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Re: Alicia de Larrocha [Re: stores] #1583374
12/24/10 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by stores


I simply feel that there are others who are more musical pianists and are closer to my ideal.


for example?

Obviously this is a light hearted discussion. Luckily there are many wonderful pianists and we need not adopt a monotheistic approach to piano music.. But I am curious.


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Re: Alicia de Larrocha [Re: Andromaque] #1583395
12/24/10 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Andromaque
But I am curious.

So am I.

I'm not claiming that there aren't a whole slew of other pianists I admire (Leif Ove Andsnes, now there's the King of his generation), but there are several recordings of Argerich which IMO have not been surpassed, and I'll throw the Liszt B minor on the top of the pile.


Jason
Re: Alicia de Larrocha [Re: argerichfan] #1583426
12/24/10 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by argerichfan
I'm not claiming that there aren't a whole slew of other pianists I admire (Leif Ove Andsnes, now there's the King of his generation), but there are several recordings of Argerich which IMO have not been surpassed, and I'll throw the Liszt B minor on the top of the pile.
Opinions vary greatly.

For example, David Dubal, who is generally very generous with his praise for pianists, says "her Liszt Sonata is shpaeless, too fast, with the left hand often murky." He does give Argerich much prasie on other works.

Re: Alicia de Larrocha [Re: ando] #1583433
12/24/10 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by ando
Originally Posted by argerichfan

It is? But surely no match for this:





I don't think either of them can match this guy:



Claude Helffer was extraordinarily suited to Ravel's music. He had a way of blending what needs to be blended and articulating what needs to be articulated. What bothers me sometimes about both Argerich's and Larrocha's performance of Ravel is that they are too obsessed with every note. Sometimes the intention comes through better when you don't articulate so much. Even though Helffer does miss a note here and there, he gives such perfect weight to every phrase and never leaves you feeling "that was a bit odd".

Well, that's just my opinion. Claude Helffer seems to go largely unnoticed in the history of piano.




Wow! First time I think I've ever heard a mention of Helffer on any forum. I hope more people listen to him...I first got acquainted with him via his nearly peerless Xenakis recordings (its tough to be completely peerless with the Takahashi "kids" in the arena), and lately I've really enjoyed branching out into his other recordings. He's got a fine, no-nonsense touch for French music, to be sure. In some ways his playing reminds me of Paul Jacobs, another underappreciated modernist and fantastic Debussy/Ravel interpreter.

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Re: Alicia de Larrocha [Re: argerichfan] #1583462
12/24/10 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by argerichfan
Originally Posted by Andromaque
But I am curious.

So am I.



For me, immediately, Brendel, Zimerman, Sokolov, and Lupu come to mind. Don't get me wrong...I love Martha and think she's amazing, but she doesn't speak to me more often than not and I find others to be more musical.



"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $

Re: Alicia de Larrocha [Re: pianoloverus] #1583557
12/24/10 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Opinions vary greatly.

Very true.
Quote
For example, David Dubal, who is generally very generous with his praise for pianists, says "her Liszt Sonata is shpaeless, too fast, with the left hand often murky." He does give Argerich much praise on other works.

Well I do not doubt Dubal, but since you are a veteran of many master classes and live concerts, what is your take on it?


Jason
Re: Alicia de Larrocha [Re: Bech] #1583565
12/24/10 07:50 PM
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I kind of dislike Dubal.. He is a bit of a phony..

But I can't argue with Brendel, Zimmerman and Sokolov. I would add Richter, Perahia .. Nonetheless Martha live is incomparable..

Re: Alicia de Larrocha [Re: stores] #1583574
12/24/10 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by stores

For me, immediately, Brendel, Zimerman, Sokolov, and Lupu come to mind.

All incredible pianists, though I only know Brendel live, and I have to say that his all Schubert recital didn't seem to catch him in the best light. The last movement of the D845 was just slightly disappointing, was he not feeling well that evening?

Lupu, of course, is one of the greatest pianists I have ever heard, alas only on recording. My piano teacher always admired him, and spoke glowingly of this man's piano playing.

I used to spend time at my piano teacher's London home on the weekends, I was introduced to so many recordings, and this was the foundation of my knowledge and appreciation of piano music, chamber and opera.

He once played me Lupu's recording of the Brahms Eb Rhapsody, then put on Mischa Dichter's recording. There was no comparison. Dichter certainly had the piece under his hands in grand style (including that difficult Ab section), but compared to Lupu, Dichter's voicing of the chords came off more as a talented student. It was a very revealing moment for me.


Jason
Re: Alicia de Larrocha [Re: Andromaque] #1583577
12/24/10 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Andromaque
I kind of dislike Dubal. He is a bit of a phony...

Details? I have read a lot of his writings -and some I don't particularly agree with- but not sure about the 'phony' part.

But you are NYC based...


Jason
Re: Alicia de Larrocha [Re: argerichfan] #1583581
12/24/10 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by argerichfan
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Opinions vary greatly.

