Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner - Non Classical Walking Bassline Clinic with Dave Frank now on Youtube

Dave, you should know that you are also listened to, studied and greatly admired in the middle of Europe.

Please, keep it your generous way!!!

Ed does have a point. I think we need guidelines so people will KNOW what is considered advertising and what is not.

First of all, if someone posts something COMPLETELY FREE, such as free lessons, it can't be a thinly veiled ad to lead people into making a purchase. For instance, if it's a video lesson, it should not have references in it about "going to my website and signing up for more". It really should something that is given to the people on the forums to help them in one way or the other. Sure, if everyone knows you did the video and you have your website in your tagline, they can find your business. I think that's ok. EVERYTHING about the video should smell like a helpful gift, not an ad.

Secondly, posting videos should not be your only participation on the forum. If you only show up to post videos or whatever, then it is going to be considered that you're using the forum to promote your business. Yep, the moderators are going to have a bit of a tough time making judgment calls on this point, but we'll just have to do our best.

Third, whatever videos are posted should have SUBSTANCE to them. If videos are obviously thrown together just to get someone's name thrown around on the forum then I'm going to call it advertising.

Maybe a good way to look at it would be this. You participate on the forum and you develop friendships. You might do a video to illustrate a point in the conversation taking place. You might do a video to help a friend who states he/she is having a problem. Or you might do a video to generally instruct and help forum members because you have an area of expertise and you are doing so to help. In the piano forum dealers are not allowed to try to sell pianos. They are not allowed to constantly make self-serving posts. But it is allowed for them to share their knowledge to help others or answer questions.

I am seeing a lot of positive comments on Dave's videos. So if Ed were to give a gift to everyone of some instructional videos following the guidelines above, I'm going to assume they will be received in the same spirit. However, if we see a bunch of moderator reports I'm going to assume there is something personal going on.

As always, the moderators are the final judge if anything is questionable.

As I see it, if someone posts a free lesson, and in that lesson, is a link to sign up for paid lessons, then it is up to the viewer, whether or not, they wish to follow that link.
The free lesson is still free, nevertheless.

Ed has a link to his paid lessons, in his signature, as do some others here (myself included).
If such a link is deemed unacceptable, then a policy decision should be made clear to all members

Dave Frank has been putting up some really important information from the kindness of his heart on love of jazz.

First of all, let's define the level. Dave's expertise is at such high a level that the mere posting of the information is "news". It's beyond what is normally available anywhere. Anyone who knows any jazz understands this.

And Dave interacts with us (even in the ABF jazz threads).

So let's not mess with this. And I have questions for you too Dave.

Dave, awesome stuff.

My specific question is that you didn't define any specific choices for the middle notes (3 remaining notes) in stepwise movement.

Some people who teach walking bass often suggest to make the last note a chromatic approach to the next root.

Or that note choices outline the chord quality at least in part.

It seems pretty clear that depending on direction, chromatic (non-scale) movement will be needed on at least one note.

Are you assuming here that what your "ear" tells you is correct without a further explanation?

Please. From the kindness of his heart? He wants you to go to his website and purchase stuff. Again ... no problem here. But if he can do it, so can others selling stuff here.

As far as 'level of expertise' goes, it's irrelevant.

My impression is that the link in the sig *is* the policy - and is not only ok, but encouraged, and is asked of professionals in the industry. So I think it's fine.

Cathy

I agree that the level of expertise is irrelevant.

But I don't see a link to Dave's website. I've only watched one of his videos, a while back, and I don't remember a reference to his website. One post somewhere said something about his wife's website, maybe? At any rate, for me, who is a Luddite extroardinaire, he's hiding the link to his website from which he may or may not want me to buy something. But if I can't find a reference to it, I can't buy anything

Cathy

What have I purchased? I haven't looked at anything to purchase. The links go to youtube! I didn't need to go to any website.

The 'level of expertise' is not irrelevant Ed. It's about value.

Common knowledge doesn't impart value. It goes to the heart of why all of us participate in a forum.

Dave Frank learned from Jazz great Lennie Tristano. Lennie has left us. Now here being codified on the internet is Lennie's teachings being shared. I don't have a nearby or common source of this information. Dave didn't give a "teaser" here so you can pay for more lessons. He's explaining the whole COMPLETE concept!

It seems on the other hand that you're using this event to justify your ability to sell your wares. Ok. To be fair, do exactly what Dave does. If it draws an audience, then good. It proves the value.

If there's no audience, then the VALUE must be missing. Then people percieve it as spam.

The community is judging here.

I get it. And once again, no problem here. But let Dave participate and add a sig file like the rest of us. His 'specialness' is of no consequence here.

I'd expect the same if Lang Lang himself started posting here. Although I doubt he would.

You make it sound like the policy on advertising is that you have to advertise. I don't get it. You've posted your link to your web site, what, ten times in this thread already, and Dave hasn't done so even once. And now you're demanding that he start posting his web site?

You obviously don't. Read Ken Knapp's post on page one of this thread and you might.

What's a sig file?

The notes that connect the roots of the chords in the basslines very well may include a chromatic notes(s), often as approaches to the next root. But you don't want to set it in stone, lots of possibilities exist. The best way to practice is to do the thing where you're trying to find *all* the possibilities of going from one root to another, over a 251 prog or something similar. Try some possibilities where you use chromatic approaches to the next root, and some where you don't. The common denominator that makes the bassline work is the melodic quality of the line, sometimes using whole steps, sometimes half steps, intervals, etc.
As long as it sounds like a decent melody, you're home.
After you practice trying out many possibilities, when you're improvising your ear will put it together spontaneously in the moment in new and surprising, or old and familiar ways..very important to go real slow to start.

