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Re: DP midi playback comparison [Re: tinybox] #1578019
12/16/10 03:03 PM
12/16/10 03:03 PM
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Posts: 448
Hamburg, Germany
Martin C. Doege Offline
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Hamburg, Germany
Yamaha P-85; Grand Piano 1:

http://www.box.net/shared/6p390qpqyv


Yamaha P-85; Pianoteq Pleyel
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Re: DP midi playback comparison [Re: tinybox] #1578642
12/17/10 10:31 AM
12/17/10 10:31 AM
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Posts: 204
Italy
Erard Offline
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Italy
... and an interesting AP version.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ke5gsIR1UPQ


Yamaha C3M - Kawai Novus - VSL CFX & Steinway D - Garritan CFX - Pianoteq Pro - American Concert D - Ravenscroft 275
PC -> Sonarworks Reference 4 -> RME Babyface Pro -> Schiit Yggdrasil + Jotunheim -> Sennheiser HD650 & HD800
Re: DP midi playback comparison [Re: tinybox] #1579271
12/18/10 07:58 AM
12/18/10 07:58 AM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,164
Sydney, Australia
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sullivang Offline
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They all sound good, eh? The BDMO sounded a bit too mellow for the forte notes for my taste though.

Greg.


Re: DP midi playback comparison [Re: tinybox] #1579339
12/18/10 10:42 AM
12/18/10 10:42 AM
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tinybox Offline OP
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Thanks for the new files Martin smile

Eerard, nice AP version. Young player :-O

sullivang, I think the volume level of the BDMO is a bit low. I'll see if I can get a higher volume version.


And if anyone has an idea on other midi files to use I would happily up them to the site and record them with the Kawai MP10. Maybe something aimed at EP's?

Last edited by tinybox; 12/18/10 10:43 AM.
Re: DP midi playback comparison [Re: tinybox] #1579364
12/18/10 11:58 AM
12/18/10 11:58 AM
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Posts: 110
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PianoMan51 Offline
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Hi guys. The BDMO is mine. I added it to the list because it's a different sounding piano, and I thought it might be interesting as a comparison.

The BDMO is quite mellow sounding, compared to Steinway, Yamaha or Bosendoerfer. The 'bite' in the louder samples is there, but at a lower frequency.

This is an extremely dynamic piano, and I recorded it at the original dynamics. I don't normally play or record it like this because if you set the loudest velocities to play back as loud as a real piano would be, the softest velocities tend to sink into the noise floor of any but the quietest rooms.

I also did not normalize the audio prior to converting into MP3 because the result was distortion at the high levels.

Re: DP midi playback comparison [Re: tinybox] #1579389
12/18/10 01:05 PM
12/18/10 01:05 PM
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Mavs972 Offline
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Alicia's Keys recorded with the small concert hall preset

http://www.box.net/shared/3jclnvx8uv

The Vintage D Concert preset

http://www.box.net/shared/nvz1dhipus

PMI Bosendorfer Dry 8 layer Basic

http://www.box.net/shared/n0yuvxcn40

Last edited by Mavs972; 12/18/10 02:00 PM.
Re: DP midi playback comparison [Re: Mavs972] #1579521
12/18/10 04:55 PM
12/18/10 04:55 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,164
Sydney, Australia
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sullivang Offline
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Can anyone else hear a slightly awkward sounding "crushed" note in the Alicia Keys, at time 3s and 11s? I haven't noticed this characteristic in any of the others yet. Sounds great in general though.

Greg.

Re: DP midi playback comparison [Re: Kawai James] #1581145
12/21/10 05:50 AM
12/21/10 05:50 AM
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Posts: 483
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Rimmer Offline
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Good point. Furthermore, the recordings of the two instruments were created using different methods, making it largely impossible to perform an objective side-by-side comparison.

I would also suggest that the FP-7F clip be re-recorded, playing back the MIDI file that was dumped into Logic. This should ensure that both instruments are receiving exactly the same performance data.

Cheers,
James
x


For what it's worth, I compared the internal song and the played back midi file I recorded out of the FP-7F and it sounded identical. I was quite thorough with that. I don't mind doing it again but I don't feel it will make any difference.