Very true.
Quote
For example, David Dubal, who is generally very generous with his praise for pianists, says "her Liszt Sonata is shpaeless, too fast, with the left hand often murky." He does give Argerich much praise on other works.

Well I do not doubt Dubal, but since you are a veteran of many master classes and live concerts, what is your take on it?
I've never heard her performance.

Re: Alicia de Larrocha [Re: Andromaque] #1583582
12/24/10 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Andromaque
I kind of dislike Dubal.. He is a bit of a phony..
I don't feel he is a phony, but after listening to his radio show for a while and hearing several of his lectures live I find his ultra enthusiasm too over the top. He has a way of speaking that, for me, grates on my nerves although I first enjoyed it. He also tends to read endless quotes on his radio show and in lectures.

Re: Alicia de Larrocha [Re: pianoloverus] #1583602
12/24/10 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
I've never heard her performance.


That is unforgivable! You must rectify the problem, ASAP.. She will be here in the spring.. It will probably be one of her last live appearances, at least in a non-chamber setting..

Re: Alicia de Larrocha [Re: Andromaque] #1583603
12/24/10 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Andromaque
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
I've never heard her performance.


That is unforgivable! You must rectify the problem, ASAP.. She will be here in the spring.. It will probably be one of her last live appearances, at least in a non-chamber setting..
I've heard her play live three or four times including a "half solo" recital. I haven't her play the Liszt Sonata.

She's playing solo in NYC?

Last edited by pianoloverus; 12/24/10 09:30 PM.
Re: Alicia de Larrocha [Re: Bech] #1583607
12/24/10 09:40 PM
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Andromaque and pianoluverus, what are you folks doing on the board? It's Christmas Eve, enjoy this glorious night.

Well, I'm three hours behind, time for a shower, and off to a Christmas party that I have been looking forward to, you should taste the awesome casserole I'm bringing, I am better at the stove than I am at the piano! Still, I'll probably play the 'Revolutionary', such will be the pressures, will try not to drink too much before, will make up for it later.

Hey! Liszt's glorious transcription of Schubert's Ave Maria on KING-FM. Life is wonderful. Merry Christmas!


Jason
Re: Alicia de Larrocha [Re: pianoloverus] #1583610
12/24/10 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by Andromaque
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
I've never heard her performance.


That is unforgivable! You must rectify the problem, ASAP.. She will be here in the spring.. It will probably be one of her last live appearances, at least in a non-chamber setting..
I've heard her play live three or four times including a "half solo" recital. I haven't her play the Liszt Sonata.

She's playing solo in NYC?


Ah! sorry! I misunderstood you. She hasn't played a solo recital in eons. Stage fright!!!!!!!
She is playing Beethoven's first with Seiji Ozawa, if he remains well..


Afan, it is not Christmas until midnight!!!
Parties? you mean noise, small talk, dress up (or down), cocktails.. Nah!! not tonight..

Service tomorrow at the Presby church (St Patrick, forgive me laugh ).. My friend is singing solo and she is an awesome soprano.. And the organist is really good..

Last edited by Andromaque; 12/24/10 09:53 PM.
Re: Alicia de Larrocha [Re: Andromaque] #1583617
12/24/10 10:23 PM
12/24/10 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Andromaque


Afan, it is not Christmas until midnight!!!


Time zones may differ between you two.

Re: Alicia de Larrocha [Re: Bech] #1583619
12/24/10 10:26 PM
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Thanks for that info, OSK!!! smile
Afan was aware of the time difference since he addressed us as New Yorkers, and I was responding as such, ie from GMT -6

Re: Alicia de Larrocha [Re: argerichfan] #1583626
12/24/10 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by argerichfan

Hey! Liszt's glorious transcription of Schubert's Ave Maria on KING-FM. Life is wonderful. Merry Christmas!


You should play that in the Liszt E-cital.

Re: Alicia de Larrocha [Re: Damon] #1583633
12/24/10 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Damon

You should play that in the Liszt E-cital.

Yeah right, Damon, do have any idea how HARD that is?

tiki tiki tiki

Just got out of the shower, all primped up, wearing my awesome and gorgeous Savile Row pinstripe suit (complete with suspenders), so off to the party. It is currently a balmy 50F in Seattle.

Cheers, Merry Christmas!


Jason
Re: Alicia de Larrocha [Re: argerichfan] #1583654
12/24/10 11:54 PM
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Originally Posted by argerichfan
Originally Posted by Damon

You should play that in the Liszt E-cital.

Yeah right, Damon, do have any idea how HARD that is?


I'm not sure, aren't there about 5 of them? I'm listening to one right now and it's starting it get a little tough around 5:00 but doesn't sound as hard as the revolutionary etude.

I was listening to S557d (first version, c1837)

Last edited by Damon; 12/24/10 11:56 PM. Reason: clarification
Re: Alicia de Larrocha [Re: argerichfan] #1583759
12/25/10 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by argerichfan
de Larrocha has always been problematic for me. ... I sometimes wonder if de Lorrocha wasn't pressured by Decca to record those pieces.

