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Re: Cortot's "Rational principles for pianoforte technique"
fnork #1583694 12/25/10 04:03 AM
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Great links, thanks!



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Music is my best friend.


Re: Cortot's "Rational principles for pianoforte technique"
feebeeliszt #1583793 12/25/10 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by feebee_liszt
I have got the first one but it was in French. Thanks for posting this version!!! Did Cortot write anything for Chopin Op. 25 Etudes?

Yes. I got the Op.25 a few months ago. It is similar to Op.10 in that there are execises for each Etude. Cortot also wrote similar 'study' versions for many of Chopin's compositions: Waltzes, Nocturnes (in 2 volumes), Preludes, Scherzi, Impromptus, etc. I have collected most of them - and yes, in English translation. I find them very useful. I tend to lean towards his editions because my first' good' teacher studied with Cortot.

As far as the 'Transferable Table' from the 'Rational Principles...', it is a double-sided sheet of transpositions, rhythms, and different chord configurations to use with some of the exercises. In my opinion if one did 1/100 of what he suggests you'd spend half your life doing exercises.


Jose
Kawai K5 - Kawai CA61
Re: Cortot's "Rational principles for pianoforte technique"
JGonzalezGUS #1583808 12/25/10 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by JGonzalezGUS
[...]In my opinion if one did 1/100 of what [Cortot] suggests you'd spend half your life doing exercises.


That's my feeling about the exercises accompanying both books of the Etudies, too. One needs to be selective, I guess.

Regards,


BruceD
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Re: Cortot's "Rational principles for pianoforte technique"
fnork #1583818 12/25/10 01:42 PM
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I'd love to have the Op.25. Please do post a link if you guys come across one. Thanks.

Re: Cortot's "Rational principles for pianoforte technique"
Iain #1583845 12/25/10 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Iain
Quote
Originally posted by Gyro:
I'm not familiar with the book, but from what
I know of Cortot he apparently hit a lot of
wrong notes, which indicates technical deficiency,
so I would be wary about technical exercises
devised by him. However, his interpretation
was terrific, so if there are exercises that
stress things like rhythm, contrast,
variety, etc., these might be useful.
Well, that really is only with modern ears. Don't forget that most recordings these days are heavily edited, including very famous recordings (the Pollini Petrouchka comes to mind). This is why turkeys say that pianists from before 1950 made so many mistakes.

The reality about Cortot is that he was no more inaccurate than somebody like Richter (listen to his live recordings!!!) and people would drool over any Richter exercises available.


Hahaha...ummm no. Cortot was notorious for wrong notes and with good reason as they abound aplenty. You're certainly correct about modern recordings being submitted to heavy editing, and Cortot was definitely no slouch (phenomenal, in fact), but the wrong notes are there.



"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

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Re: Cortot's "Rational principles for pianoforte technique"
fnork #1583972 12/25/10 08:07 PM
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To my listening experience, Richter's live recordings- and they are many- have nowhere near the number of mistakes I hear in Cortot's.
Not to diminish Cortot.. Just a factoid..Others disagree?


Re: Cortot's "Rational principles for pianoforte technique"
liszt85 #1702501 06/26/11 05:02 PM
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@Liszt85:
I know this is VERY late, but I came across a link
Chopin Etude Op.25, Cortot (English)

(I am posting this because I believe this particular edition is no longer being sold. If I have violated any rights, please let me know and I'll remove the link.)

Last edited by azandj; 06/26/11 05:03 PM.

Home piano: Yamaha P2 upright
Re: Cortot's "Rational principles for pianoforte technique"
azandj #1702515 06/26/11 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by azandj
@Liszt85:
I know this is VERY late, but I came across a link
Chopin Etude Op.25, Cortot (English)

(I am posting this because I believe this particular edition is no longer being sold. If I have violated any rights, please let me know and I'll remove the link.)


Better late than never.. Thanks! smile I think I found it elsewhere sometime back, but I'm not sure, so I'll download this.



Re: Cortot's "Rational principles for pianoforte technique"
azandj #1702561 06/26/11 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by azandj
@Liszt85:
I know this is VERY late, but I came across a link
Chopin Etude Op.25, Cortot (English)

(I am posting this because I believe this particular edition is no longer being sold. If I have violated any rights, please let me know and I'll remove the link.)


YOU ARE AWESOME! Thank you! smile


The notes I handle no better than many pianists. But the pauses between the notes - ah, that is where the art resides! - Schnabel
Re: Cortot's "Rational principles for pianoforte technique"
fnork #1702566 06/26/11 07:57 PM
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Thanks feebeeliszt smile Glad I could be of help


Home piano: Yamaha P2 upright
Re: Cortot's "Rational principles for pianoforte technique"
fnork #1702623 06/26/11 10:10 PM
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I don't know of this book, but I have two things to say:

1. YAY BRENDAN IS BACK!!!
2. After listening to how he plays Saint-Saens' "Etude en forme de valse", I would listen to anything he had to say about technique. ha

Re: Cortot's "Rational principles for pianoforte technique"
fnork #1702680 06/27/11 12:22 AM
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The most amazing virtuosos I met (who for example played magnifically Scarbo at 13 years old), do and practice music and never practice those type of exercices. Tonight at a discussion at Piano Texas with Leon Fleisher he said that technique should be there to express your musical idea. If you have something musical to express, even if you hit a wrong note it will not matter as much as if you are a pianist only trying to play the notes perfectly. You need first to hear your music in your head before you sit at the piano, then the fingers will serve you.

Last edited by 25th hour; 06/27/11 12:23 AM.
Re: Cortot's "Rational principles for pianoforte technique"
25th hour #1702708 06/27/11 01:16 AM
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Horowitz said that he was opposed to Hanon and Czerny, but admitted that he often devises exercises of his own to work out technical problems. That view may sound contradictory, as Horowitz was denouncing the mechanical exercises of others while creating mechanical exercises of his own. Nevertheless, I think it shows that focused exercises can give you more pianistic ease, which should facilitate your ability to play expressively.


Recent Repertoire:
Liszt: Concerto #1 in Eb https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dY9Qw8Z7ao
Bach: Partita #2 in c minor
Beethoven: Sonata #23 in f minor, Opus 57 ("Appassionata")
Chopin: Etudes Opus 25 #6,9,10,11,12
Prokofiev: Sonata #3 in a minor
Suggestion diabolique
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