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Short Reyburn CyberHammer demo #1580090
12/19/10 04:02 PM
12/19/10 04:02 PM
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Loren D Offline OP
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Shot this with my iPhone back in early September.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJlUqcR13ps


DiGiorgi Piano Service
http://www.digiorgipiano.com
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Re: Short Reyburn CyberHammer demo [Re: Loren D] #1580198
12/19/10 07:08 PM
12/19/10 07:08 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 16
Australia
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Rogert Offline
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Rogert  Offline
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Australia
Loren - I like your video..

Question - what about tuning stability ie how do you set a pin with an impact hammer??

Roger

Re: Short Reyburn CyberHammer demo [Re: Loren D] #1580209
12/19/10 07:26 PM
12/19/10 07:26 PM
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Loren D Offline OP
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Very stable. With the pin being impacted, the whole portion turns pretty much at once in the block, leaving no twist. Nearly impossible to flagpole, also.


DiGiorgi Piano Service
http://www.digiorgipiano.com
Re: Short Reyburn CyberHammer demo [Re: Loren D] #1580224
12/19/10 07:47 PM
12/19/10 07:47 PM
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Australia
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Rogert Offline
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Understand the 'not twisting the pin'. However do you still pass through being on pitch then drop back or do you go straight to pitch?

Roger

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Re: Short Reyburn CyberHammer demo [Re: Rogert] #1580254
12/19/10 08:29 PM
12/19/10 08:29 PM
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Loren D Offline OP
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I get stable results either way. If I bump right up to it and get it dead on, and can't knock it out with a couple of good sharp blows, I leave it. If I overshoot a bit and bump down to it, same thing. I was a lot more conscious of it when I first switched, but now don't really think much about it while tuning; it becomes a "feel," same way as tuning with a traditional lever.

A major difference, though, is that I no longer come home with sore arm and shoulder muscles! smile


DiGiorgi Piano Service
http://www.digiorgipiano.com
Re: Short Reyburn CyberHammer demo [Re: Loren D] #1580495
12/20/10 09:51 AM
12/20/10 09:51 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,200
Marietta, GA
Les Koltvedt Offline
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Marietta, GA
We had Dean and Nat Reyburn give a tech session at one of our recent chapter meetings. He brought a couple of hammers, both upright and grand, and we all had chance to try them out. I'm kinda leaning towards them, it felt real nice in my hand and I was very comfortable using it on uprights. It just felt natural to me. I still like the traditional hammer for grands though.


Les Koltvedt
Servicing the Greater Atlanta Area.
www.well-lovedpiano.com/atlanta-piano-technicians/
PTG Associate
Re: Short Reyburn CyberHammer demo [Re: Loren D] #1580512
12/20/10 10:38 AM
12/20/10 10:38 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
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Bradford County, PA
UnrightTooner Offline
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I have a question for impact hammer users:

Can you tell if the hammer is sometimes just twisting the pin and not moving the foot of the pin? I am sure this can be the case with light blows on a piano with a tight pinblock and low string bearing friction. The pitch would change, but the bottom of the pin would still be in the same position in the pinblock.


Jeff Deutschle
Part-Time Tuner
Who taught the first chicken how to peck?
Re: Short Reyburn CyberHammer demo [Re: Loren D] #1580535
12/20/10 11:36 AM
12/20/10 11:36 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,458
Albuquerque, NM
Cy Shuster, RPT Offline
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Yes, you can tell, by the spongy feel of the rebound. Believe me, it's rare, even on super-tight blocks. Also, the pulse tends to undo the temporary torque it puts in -- the pin rebounds from it.

And, you can still use it like a regular hammer (awkward for fine back-and-forth adjustments, though).

--Cy--


Cy Shuster, RPT
www.shusterpiano.com
Albuquerque, New Mexico
Director, PTG Norfolk 2016 Technical Institute
http://convention.ptg.org
Re: Short Reyburn CyberHammer demo [Re: Loren D] #1580566
12/20/10 12:46 PM
12/20/10 12:46 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,919
Bradford County, PA
UnrightTooner Offline
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Thanks, Cy. That's good to know! I didn't want to explain the reason for my question, but now I know that it is possible tell how the string is rendered, and render it if needed while using it as an impact hammer.

