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Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: dewster] #1573857 12/10/10 09:06 AM
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The Sound Focus feature seems like a combination of compression and EQ just as you observed. However, I think most users are interpreting the use of this control differently from Roland's intentions.

Under normal cirumstances to stand out in a live band performance or in a recording the audio engineer would increase the value of the mixer slider for the NX. The Roland NX video mentions using Sound Focus in an "ensemble" setting. This description has me wondering if the video actually means Sound Focus is intended for settings with quieter types of music than rock or mainstream popular music. The owner's manual documents how Sound Focus affects various tone parameters. The way Sound Focus works is complex and subtle, which again leads me to think this control is intended for performances where sound amplification is minimal or nonexistent.

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Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: dewster] #1574110 12/10/10 03:28 PM
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Slightly off topic, yet still applies a bit I suppose, but I received my RPU-3 last night, and it's an amazing little addition to my GXF. Just makes playing the GXF that much more fun, and more and more authentic (for an stage piano). If I had kept the NX, and I didn't have the RPU-3 on order, I would certainly order one. As well, for all of you RD700SX, RD700GX, RD700GXF, and RD700NX owners who don't have the RPU-3, it's worthy upgrade. Great half pedaling, really nice damper, and great sostenuto pedaling as well. It does provide much more control over the dynamics, which is really important to a lot of us. The K-RD700GX1 SN upgrade helped leaps and bounds with the playability of the GX, and the RPU-3 really re-enforces that. I noticed a bigger difference on the SN pianos than on the standard pianos. Could have just been my ears. confused

Last edited by PianoZac; 12/10/10 03:31 PM.

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Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: dewster] #1574169 12/10/10 04:41 PM
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If Dewster gives the NX the thumbs up, Roland should exploit that in their marketing. I can just see the glossy full page ad in Keyboard Mag now: "Even Dewster likes it". ;^)

Greg.

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: dewster] #1574188 12/10/10 05:17 PM
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dewster Offline OP
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Well, without ever having laid on one, I can tell you there are things I pre-hate about it already. The joystick should be moved from the keybed area, or removed altogether, and the case shortened and lightened. It lacks a music rest, which is a rather large omission. Not being able to render a MIDI file to WAV is another. Speakers, even crappy ones, would have been useful. If the FP-7F proves to have a SN harpsichord and the NX doesn't, I'll cry. If the NX had a SN pipe organ I'd be jumping for joy.

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: dewster] #1574192 12/10/10 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by dewster
Well, without ever having laid on one, I can tell you there are things I pre-hate about it already. The joystick should be moved from the keybed area, or removed altogether, and the case shortened and lightened. It lacks a music rest, which is a rather large omission. Not being able to render a MIDI file to WAV is another. Speakers, even crappy ones, would have been useful. If the FP-7F proves to have a SN harpsichord and the NX doesn't, I'll cry. If the NX had a SN pipe organ I'd be jumping for joy.


I don't think the pipe organ is SN but it sounds great grin


Now: RD-700NX
Someday: Steinway concert grand :|
Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: dewster] #1574227 12/10/10 06:04 PM
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"Introducing the Roland RD-700NX. Dewster likes certain aspects of it. And that's saying something"

(sorry I'll go now)

Greg.

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: sullivang] #1574248 12/10/10 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by sullivang
"Introducing the Roland RD-700NX. Dewster likes certain aspects of it. And that's saying something"

Ha! I guess I'm the Mr. Cranky of DPs. Sorry for being such a negative vibe merchant - my expectations (to me anyway) don't seem all that high.

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: dewster] #1574274 12/10/10 07:22 PM
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sullivang Offline
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Nah, I don't think you have unrealistically high expectations at all, but yes, you do have a bit of a reputation, and I'm just having a bit of a lend of you. smile

Greg.

Last edited by sullivang; 12/10/10 07:25 PM.
Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: dewster] #1574491 12/11/10 04:15 AM
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Originally Posted by dewster
Sorry for being such a negative vibe merchant - my expectations (to me anyway) don't seem all that high.


Ooh I think you work pretty hard on your Mr Cranky image, D - after all, an avatar that suggests you suck lemons all day long isn't the best way to start an upbeat thread smile

Seriously, though, some of your expectations, to me at least, do seem a bit out of kilter.

For example, I'm not sure why you're so keen on a "SN pipe organ" sound on the RD series. If you're a serious organist, surely you won't want to play that sort of sound on a piano-weighted action?

