Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Adult Beginners Forum Problem with switching between chords

Hello, I'm trying to play Silent Night. Many of you probably know how the beginning usually is, after the short prelude sometimes played, the song begins with the progression EG (dotted quarter notes) - FA (eight notes) - EG (quarter notes) and ends on CE - dotted half notes. All played in the middle C octave.

But this arrangement adds a dotted quarter C, in the first bar, which contains the EG-FA-EG progression. So it actually alternates between a C and F chord, broken. The song is in 3/4 time as you probably know. This means I have to hold the C while playing the EG-FA-EG.

I find it very hard, my fingers kind of freeze because of the tension in the pinky holding the C. Is this common, just a question of practising this?

I will add an image of those two measures if I can work out how to add images to the Pianoworld server.

I think I get what you're saying. What happens when you play the upper 3rds without the held C? Is your thumb tense and sticking up or out while the other fingers are playing?

It is hard. Can you change it to CEG-CFA-CEG? That will make it much easier? Do you have a particular reason for sticking literally to the score as written?

One other thought - you might need to tilt your hand at a slight angel to make it work. I'm assuming you use 542-31-42 fingering for what you described? Our fingers are not designed to be stretched at a horizontal plane. You can play large intervals at ease with a slight tilt. There is a masterclass on this. If I find out the link, I'll post it for you.

Morodiene, it is easier to skip the C at the bottom. Let me also note (pianoist d'amore) that this is played with the right hand. I tried 1-2-4 for the C chord and 1-3-5 for the F chord. If I use the normal 1-3-5 for the C major chord the piece doesn't flow as desired, not enough legato, when changing to the F.

It's easier to play just the chords. I believe it sounds very good according to this arrangement. It's from Dan Coates, Great Piano Christmas Hits, this piece doesn't seem too hard, although some of the other ones in the book are. Maybe I'll try the piece tonight with CEG - FA - EG - CE, should work that way.

"C with the pinky" means in the left hand, isn't it ? If it's one dotted note, it means it's not restruck while the other fingers move... maybe you could try restriking all 3 if that's not musically improper ?

For this I'd use a wide-fingered 321, not a 531. The 3 doesn't strain as much.
(I use 321 for all close-fingered/inverted LH chords: CEG, CFA, BDG. 123 for the same in RH)

My cure would be to forget Silent Night and learn to play Rudolf Red Nosed Reindeer

Yes, but my question was when you are not playing the C at the bottom, what is your thumb doing while the other fingers are playing? Is there tension in the thumb when it's not playing?

Sorry ROMagister, my English failed me, meant to say C with the thumb. This is played with the right hand, have never seen Silent Night played where left hand plays melody, usually just some bass support. But what do you say about fingering CEG = 124 and CFA = 135? Regardless of whether you play just the chords or sustain the C through the whole bar.

Morodiene, the thumb just sticks out horizontally not knowing what to do! That is if I skip the C and let the EG-FA-EG progression do the job. I wouldn't say there is much tension in my thumb, it's not completely relaxed, but not too tense.

AG, I could if Rudolph was any easier, it just seems harder, at least in this same book that has SN!

I cannot visualize how you'd do the 321 chord fingering without twisting your wrist. I thought (please correct me if I'm wrong) that we need to try to minimize twisting of the wrists as much as possible (sometimes we have to depending on the music)??? if that's true, then it doesn't seem like 321 would be a preferred fingering...

I think you'd have to take this in steps:
Step One, try to do the 124-135 tension free WITHOUT MOVING YOUR HAND/WRIST.
Step Two, you use your thumb as a pivot when you do the 24-35 switch while holding down the thumb. That's how I would play it. I know it's counter-intuitive since you want the perfect legato, but because you're pivoting on the thumb, the weight center of your hand does not shift much, which you can actually switch very swiftly and smoothly. If I go directly after legato and try to achieve it with purely finger movements, I'd build up a lot of tensions. So this has been a good trade-off for me.
Step Three, if you really want perfect legato, you can pick up Hanon No. 50 or some other similar technical exercise that focuses on double thirds, which is not typically included in the teaching of beginner students. But if that's your goal, by all means go for it. It's a good skill to have.

Thank you pianoist d'amore, these tips are worth trying out. I can tell you I tried tilting my hand as you suggested earlier and it worked much better.

OK, that's what I suspected. Try to play the first two notes (EG) without the C, and then hold it down as you relax the thumb. Then move on to the FA, and hold that down as you relax the thumb, then back to the EG, relax thumb. Obviously, this must go very slowly, and don't worry about the dotted rhythm just yet. Take as much time as you need to relax the thumb after playing the upper notes and holding them down. Once you can do this fairly well, you can try to gradually speed up the tempo, making sure you maintain the relaxed thumb. When you can do that, then play the C and hold it while you play the upper notes, but be sure that you are only holding down the C with minimal pressure to keep the key down. You need not continually press hard after initially playing the note. Keep relaxing the thumb (while it's held down) in between playing the upper notes.

Hope this makes sense.

Do you mean I should first practice the progression without the C, but focus on keeping the free thumb completely relaxed? Then, when I can do that, I should add the bottom C to the package, but continue keeping the thumb relaxed, that is not pressing the C very hard?

Yes!

Good, thanks for taking the time to explain this.