I will sometimes do something similar with a conventional hammer. By leaving the hammer a little loose on the pin, there is enough slack to “flick” the hammer back and forth. If equal "flicks" (that do not move the foot of the pin) produce equally sharp and flat pitches, then I know the foot of the pin is where it needs to be. Then it is a simple matter to render the string to the correct pitch and set the pin to neutral torque.

So now I will reconsider getting one. But let me ask something else. Typically what is the smallest amount in cents you can move the foot of the pin? And is the smallest amount larger on pinblocks with tight pins that those with ordinary tightness? I understand if you need to give generalizations. I guess what I wonder is how often it might happen that when you are close to pitch, the next impact takes you too far.


Jeff Deutschle
Part-Time Tuner
Who taught the first chicken how to peck?
Re: Short Reyburn CyberHammer demo [Re: Loren D] #1580572
12/20/10 12:58 PM
12/20/10 12:58 PM
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Loren D Offline OP
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Good questions, Jeff! With a bit of practice and getting used to it, you can move it as little as a cent or two. You develop a feel of how hard to flick as well as how big a throw (distance) to use. On super tight pins, I use the weight riser which adds about an inch to the overall length of the lever.


DiGiorgi Piano Service
http://www.digiorgipiano.com
Re: Short Reyburn CyberHammer demo [Re: Loren D] #1580578
12/20/10 01:07 PM
12/20/10 01:07 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,919
Bradford County, PA
UnrightTooner Offline
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Hmmm, a cent or two? That's twice and more of what I believe would be satisfactory. Well, depends on the bearing friction, too, I suppose.


Jeff Deutschle
Part-Time Tuner
Who taught the first chicken how to peck?
Re: Short Reyburn CyberHammer demo [Re: Loren D] #1580591
12/20/10 01:22 PM
12/20/10 01:22 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,628
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Loren D Offline OP
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Well, probably it's actually less, but let's just say that it's very easy to bump it just enough to get it that final amount where it needs to be, with no manipulation necessary after it's there..


DiGiorgi Piano Service
http://www.digiorgipiano.com
Re: Short Reyburn CyberHammer demo [Re: Loren D] #1580598
12/20/10 01:35 PM
12/20/10 01:35 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,919
Bradford County, PA
UnrightTooner Offline
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Just enough to have all RBIs trully progressive and all fourths beat faster than fifths when they share a common note on top or bottom?


Jeff Deutschle
Part-Time Tuner
Who taught the first chicken how to peck?
Re: Short Reyburn CyberHammer demo [Re: Loren D] #1580602
12/20/10 01:42 PM
12/20/10 01:42 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,628
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Loren D Offline OP
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I've not had any problems, though it does take a bit of time to het used to the technique.


DiGiorgi Piano Service
http://www.digiorgipiano.com
Re: Short Reyburn CyberHammer demo [Re: Loren D] #1580682
12/20/10 03:48 PM
12/20/10 03:48 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,828
Grand Rapids Michigan
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
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Jerry Groot RPT  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,828
Grand Rapids Michigan
Quote
We had Dean and Nat Reyburn give a tech session at one of our recent chapter meetings. He brought a couple of hammers, both upright and grand, and we all had chance to try them out. I'm kinda leaning towards them, it felt real nice in my hand and I was very comfortable using it on uprights. It just felt natural to me. I still like the traditional hammer for grands though.


Fortunately for us, Dean is a member of our PTG chapter. We've seen these hammers too. They are very nice indeed! I'm ha ha, "leaning" toward ( I love puns) purchasing one for myself sometime too. I currently have a carbon fiber hammer and my hale ones but, I think I'd like to try something different too. The carbon fiber one that I have is to darn thick! Can't see around it. Wish I had bought a skinnier one now.

I like the traditional tuning hammer too Les. Hard to change some things. I still use it too once in a while and think boy, this still feels great too!


Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.
Re: Short Reyburn CyberHammer demo [Re: Loren D] #1580922
12/20/10 09:31 PM
12/20/10 09:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,983
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CC2 and Chopin lover Offline
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After watching Loren's video I have to voice some concern. As both a Piano Technician and a Doctor of Physical Therapy, it looks as if the movement involved, which is a rapid extension of the wrist using the wrist extensor muscles of the forearm, will, if done repetitively, lead to a chronic case of lateral epicondylitis.....tennis elbow in lay terms. This is a painful and difficult to treat condition that occurs when the tendons that connect the extensor muscles of the wrist to the elbow develop microscopic tears and chronic inflammation from overuse. While I agree that the upper arm and shoulder are largely left out of the movement, I would caution you about the potential for this.


Piano Technician/Tuner
Re: Short Reyburn CyberHammer demo [Re: Loren D] #1580935
12/20/10 09:51 PM
12/20/10 09:51 PM
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Loren D Offline OP
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I'm not a doctor, but it's a pretty benign flick of the wrist that doesn't cause any soreness or strain, so I feel pretty good about it. Maybe the video makes it look exaggerated. I've always felt that repetitive stress issues, etc, are overblown anyway; people being hurt by their computer keyboards, etc. But that's just me. smile I remember being warned 25 years ago about what test tuning blows were going to do to my fingers and wrists, none of which happened.

That said, I appreciate the concern!


DiGiorgi Piano Service
http://www.digiorgipiano.com
Re: Short Reyburn CyberHammer demo [Re: Loren D] #1582114
12/22/10 12:48 PM
12/22/10 12:48 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,919
Bradford County, PA
UnrightTooner Offline
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Bradford County, PA
Oooops

Last edited by UnrightTooner; 12/22/10 02:14 PM. Reason: Posted to wrong Topic

Jeff Deutschle
Part-Time Tuner
Who taught the first chicken how to peck?
Re: Short Reyburn CyberHammer demo [Re: Loren D] #1582140
12/22/10 01:22 PM
12/22/10 01:22 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,828
Grand Rapids Michigan
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Jerry Groot RPT  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,828
Grand Rapids Michigan
Quote
After watching Loren's video I have to voice some concern. As both a Piano Technician and a Doctor of Physical Therapy, it looks as if the movement involved, which is a rapid extension of the wrist using the wrist extensor muscles of the forearm, will, if done repetitively, lead to a chronic case of lateral epicondylitis.....tennis elbow in lay terms. This is a painful and difficult to treat condition that occurs when the tendons that connect the extensor muscles of the wrist to the elbow develop microscopic tears and chronic inflammation from overuse. While I agree that the upper arm and shoulder are largely left out of the movement, I would caution you about the potential for this.


Ahh but, he should be listened to regardless because he is a doctor trying to give sound advice. It makes sense to me. I hurt enough as it is! smile Anything, repetitive creates a force on our shoulders, arms, hands, wrists and can be counter productive. I guess, that's what I want to say. smile


Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.
Re: Short Reyburn CyberHammer demo [Re: Jerry Groot RPT] #1586160
12/29/10 02:20 AM
12/29/10 02:20 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 295
Fort Collins - Loveland, CO
Jim Moy Offline
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Jim Moy  Offline
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 295
Fort Collins - Loveland, CO
I'm still a rookie at my CyberHammer, but can confirm you can indeed make sub-cent adjustments with it. I find that it is a very different set of muscle skills being learned than my smooth-pull technique, and feel like I'm learning a very different way of tuning.

I haven't seen any live demonstrations, but the Reyburns told me in a seminar they have done the "foot of the pin" experiments to verify the whole pin moves without residual twist.

As to the RSI possibilities, I feel that if I am using a number of different techniques, the less likely I will be to injure myself. There are many cases where I resort to smooth pull such as on tight pins, proximity to case parts, pins where I am more confident that way, etc., etc.

But I am very glad to have the option, and as Lorne was saying, you can't beat the comfort of the tuning position.



Jim Moy, RPT
Moy Piano Service, LLC
Fort Collins and Loveland, Colorado
http://www.moypiano.com
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