2022 our 25th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Who's Online Now
50 members (AlkansBookcase, Bruce Sato, APianistHasNoName, BillS728, bcalvanese, anotherscott, Carey, CharlesXX, 10 invisible), 1,657 guests, and 304 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,049
P
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
1000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,049
Background (you can skip if you want):

Due to less-than-stellar teachers early in my piano education, I have gaps in my technique and knowledge you could drive a truck through.

At the time in their piano education that well-taught students are working on Bach inventions and early classical rep (Haydn, Mozart), I was still in method books. When I finally got to my third teacher (the first decent one), she moved me out of methods and straight into Romantic pieces. I took lessons through college then didn't own a piano for 20 years. I returned a couple of years ago with a good teacher and a determination to fill those gaps once and for all.

Although I've (finally) done some Bach (Partita #1), I've never learned any Haydn or Mozart, so when my husband's job loss forced a break in my current piano lessons, I went looking for something I could work on without doing too much damage, and thought I'd try an early Haydn Sonata (Hob XVI:1).

The Problem:

I've had habitual tension problems (lifelong) that now seem to be in retreat due to concerted effort on the part of myself and my current teacher. However, getting the first movement of this sonata up to speed is becoming a serious challenge.

The 16th note Alberti Bass sections are causing me to tear my hair out. Trying to play them lightly, evenly, (fairly) softly and up to speed (my teacher suggested mm. 126) keeps tensing up my left hand.

Until my current teacher, None of my teachers ever addressed technique, at least in terms of *physically interacting* with the piano (the good teachers I don't think ever realized I wasn't properly trained in that regard. I had to insist my current teacher address this.), so I have sort of an inferiority complex about that now...and assume that if I have trouble with something, it's because I'm not playing correctly.

I would appreciate any practice tips/suggestions for extended fast pattern/tension issues. My teacher has given me some to work on but the combination of trying to play fast-evenly-softly is a big challenge for me. I can speed up but then the evenness goes to pot or it gets way too loud.

***To all of you who will say "why don't you ask your teacher"...of course that's the correct thing to do, however I can't do that at the moment. The speed/tension issue cropped up after my last lesson, as the piece is learned now and I'm 'just' trying to get it up to speed to perform for piano club. I won't have a lesson this week and I'd rather not just let things continue the way they are if anyone has suggestions.


Adult Amateur Pianist

My only domestic quality is that I live in a house.
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 466
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 466
It really helps to use "rotation movement" with Alberti bass figures. Rotation is a "turning the doorknob," rocking forearm motion; you can also try "playing" a tremolo in the air to get a feel for trotation movement.

The movement will not be very large at high speed, of course, but the movement is very crucial to achieving that speed and doing so in a controlled manner that won't let the volume rise and mess up your balance of sound between the hands. In addition to using rotation, keep your elbow completely loose.

I bet some of the technique experts here will have some help for you. Good luck with your piano club performance!

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,701
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,701
Two things - this is common sense, if you can't play something slowly, you can't play it fast. It takes a lot of time to make seemingly difficult passages easy.

... technique\tension ... If when playing, someone flips your wrist up and away from the keyboard, one of two things will happen, either your arm will fly away from the keyboard or it will be locked in place. If your arm is locked in place, you should seek another teacher, one who can explain how to play with the least amount of effort.

This is a very easy concept to learn but really needs someone next to you to explain it.



Yamaha AvantGrand N1X | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,194
K
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
K
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,194
Alberti bass is always in groups of four, a base, then 3 notes above. What I like to do is to voice the bass note (place a bit of emphasis on the pinky) and then lighter on the other 3. Don't play all 4 notes equally! Your wrist should be rotating left and right a bit, not locked in place; turn towards the pinky when you play the base note, then turn a bit away when you play the rest.

If that made no sense, remember: if the passage is in 16ths, group the notes into fours, with the emphasis on the base. Don't try to voice the notes equally.


Working on:
Chopin - Nocturne op. 48 no.1
Debussy - Images Book II

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,856
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,856
On modern actions it is far more difficult. You probably need to do what kuanpiano says - I was taught it as drop and flop. Read the tight wrist thread see if it may help.

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 163
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 163
I've recently started taking lessons again myself (a little over a year now), after many many years of playing pop and Jazz piano, and ignoring classical technique and repertoire. I've been workng on similar issues. Being conscious of the tension is the first step, with the alberti bass lines having a rocking motion in the left hand and not keeping the wrist rigid is what works for me. Like I said I'm just getting back into classical technique, and repertoire myself so others on here may have better suggestions.


Retired Army reserve Bandsman who now plays for the Joy of Music!!

Moderated by  Brendan, platuser 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
Piano World Has Been Sold!
--------------------
Forums RULES, Terms of Service & HELP
(updated 06/06/2022)
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
(ad)
(ad)
New Topics - Multiple Forums
How Much to Sell For?
by TexasMom1 - 04/15/24 10:23 PM
Song lyrics have become simpler and more repetitive
by FrankCox - 04/15/24 07:42 PM
New bass strings sound tubby
by Emery Wang - 04/15/24 06:54 PM
Pianodisc PDS-128+ calibration
by Dalem01 - 04/15/24 04:50 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums43
Topics223,384
Posts3,349,159
Members111,630
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010

Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations |

Advertise on Piano World
| Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map


Copyright © VerticalScope Inc. All Rights Reserved.
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community.