As far as using an MP3 to compare, soo many people on here said they sound identical (which I would disagree with considering the options for the MP3 to be encoded badly with either poor settings or a bad encoder). I personally don't like the thought of using MP3 as a critical listening file at all. I would observe the level at which the bounced material is recorded and correct, if need be, with a reliable normalising routine..

Regards. Rimmer

Re: DP midi playback comparison [Re: tinybox] #1581146
12/21/10 05:54 AM
12/21/10 05:54 AM
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Rimmer Offline
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Originally Posted by tinybox

James point about all units receiving the same midi data is very valid because we don't know how much was skipped in Rolands export procedure, so I believe this is a good idea.


I didn't use any form of midi export from Roland. I literally used Logic to 'listen' to the midi output of the FP-7F as it played the song. I had to enable this in the menu.

In this case, I believe that the midi data being sent to the piano's sound module (as it were) is the same data being sent out of the midi port on the back of the machine. I literally streamed that in to Logic down the midi cable.

Regards. Rimmer

[EDIT]... I've uploaded another file to my online drive that is the midi file played straight out of Logic which is controlling the FP-7F remotely, via midi. The only difference in the file is that it doesn't contain the Logic Reverb Plugin, rather a touch of built in FP-7F reverb.. I have PM'd tinybox with this information so hopefully he will be able to download the file and then replace the one I provided him originally. Get it HERE

Re: DP midi playback comparison [Re: tinybox] #1581166
12/21/10 07:28 AM
12/21/10 07:28 AM
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Posts: 483
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Rimmer Offline
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Originally Posted by tinybox
Thanks for the new files Martin smile

Eerard, nice AP version. Young player :-O

sullivang, I think the volume level of the BDMO is a bit low. I'll see if I can get a higher volume version.


And if anyone has an idea on other midi files to use I would happily up them to the site and record them with the Kawai MP10. Maybe something aimed at EP's?


Same here. I've trawled the net looking for decent piano mids and some of them are, well... awful.. Some of them sound quantised or simply played badly or seemingly without feel. I'm sure there are some people on here that would be able to play something lovely and then post it out as a midi file??

The EP's in the FP-7F aren't great but I do have the Scarbee (NI) Vintage Keys plugin for Kontakt which sounds great (loads better than the FP's internal EP's). I'd happily send a few of those your way..!

Regards. Rimmer

Re: DP midi playback comparison [Re: tinybox] #1581181
12/21/10 08:10 AM
12/21/10 08:10 AM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,164
Sydney, Australia
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sullivang Offline
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Posts: 3,164
Sydney, Australia
Maybe a few different medleys, concentrating on well known snippets of famous works, in various genres? Get a good player to prepare this. (not me!) This might be an efficient way of auditinioning......

GReg.

Re: DP midi playback comparison [Re: tinybox] #1581395
12/21/10 02:03 PM
12/21/10 02:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 204
Italy
Erard Offline
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Italy
Here is a site with lots of midi files taken from a Yamaha disklavier during the international piano e-competition.
Click on a contestant name and then right-click/Save target as... (on a PC with IE) on an underlined piece to save the midi file to your local disk drive.
This is real playing from good pianists (classical music only). Very useful for testing purpose.

http://www.piano-e-competition.com/finalists.htm

Last edited by Erard; 12/21/10 02:04 PM.

Yamaha C3M - Kawai Novus - VSL CFX & Steinway D - Garritan CFX - Pianoteq Pro - American Concert D - Ravenscroft 275
PC -> Sonarworks Reference 4 -> RME Babyface Pro -> Schiit Yggdrasil + Jotunheim -> Sennheiser HD650 & HD800
Re: DP midi playback comparison [Re: Erard] #1581494
12/21/10 04:24 PM
12/21/10 04:24 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 483
United Kingdom
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Rimmer Offline
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Rimmer  Offline
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Originally Posted by Erard
Here is a site with lots of midi files taken from a Yamaha disklavier during the international piano e-competition.
Click on a contestant name and then right-click/Save target as... (on a PC with IE) on an underlined piece to save the midi file to your local disk drive.
This is real playing from good pianists (classical music only). Very useful for testing purpose.

http://www.piano-e-competition.com/finalists.htm


Nice one.. !!!!!!!! whome

Re: DP midi playback comparison [Re: tinybox] #1581546
12/21/10 05:48 PM
12/21/10 05:48 PM
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Posts: 54
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tinybox Offline OP
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I replaced the Roland FP-7F WAV with Rimmers new version.

