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Joined: Apr 2007
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deeluk, you've been gone for awhile. I recall you're one of the veterans of this thread 3 years ago...glad to see you visit. Want to do more? 
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Hey jazzwee. Yeah, been too long. Life and my muse has me off in other directions. I've been peeking in and lurking every once in a while. It's really awesome what you have been doing here. I wish I had the time to dedicate. Maybe someday. I had a lot of fun with your help and guidance. I learned sooooooo much. Looks like you got a new board too. Cool! I'm still pounding away on the old XS8. 
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Well at least it's an XS8. I can't believe it's 'old' now Just dumped my XS6 which I bought specifically for this thread. Keep lurking man. From the read counts, obviously someone's reading. The advanced thread is catching up though. Hope you can come back and do this again.
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SwingCabbage, let me help you with your thirds noodling so we put at least some structure here.
First make sure you're comfortable with playing the G Scale (for Autumn Leaves) starting with any note in the scale, so get your fingering issues resolved.
What we're going to work on is noodling but targetting thirds.
Let's just think of the ii-V-I
| Am7 | D7 | GMaj7|
Goals:
1. Start your noodling on the 'and' or '+'
2. Pick your starting note to be a note before the 3rd or after the 3rd. So for Am7 the target note is C. So think of the first note you will play as either B or D.
3. First let's just do this as two notes. An eighth note and a half note.
If you start the line at 1+, you migh play eighth notes as B C, or D C on the Am7
All the movements are just stepwise in the scale. Don't move to the next step until this is automatic.
4. Now later on expand it to all eighth notes. Again start the line at 1+, you migh play eighth notes stepwise as B C D E ...and stop when you lose control. The number of notes to play is up to you.
5. Don't think of stepwise as continuing in the same direction. Noodling involves up/down and reversing directions BUT AFTER YOU HIT YOUR TARGET NOTE. Typically after the first target note, the next several notes will be in sync with the chord.
This trains to you "target" chord tones but you actually play the target note via the approach note to it. And it also trains you to understand that short stepwise movements of eighth notes after the target note will naturally follow chord tones on downbeats.
This is the basic premise of the Bebop Scale. But it doesn't work once you cross an octave. For now, when it sounds off, just stop the line and start again.
Do this exercise at a tempo that's comfortable to you. If it's 60bpm it's fine.
Decided to rest last night. Alls well now this morning after a bit of Yoga. Lastnight instead of playing piano I read on to pages 24 and 25 of the thread. Everything you are saying above makes sense to me. I get it. I'm still not able to put emphasis on the offbeat because of the keyboard. I can hear it though I think in the youtube videos. I have 2 hours to practice this and will put up one or two mp3s for you folks to have a listen to. I may be slow here as when you look at the fingers moving on youtube the blur is real. Remember it took three weeks of hard work for my first posting. I got my daughter to show me how to do the fingering for the Gmajor scale and she showed me stepwise and contrary motion with two hands which is interesting. It makes sense to me that there are guides for playing scales. Bringing the thumb under and the third finger over depending on your direction. In the videos I see mainly fingers 1,2 and 3 being used where I can tell what fingers are involved. Is there somewhere you can point me regarding finger choice and general rules. As Jazzwee said somewhere 'learn with the rules and then when you become proficient with them then you can start to break them' or something like that. I know it was focused on improvising but maybe thereis a website somewhere that talks about finger placement. Practice now. Thanks again Jazzwee for the above. There will be lots of work in your above guidlines for me to last a while just here. Question Does Arps mean Arpegios and does this mean going up and down a scale on the chord tones 1,3,5,7 and maybe even 1,3,5,7,9,11,13 ect. I think that I will be instructed on this later in my learning. I have a yearning to know but not use just now. will stick to the programme. Talk talk SC
Last edited by SwingCabbage; 01/23/11 07:48 AM.
What exactly do you mean by 'swing'.
