Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner Problems with playing on my teachers grand piano...

That sounds so logical to me, so that means when playing pianissimo you have to play it just behind the escapement point? As that is the minimum effort to make the sound?

In the piece I'm studying I have to play the LH passagework(which isn't so fast...) pp (even tending towards ppp). I played it way to loud in the beginning. When my teacher plays it, it sounds so delicate. I'm wondering if I hit the keybed, wouldn't it be too loud?

I don't think we're using different vocabulary, but I don't understand why you think it would be close to impossible, or even difficult, to do what I'm saying, and I don't know if I could shed further light on it. I've described pretty exactly what I mean, perhaps by now in unconscionable detail.

OK, let me try this: Rather than having your downward movement stopped just by the key bed, you stop it with your own muscles before you get there. It's sort of like playing the note or chord with a "down-up," rather than just a "down." One of my teachers described it as imagining that you're actually playing the note with an upward motion. (You don't have to tell me that it's impossible literally.)

I don't know if this helps, but it's the best I can do.
I have a feeling this is an example of something that would be easy to demonstrate in person, but maybe not so easy like this.

Then I would be playing ala kbk's scratch? That kind of playing doesn't depress the keyboard all the way down.

Like I said, I'm talking about faster velocities here like FF. I would think that just the momentum alone will take you all the way down unless you're playing detached and intentionally pulling up.

Or maybe you think I was talking about fast playing? Maybe we're just misunderstanding each other here. To me velocity affects dynamics. I'm not talking about tempo. Obviously when you're playing fast tempo, you have to move to the next note before the key fully depresses.

Yes, that's what I thought. Seeing what you did mean, I think my best answer would be what I said to Bruce up there -- plus maybe what I said in an earlier post about the Chopin Ballade.

This monday I'm going to experiment a bit on a grand piano. And this tuesday I'll be having my next piano lesson. I will ask my teacher about her view about the subject... And I'll let you know what she thinks... And of course I'll share you my experiences...

Up the the escapement point, there's no sound. So if you just play PPP right past the escapement point, you get control of the the softest possible sound. That's why I like escapement for practicing dynamics. If you're too hesitant, you stop at the escapement.

After awhile, you learn to ignore the escapement but it's a marker. But like I said, I can't possibly feel this unless we're talking PPP or maybe the piano needs regulation.

Escapement is a little disconcerting at first because you don't know if you play through it or not. But if you look at how the grand action works, the hammer only flies after the escapement point. When you do it so slowly, the wood parts are rubbing each other just before the hammer is pushed off. That's what you feel.

So it is impossible to play a sound until you get past escapement. If there's a way, I'd certainly like to learn how

Mark, what's the advantage of playing this way (leaving very fast playing aside)? Are you trying to play detached? If I'm playing finger legato, I actually practice making sure I'm all the way to the bottom, as it ensures my finger legato is good.

You must be overlooking some of the earlier posts -- I covered this in detail.

Your problem is a completely invalid one, in my opinion. All keyboard instruments--organ, harpsichord, clavichord, fortepiano, Rhodes, digital piano, synth, controller keyboard connected to a pc running piano software, 61-key portable keyboard, etc.--are played essentially the same way and you should be able to play anything on any keyboard instrument. This is why an organist can switch to the piano and play it well with no problem. In fact, since the striking bars on a xylophone are laid out the same as the keys on a piano, a good xylophonist can sit down cold at the piano and play it well without instruction (his skill in note-reading, musical knowledge, musical memory, etc., developed on his instrument, enable him to switch to a closely related instrument like the piano with no problem). A good xylophonist can literally put an experienced pianist to shame like this. It is not uncommon for people in the US to take several yrs. of classical lessons using a 61-key unweighted portable keyboard, with no real problem. They can switch to the upright or grand in their teacher's studio with little trouble. So you should have no problem playing on any piano.

What you describe sounds like a playing problem--not an instrument problem--that is quite common. You're apparently relying too much on touch and feeling when playing on your piano at home, with the result that you have become a one-piano-only player, that is, you can play well only on your home instrument. The problem is in the way you play, not in your home piano.

Well, that settles it.


I think it's clear from the original post that this is a good and sensitive player.

He forgot accordions and key-tars, though!

Gyro, do you even know what escapement is? Have you ever felt it? Just curious.

Of course I'm happy to tell you that my new FP7F has fake escapement.

To be honest, I don't have a lot of problems while playing on other upright piano's. It's just with this Grand piano, that feels so different to me...As I told before, it's the first grand piano I tried, so I was a bit surprised by it.

I had some oppertunities to play on an organ and a harpsichord. I mostly tried some Bach on it. I can't agree with you on this one, as it is a different style of playing and technique. I wasn't too bad, but I certainly wasn't good as well. For example the plucking of the snares gives a complete different feel of touch as any piano...

I'm not sure if you can compare someone playing for a few years on a 61 key unweighted portable keyboard with me... When you do advance in piano, you have to play more subtle, phrasing is a lot more important and especially pedalling is a whole different kind of thing in more advanced pieces. So yes I noticed that when I practiced it on my own upright, it didn't came out the way I wanted it on my teachers grand piano... Hence my posting...

This is exactly what I was talking about, relying on touch and feel when you play. Hit the darned notes solidly in the right time at tempo when you play. Then you can play on any piano.

Just wanting this to be clear. So there's no such thing as dynamics then nor is there a finger legato?...

Yup! That's what the man said. Just hit them ....!

Cheers!

Well you know what Bach said, concerning the organ. Someone had complimented him and he said "Well, all you have to do is hit the right notes at the right time". Now, we all know that our friend the musical genius was just being humble. Obviously it takes much more than that to play musically (sorry, Gyro).

<<Hit the darned notes solidly in the right time at tempo when you play. Then you can play on any piano.>>

I got a good laugh reading about the crux of the thread expressed in such a precice and colorful manner.

Without finger strengh, independece and a sense of rhythm piano playing is not possible. Once these skills acquired, they can be refined to infinity. Matters of variety of touch, dynamics, agogics, etc.. are the necessary guided by the musical sesibility of the player. Oh, yes... Pianos might respond more or less faithfully to your requirements, but playing them you will certainly be able to do.

Definition: rhythm = very difficult word to type.


Uncle George

I still remember my schock and surprize when I first played a Steinway grand in a student recital. I had to use the unacoda. Unlike my upright, all the keys seem to have shifted whenever I press on the pedal (forgot the name, it's the one on the most left). While playing I was thinking that I broke the piano. I was panicking thinking how expensive that could be to pay for the repair. Also it took a large effort to continue to press it for a long section of una coda. I was using all my might to press down on the pedal using my left foot while I operate the normal pedal (the right side one) with my right foot. My face must be all red with the exertion. I asked my husband if I looked like a construction worker operating a heavy gear afterwards. He said that I looked very passionate (LOL). I felt relieved as I watched the next performer performs his piece without noticing anything strange. I did not break the expensive piano. Now i have a grand and got familiar with the grand actions (at least for my teacher's steinway and my baldwin).

After many years at the piano and other keyboard instruments, Blacky can jolly well hit the darned note solidly; he can play on any piano! I'm still trying to get him to play in tempo though. Hey Gyro, what would you do to teach Blacky to play in tempo? He's still the best pianist there is who would just hit the darn note down!

Might be just a Miniature Schanuzer, but his (small) paws can just manage Bach and Sculthorpe all the same!