Rimmer pointed out that the files could be better normalized and I'm starting to think that we maybe should have a lossless rule so that I can normalize all the incoming files so they will be easier to compare. What do you think?


Mavs972: Are all three files from Alicia's Keys?

Eerard: Thanks for the link, I will check it out as soon as.. well, Christmas is over and I get my life back ;-)

Re: DP midi playback comparison [Re: tinybox] #1581573
12/21/10 06:44 PM
12/21/10 06:44 PM
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Posts: 52
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Mavs972 Offline
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No,they're all different.

Re: DP midi playback comparison [Re: tinybox] #1581939
12/22/10 06:09 AM
12/22/10 06:09 AM
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Posts: 483
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Rimmer Offline
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I've submitted two more to tinybox..

1. The Steinway from the EastWest Orchestral Silver Library.

2. Logics EXS24 sampler Grand Piano.

I can probably pull out a few more from here and there but all my synth stuff is at my rehearsal studio so it will take some time. I have an Yamaha EX5R which i'd like to include as it's getting on a bit (and doesn't sound that great really..)..

It would be nice to do an EP one of these at some point as well. I have the Scarbee Vintage Keys plugin that i'd like to post some examples of but we'll need a decent EP type midi file for that.. Any offers???

Regards. Rimmer

Re: DP midi playback comparison [Re: tinybox] #1582370
12/22/10 07:02 PM
12/22/10 07:02 PM
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Posts: 54
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tinybox Offline OP
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I've added some new files from Mavs972 and Rimmer, thanks! smile

And I've come to realize that requiring lossless formats is a good thing wink So please only send that if you can. See first post in this thread for info on this.


Re: DP midi playback comparison [Re: tinybox] #1582400
12/22/10 07:36 PM
12/22/10 07:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 824
Germany
hpeterh Offline
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hpeterh  Offline
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Posts: 824
Germany
Nocturne No 20 Galaxy IIK4 Blüthner Baby Grand.
Iused the setting "German Baby Grand" but enabled all Noises and Effects and adjusted the noises to match the pedal characteristic.
Also reduced dynamics by about 15%.

http://hphsite.de/Galaxy/NocturneNo20GalaxyBabyGrand.mp3

Thats a first attempt and could be improved, but I like it very much.
The Wav file should be here:
http://www.2shared.com/audio/SDMXPGlk/NocturneNo20GalaxyBabyGrand.html
The MP3 here:
http://www.2shared.com/audio/VbEPIEzO/NocturneNo20GalaxyBabyGrand.html

Never before used this service, hope it works.
Look to the lower right corner of the opening site and click "click here". Dont click the big advertisement ;-)


@Rimmer: Thank you. Which error do you get on download?

It finally turned out that this exceeds my file quota, so I used a public upload service.

Last edited by hpeterh; 12/22/10 09:42 PM.

1929 Galaxy Blüthner Baby Grand
acer aspire m3300 AMD Phenom II X6

Re: DP midi playback comparison [Re: hpeterh] #1582418
12/22/10 08:06 PM
12/22/10 08:06 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 483
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Rimmer Offline
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Posts: 483
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Originally Posted by hpeterh
Nocturne No 20 Galaxy IIK4 Blüthner Baby Grand.
Iused the setting "German Baby Grand" but enabled all Noises and Effects and adjusted the noises to match the pedal characteristic.
Also reduced dynamics by about 15%.

http://hphsite.de/Galaxy/NocturneNo20GalaxyBabyGrand.mp3

Thats a first attempt and could be improved, but I like it very much.

P.S.
Im currently unable to upload the WAV. This is 60MB and needs 10 Minutes and I get a FTP error while uploading. Maybe I need a better FTP client than explorer.
Anyway, I am not sure if I want to do this... ;-)


Link isn't loading for me..

If you want to upload, then you can upload to my drive if you want. It takes a while but once it's done it's done..

Cheers for the effort..!

Merry Christmas.. Rimmer

Re: DP midi playback comparison [Re: Rimmer] #1584333
12/26/10 02:02 PM
12/26/10 02:02 PM
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I don't want this thread to die at the mo. It could grow in to bigger things.. Just a Christmas bump basically...!!!!


Regards. Rimmer

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