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Hey jazzwee. Yeah, been too long. Life and my muse has me off in other directions. I've been peeking in and lurking every once in a while. It's really awesome what you have been doing here. I wish I had the time to dedicate. Maybe someday. I had a lot of fun with your help and guidance. I learned sooooooo much. Looks like you got a new board too. Cool! I'm still pounding away on the old XS8. Deeluk I am in the middle of your posts from back at the start of the thread and am learning from your questions and the answers that Jazzwee and others posted. I know that your off in other directions bu it would be interesting to hear a rendition of AL from you three years later. Even though youve had a big gap. Anyway your posts live on in this thread. BC
Last edited by SwingCabbage; 01/23/11 07:53 AM.
What exactly do you mean by 'swing'.
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This is the only recording I made warts and all. http://www.box.net/shared/hcsovfj4laI had about an hour practice and now post my 5 min recording. I got a little carried away with the intro onto the 3rd. starting on a + and then the third. Lacks melody and I lost my place many many times. First time working with a moving base background so that takes a bit of getting used to. there is I hope a little bit of repeating patterns and some swing here and there. It's not easy and needs practice. I will go and do more practice and post something that I think is closer to where I need to be. Comments welcome. I need to sit down and listen to it myself in more depth. only had time to listen once. I know that there is alot of noise in here. You can hear me grunt and sigh in the recording. This is where and when I know I've moved into madness. Anyway I have to go and get me a piano. I will practice more and put up some decent improvs in a day or two. maybe just a few questions in the meantime. Thanks to all. 4 people listened to my other one. just saw that on box.net so there are others listning and following and not commenting. would be good to have someone else posting. 120 beats was the slowest backing I could locate to practice on. Talk Talk SC
What exactly do you mean by 'swing'.
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Hi SC,
here's a few things I'd say:
- Try to play more legato. Connect your notes more.
- Let your last notes ring longer. If you play extremely short lines, that's ok, but let the last note ring.
- You're playing a very fast tempo. I'd personally cut the tempo in half. Doesn't sound like 120, but rather 150 to me.
- It's cool to practice with a backing track, but use the metronome most of the time.
take care++
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Thanks knotty
I've listened a good few times now. I need to put in a good few hours practice. 10 or 15 before posting mynext mp3 up. In piping you woul call this tight playing. Pipitty pip pip pip. Highly detached.
I missed loads of 3rds as well. Maybe even more than i hit. There wasn't much swing at all either.
I will slow down. I have the chords inmyhead I think so noneedfor their support in playing.
I will practice with metronome set to 2, 4 at 80 bpm. I'll be back ina few days.
I'm a gettin a Yamaha p-95 B
Anything else in this price range I should consider folks?
SC
What exactly do you mean by 'swing'.
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Swing Cabbage - for what it's worth, just keep doing this. You sound in control. Interesting rhythms and phrasing. In fact I might even get back to it myself.
What backing-track are you using?
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Ok you swingin'. hep cats . . .
here's some weekend fun for you all.
2 tracks for your exercising.
Autumn Leaves of course . . .
Walkin bass and walkin bass w drums
mp3 as well as midi. mp3 is at 150 bpm. midi is at 120 but of course changeable.
Walkin bass mp3
walkin bass midi
walkin bass + drums mp3
walkin bass + drums midi
And for those of you who want to figure out what the bass is doing (and don't have access to a score app) here\'s a pdf of the bass line.
remember that all 8th notes should be played as triplets (see the third bar)
Ten left thumbs I was looking for a backing track playing at 60 like Jazzwee suggested. Even 80 woulda been grand. After searching came across above on page one and went for midi with drums. Chris said in post was 120. The walking base was a new one for me. Need to just listen to it more cause used to 1,3,7 sound from lessons. Thanks for your comments as well by the way. There you go. SwingCabbage
What exactly do you mean by 'swing'.
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Thanks, SwingCabbage, I found it and even managed to download it. I like the walking bass, somehow it's a bit of a relief after dense chords. I'll give improvising a go during the week.
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SwingCabbage that's a heck of great practice IMHO.  Very good actually. You're finding the 3rds and venturing nearby and youre aware of the offbeats. That fact that it's short and broken up makes sense because of the tempo. That's pretty fast. Now just remember that original exercise was Eighth + Half Note. So let it ring so you can hear it clearly. The problem you're having is that at this tempo, you can't execute 8th notes yet. Too fast. So talking about swing or legato may be premature here. This is a bigger achievement than you give yourself credit. If you want to not involve the LH (which is not a bad idea), I can give you a slower backing track. I'll record one or two for you later from my Iphone. Very good work. You're inspiring TLT too!