Yes, probably. If you judge pianists by what they usually play(ed) in public concerts, though... problem solved? smile And in all the stuff I've heard Alicia de Larrocha play (none of those big beasts mentioned that I never knew she recorded), I find her wonderful.

If you're comparing versions of Scarbo, in my opinion these two contrasting performances are on a different plane from Argerich:

Ivo Pogorelich (Japan, June 1983)


Haochen Zhang (Van Cliburn International Piano Competition, USA, June 2009)


(Used to post as SlatterFan)
Re: Alicia de Larrocha [Re: Julian_] #1583765
12/25/10 11:03 AM
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LOVE LOVE LOVE me some Pogorelich! laugh laugh

Re: Alicia de Larrocha [Re: Julian_] #1583796
12/25/10 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by SlatterFan
If you're comparing versions of Scarbo, in my opinion these two contrasting performances are on a different plane from Argerich:

Ivo Pogorelich (Japan, June 1983)
Haochen Zhang (Van Cliburn International Piano Competition, USA, June 2009)
Another one for Argerich fans. Such a tease!



-Daniel


Currently working on:
-Poulenc Trois pièces
-Liszt Harmonies du Soir
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Re: Alicia de Larrocha [Re: Goldberg] #1583797
12/25/10 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Goldberg
Originally Posted by ando

Claude Helffer was extraordinarily suited to Ravel's music. He had a way of blending what needs to be blended and articulating what needs to be articulated. What bothers me sometimes about both Argerich's and Larrocha's performance of Ravel is that they are too obsessed with every note. Sometimes the intention comes through better when you don't articulate so much. Even though Helffer does miss a note here and there, he gives such perfect weight to every phrase and never leaves you feeling "that was a bit odd".

Well, that's just my opinion. Claude Helffer seems to go largely unnoticed in the history of piano.




Wow! First time I think I've ever heard a mention of Helffer on any forum. I hope more people listen to him...I first got acquainted with him via his nearly peerless Xenakis recordings (its tough to be completely peerless with the Takahashi "kids" in the arena), and lately I've really enjoyed branching out into his other recordings. He's got a fine, no-nonsense touch for French music, to be sure. In some ways his playing reminds me of Paul Jacobs, another underappreciated modernist and fantastic Debussy/Ravel interpreter.


You have impeccable taste. wink

All of Claude Helffer's recordings on Harmonia Mundi are masterpieces. They are my most treasured piano recordings.It staggers me that he has never been discussed on this forum - he was no lightweight. If you read his history, he was a significant figure in the piano world of the 20th century.

Re: Alicia de Larrocha [Re: Bech] #1584139
12/26/10 06:18 AM
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No one has mentioned Larrocha's SOler? Those recordings are beautiful.

As for Martha, i think she s the greatest living pianist. But sometimes her personality goes on top of the music.
For example, I was listening to her Beethoven No.3 last night, with Abbado, and .... let s just say i had to play the whole concerto by Gilels and Szell after Martha's, just to erase the bad taste ...

Re: Alicia de Larrocha [Re: Julian_] #1584179
12/26/10 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by SlatterFan

If you're comparing versions of Scarbo, in my opinion these two contrasting performances are on a different plane from Argerich:



Julian, allow me to disagree..
Firstly, there is much more to listen to in Pogorelich's version than in Zhang's: far more exquisite dynamic control in the former, for one. Zhang cannot hold my attention for the near 9 minutes, superb as his playing may be.
And secondly, to my ears, I love the added aggression and raw beauty in Argerich's version. You are instantly plunged in a terrifying atmosphere and you can't let go until well past the last note has decayed..Try her in a dark room with good speakers..

Re: Alicia de Larrocha [Re: izaldu] #1584362
12/26/10 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by izaldu
... let s just say i had to play the whole concerto by Gilels and Szell after Martha's, just to erase the bad taste ...

Really? That recording was critically acclaimed. Sorry it didn't mesh with you.


Jason
Re: Alicia de Larrocha [Re: Andromaque] #1584392
12/26/10 04:02 PM
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I am sorry to admit that Zhang's playing (in the recital I heard him give, and what I've seen on YouTube) never ceases to impress me, but he doesn't seem to move me as much as the other examples in this thread (I did thoroughly enjoy his Ginastera sonata Op. 22, which was on the quick side compared to many other interpretations of it).

In fact, I personally enjoyed Yeou Eum Son's playing a little more (I saw her perform live, too).

I will listen to Argerich play Beethoven 3 now.

Re: Alicia de Larrocha [Re: argerichfan] #1584460
12/26/10 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by argerichfan
That recording was critically acclaimed. Sorry it didn't mesh with you.


Critics rarely mesh with me. That said, I've not ever heard this particular recording. I have heard Martha with Beethoven, but she's not my idea of a Beethovenian.



"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $

Re: Alicia de Larrocha [Re: Bech] #1584718
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I was listening to her rendition of La Vega, and found it really good!!

I'm planning to play that piece this summer along with the Liszt sonata....and hopefully make a good impression.


Working on:
Chopin - Nocturne op. 48 no.1
Debussy - Images Book II

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