk? Thnx.

Re: Is a Grand Diapason Piano Worth 3k$?
cavity #1605645 01/25/11 11:21 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 374
M
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
M
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 374
Here are some facts about Diapason pianos and Mr. Hataiwa Ohashi. 1)Diapason is not stencil Kawai - designed by different person(s), action materials are different, scale designs are different, looks definitely different 2)Diapason pianos are still available by Diapason compay. Diapason company does not have their own manufacturing facilities. Kawai is manufacuring them. 3)Diapason pianos were originaly desinged by Hataiwa Ohashi, but it is speculated some design changes have been made by some engineers other than him. 4)Hataiwa Ohashi passed away in 1980. 5)Diapason piano, Ohata piano, or Mr. Hataiwa Ohata are known, even in Japan, only by highly-informed amateures and professionals.

What is the model of the 6' Grand Diapason? If it begins with D, it should have the same quality as Kawai RX series. If it begins with R, it should have a near-SK quality.

--
an amateur

Last edited by masaki; 01/26/11 08:01 PM.
Re: Is a Grand Diapason Piano Worth 3k$?
cavity #1605663 01/25/11 11:47 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 13,469
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 13,469
Originally Posted by cavity
What year is yours, RiCk? Thnx.


Hi cavity, my Tokai was one of the later ones imported into the US in the late 1980's... the original owner I bought it from said he bought it new in 1989. I figure it was probably an 86 or 87 model as best I can tell.

The guy who bought it was a trained classical pianist who wanted a grand piano so his two young daughters could start piano lessons; they were thrilled with the piano. It had a nice tone, though a little on the bright side, and an excellent medium touch.

Best of luck with your search... sounds like the Diapason is a good prospect.

Rick

Last edited by Rickster; 01/25/11 11:48 PM.

Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: Is a Grand Diapason Piano Worth 3k$?
cavity #1605734 01/26/11 02:34 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
7000 Post Club Member
Offline
7000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
Originally Posted by cavity
http://images.craigslist.org/3kd3md3le5T55U45R4acba8039f492f331d78.jpg

This is a picture of it and i think it.is Pretty

what do you guys think ?


Well it appears to be a grand piano with the lid up. That's about all the photo tells me.

I can tell you two things.

1. A Diapason grand from the 80's was not a generic Japanese grand of the period. It was a departure from the sound and feel of Japanese pianos of the 80's. If it is in good condition,the touch should be very responsive. The power should be better than average, and the clarity of tone should be markedly different. No ofesnse to Rickster, who defended his Tolai well here against sometimes unreasonable criticism. I've played Tokai grands of the 80's. I've played Diapason grands of the 80's. Tokais of that are not really bad pianos as built, but they were not in the same league with Diapasons of the same era.

2. The piano is absolutely worth seeing. If you like its touch and sound, it is worth the cost of a thorough inspection. If the inspection comes back clean, you have the opportunity to purchase a very fine grand piano at a very modest price. If you don't like it or if an inspection reveals significant problems, you should move on. Most pianos twenty-five to thirty years old are not what they once were. You should always proceed with the understnaing that a piano of that age with a clean bill of health will be the exception and not the rule. That way you don't build your hopes to the point where they cloud your judgment.

Re: Is a Grand Diapason Piano Worth 3k$?
cavity #1605900 01/26/11 11:46 AM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 9
C
cavity Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
C
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 9
Thank you very much, Rich and Turandod, and everyone else.
I will check into the model, thanks Masaki.

Re: Is a Grand Diapason Piano Worth 3k$?
cavity #1605907 01/26/11 11:59 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,493
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,493
As an aside, for those who are not aware of it, Google can translate that http://www.diapason.co.jp/ link.


http://www.google.com/support/toolbar/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=146786


website | mp3 files | Yamaha AvantGrand N3 | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
Re: Is a Grand Diapason Piano Worth 3k$?
Dave Horne #1605913 01/26/11 12:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 9
C
cavity Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
C
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 9
Originally Posted by Dave Horne
As an aside, for those who are not aware of it, Google can translate that http://www.diapason.co.jp/ link.


http://www.google.com/support/toolbar/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=146786


Thank you! I did not realize that although I use google translate all the time.
if you see this site: http://www.diapason.co.jp/used/
a 1982 and 1995 upright cost about the same, 2300 to 2500 on their own site. Interesting.

Re: Is a Grand Diapason Piano Worth 3k$?
cavity #1605967 01/26/11 01:06 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 374
M
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
M
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 374
FYI: found a demo of a used Diapason 183E on Youtube.
The guy on the video says this particular model was designed by Hataiwa Ohashi. He does not mention about the price.

http://player.video.search.yahoo.co.jp/video/3847f12b4bd0396bbf1cde78f4aff357?p=%E3%83%87%E3%82%A3%E3%82%A2%E3%83%91%E3%82%BD%E3%83%B3%20&b=1&of=&dr=&st=&s=&pd=&ma=&rkf=1&from=srp

Last edited by masaki; 01/26/11 08:02 PM.

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Karsten Collection
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
Our October 2020 Free Piano Newsletter is Here!
---------------------
3,000,000+!
------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Estonia L225 loses tune very quickly
by M_albert - 10/20/20 01:49 AM
Piano Safari Christmas collection
by ebonykawai - 10/19/20 08:59 PM
Another "beginner" piece w/twist
by MilesAbbott - 10/19/20 08:58 PM
Sostenuto Pedal....in an upright?
by Duaner - 10/19/20 06:38 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics202,315
Posts3,015,360
Members98,949
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2020 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4