So it seems the conundrum is this:

Ed posts the link to his website in his sig. Dave does not. So, Ed thinks that Dave really wants people to go to his web site to buy stuff. But since Dave doesn't post a link, and never references his web site, to most of us that does not appear to be true.

Ed thinks that his posts are objected to as marketing *because* he posts a link to his website in his sig, which meets PW policy, and that it is unfair that Dave can post here without getting objections to his marketing. But, of course, the reason Dave doesn't get objections is because no one can find any marketing.

So from what I can tell, it isn't true that Dave is marketing - I think Ed is mistaken about that. But, Ed wants Dave to put a link to his website in his signature, so that, maybe, people will also object to *his* posts as *marketing*. And Ed is trying to claim that it already is, with which I disagree.

But, I don't think the policy is that one must post a link to a website in one's sig. One is asked to identify one's self as an industry professional. One needn't post a link to do that. One of the piano teachers simply states "I am a piano teacher" in his sig. So both Dave and Ed could post "I play piano professionally" in their sigs, no links, and be within policy, as far as I can tell.

And both of them can link to youtube, with no selling of their website, and have no objections from me.

But as it stands, I don't see how Dave can be "marketing" when there's no reference at all to his website :\

I agree with jazzwee, though. Ed can post his youtube stuff, with no link in his sig to his website I might add, just a note that he plays professionally or that he's a piano teacher, and see if there's any objections for "marketing" his website, and/or any interest in his videos. That seems to me to be a more level comparison.

Just me.

Cathy

Dave has not just been sticking videos in here Ed. He's popped in frequently in the Jazz threads on ABF so he obviously reads it once in awhile.

Again, I'm not really criticizing you as much as I don't want Dave Frank to stop posting this stuff. Neither do I want him to be discouraged from doing so.

I understand that if some "new age" great like Yanni wants to post "instructional videos" here, someone will undoubtedly find that that interesting.

A similar thing happening is the frequent posting of videos by Music32 from her blog. A lot of it is out of context but if people get some value of it, then they'll respond. Otherwise, it just falls out of the page. That's democracy for you.

I have this book about the LH and it goes more specifically. For example, he says, in ii-V-I's, downward on ii-V and upward on I is all diatonic steps.

Upward on ii-V and downward on I needs a chromatic.

I knew that instinctively but it really helped me to realize there's a pattern.

Also, walking bass is easier on ii-V-I, or blues but, man, it's difficult on more unusual progressions!

I was having problems for a long time with keeping solid time with the LH while improvising on the right. So based on your video, I just cut the phrases to be very short and I kept in control longer. It just meant I went past my comfort level.

I agree about music32. I haven't seen anything that tells me she's selling anything. But the ABF is beginning to ignore her And the longest thread in the pianist corner that she started has maybe two posts in her support, many wondering why she's posting, and many many from Nyiregyhazi and liszt85, in which N.. is totally off the wall, IMNSO

So, again, for me, the issue really is marketing. And if Dave has no posts about his web site, he's not really marketing. And if he, or Ed, don't link to a web site in their sig, but just say "I play professionally" or "I teach piano", then their posts would look much like music32's, which can be read or not read with zero sense that there's any marketing. To me, anyway. Her link is to her blog, and, yes, I think she's just flogging her blog. But there's nothing being sold at her blog. She's just flogging her blog. Maybe she wants to sell something in the future. That's certainly a possibility. But at the minute she's not "marketing" in the sense that she wants to encourage a profit to her by flogging her blog. That's the way I see it, anyway.

So, the level playing field, for me, if for Ed to just say "I teach new age piano" in his sig, post away, and people can read/not read/respond/not respond/ask, either in the thread or by PM, if they can somehow take lessons from Ed. Or, leave the sig link, post away with youtube videos that don't reference his web site, and put up with the additional possibility that people will respond as if he's advertising, and let the mods sort it out.

But I still don't think Dave is advertising or marketing, because I can't find a way to figure out how to buy something. I guess I could PM and ask if he has anything to sell, or post in the thread and ask.

Cathy

Hi Dave,

in my opinion the function of a basslines is similar as a "cantus firmus".
In a way it forms a two part counterpoint with the melody.
For that reason its melodic curve does not only depent by itself but also on the melody.
Playing basslines over II-7 V7 IMA7 progressions certainly helps a lot. But analysing and trying to improvise on Bachs Inventions opens your mind also a lot regarding basslines. It gives you a real poliphonic feel and not only the impression that basslines "only" have to "serve". I think you know what I mean.

Here's an example demonstrating what I am intending with improvised basslines as a counterpoint to the melody.

Inventio 1

nice

I just wanted to +1 these notions as a way of adding my $.02 from the $8 I just got.

Kidding, kidding!!! But I find these rolling bar fights interesting. They spill into threads, make a bunch of noise, and then move on...

Please, Dave, keep the videos coming! The first one I saw was the Play Like Chico Marx. I thought, "Man, this is cool! Who is this guy? He can PLAY!" Ha-ha! Your videos are SUCH a blessing!

--Andy (I am not an expert, but I play one on PianoWorld)