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SwingCabbage, here's an AL Backing track Autumn Leaves Backing - 80bpm http://www.box.net/shared/8bjpa2lks3It's pretty slow for swing. This is practically ballad feel. Now even then, don't start with multiple eighth notes. Reminder Goal 1: 1. You will play two notes. An Eighth and Half note in sequence. Legato. 2. Start the Eighth note on the offbeat. You can start on 1+, 2+, 3+, 4+ so don't feel rushed. There's plenty of time in a bar. 3. The offbeat note will be an approach note to the 3rd of the chord on the next downbeat. Now think about this. If you are starting on 4+, make sure the chord is the one for the next bar. Again to define an "approach note", it's a stepwise move to the 3rd (a step above or a step below). You are also allowed to approach it from the bottom chromatically (half step). But not from the top. 4. The second note as mentioned above is the 3rd of the chord and it must fall on a downbeat. 5. It's ok to skip playing if you lose your place. Don't feel rushed. Those are the rules. Master this first. Stay disciplined here. Don't rush forward to something more complex until you can do this without fail. The next steps are geometric increases in complexity.
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Understand
Good to have focus
TANKS
will post later
SC
What exactly do you mean by 'swing'.
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Thanks for creating 60bpm track. Over and above the call of duty. Much appreciated.
Ordered piano with weighted keys. Will be able to slow down midi and record my own backing as well soon.
many thanks again.
SC
What exactly do you mean by 'swing'.
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Thanks for creating 60bpm track. Over and above the call of duty. Much appreciated.
Ordered piano with weighted keys. Will be able to slow down midi and record my own backing as well soon.
many thanks again.
SC SC, any track is a piece of cake. Comes out of my Iphone and direct to my Zoom H4. I don't have to do anything special. I can even change the key. If you want a change (like tempo), let me know and I can post it. It takes like 5 minutes.
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Thanks Jazzwee. Have downloaded the backing track and used it with my keyboard.One of the best backing tracks I have been able to find. I guess you have made it on a DP, and then it is pretty good work. Some info on how you did it would be useful.
cubop
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Cubop, it's not made with a DP. It's made with an Iphone App called iRealbook, which is like Band-In-the-Box. All the common standards are pre-loaded with the chord changes. You can then make it play a backing track automatically, just by specifying a style (latin, bossa, swing, even 8ths) then give it a tempo. I've made it include only bass and drums and that's it. This is what I use for practice daily. I plug the iphone into my amp and mix it with the sound of the keyboard. Or if you have FP7F, you plug it directly into the keyboard. Piece of cake. And cheap too. I think it's under $15 with jazz styles. You can now also get latin styles (more advanced latin). So if you don't have an iphone/itouch/ipad, I can make the tracks for you. Otherwise, get one of these devices as I consider it a killer app for jazz musicians. And it sounds good doesn't it? Sounds better than the live players I deal with and it doesn't need to get paid
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jazzwee: I dont have an iphone or any of that stuff, so I think I will do some more searching on the net. Have checked Band in a box, but did not like the jazz tracks. I will get the Kawai MP6 in a couple of days, and will see what I can do with that. It has 100 rhytms, and some of them might be useful. I can also use the sequencer and do my own tracks.
The absolutely perfect solution would of course be a nice collection of Mehldaus and Jarrets backing directly plugged into your DP. Probably wont happen.
cubop
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Jazzwee
Was ging to ask how you are doing this on your iPhone. I use iPhone and iPad mainly but have had to go to computer for MIDI files. Cubop saved the journey.
I'll look into the iRealbook
Sounds like it could be usefull. Especially for backing track on the move with my mandolin.
Can you download and play midi files from other non iRealbook sources on your iPhone using iRealbook?
Will have something to post tomorow.
Talk Talk
SC
What exactly do you mean by 'swing'.
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