Any serious organist is going to buy a proper instrument for home practice, not use something clearly marked as a "stage piano". Roland realise this and thus the pipe organ sound is not a priority for them on the RDs.

Finally, something to remember when that NX arrives and you start growling with dissatisfaction – the current crop of top-end DPs are in reality all much better than a substantial amount of the "real pianos" out there, as this post of mine on another forum reflects.




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Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: mah115] #1574523 12/11/10 05:33 AM
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Originally Posted by mah115
Received my NX today; and I love it.
I paid $2099 for it at RMC Audio Direct


That's sound not only unbelievable but also frustrating to me. Here in Italy the price is around 2.300/2.400 euro (more than 3.000 USD).

thomann.de price isn't different

frown



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Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: Qbert] #1574614 12/11/10 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Qbert
Originally Posted by mah115
Received my NX today; and I love it.
I paid $2099 for it at RMC Audio Direct


That's sound not only unbelievable but also frustrating to me. Here in Italy the price is around 2.300/2.400 euro (more than 3.000 USD).

thomann.de price isn't different

frown



The value added tax (19-25%) explains most of the difference. The sales tax in US is much lower and most online purchases are not taxed.

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: dewster] #1574638 12/11/10 10:08 AM
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Most products have always been cheaper in the US and will remain cheaper for some time to come. Until the rest of the world stops sponsoring the American consumer habits and/or until the US government finally understand that you cannot close the budget deficit hole and provide for good social coverage, infrastructure etc for your citizens unless you raise taxes in some respect. Sorry for this side hit (correct English?), but it bothers many people outside the US; seems that on certain products companies loose a lot of money just to maintain/gain market share in the US and grab that money back by way overpricing their products in other parts of the world like the EU. And the rest is sponsoring our governments of course...

I hope I didn't start a war with this remark ;-)

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: dewster] #1574664 12/11/10 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by dewster
If the FP-7F proves to have a SN harpsichord and the NX doesn't, I'll cry. If the NX had a SN pipe organ I'd be jumping for joy.


I think one of the pipe organs in the FP-7F is pretty impressive. Nothing quite like the real thing but we know that already. I have the EastWest Silver library which has a very decent Pipe organ sound which I think sounds more authentic than the FP-7's but there isn't that much in it. Granted, i'm somewhat doing this from memory..!

Congrats on the NX by the way. I think it was the inevitable place for you to end up..

Regards. Rimmer

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: Aidan] #1574670 12/11/10 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Aidan
... after all, an avatar that suggests you suck lemons all day long isn't the best way to start an upbeat thread smile

That avatar does kind of browbeat one. OK, changed to a non-threatening piece of toast.

Originally Posted by Aidan
If you're a serious organist, surely you won't want to play that sort of sound on a piano-weighted action?

My wife plays for a local small church and so often uses the pipe organ and string sounds. I love it when she plays Bach, and it would be fantastic if Roland would toss at least a small configurable positive organ in there - they already have the samples just laying around. I don't get why there aren't more keyboards aimed at church pianists / keyboardists.

Originally Posted by Aidan
... the current crop of top-end DPs are in reality all much better than a substantial amount of the "real pianos" out there...

Fifteen years ago or so I was in a piano store pawing the used stuff while my wife was shopping methods and sheets. I happened upon a tiny cheap (~$100) spinet with the lightest action I think I've ever encountered. It didn't sound anything like a piano, but it didn't sound all that bad either, like some different kind of instrument altogether. I still think about that instrument now and then - for all its faults it was very organic and real, much realer than any DP.

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: dewster] #1575144 12/12/10 05:28 AM
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Originally Posted by dewster
It lacks a music rest, which is a rather large omission.

Lack of a music rest is annoying. I guess they figured that anyone worthy of playing their flagship keyboard would be so good they wouldn't need sheet music. I think I'll bend myself a clip-on stand out of coat hanger wire, covered with a silicone tube to prevent scratching the case.
The sticky pedal issue seems to have gone away. Maybe it just needed to be broken in. The sticky key is a bit less sticky now, it comes back up but there's still a bit more friction. But I don't think I'll ever use the highest key anyway, so I'm not in a rush to get it fixed (although I probably will eventually).
Originally Posted by dewster
My wife plays for a local small church and so often uses the pipe organ and string sounds. I love it when she plays Bach, and it would be fantastic if Roland would toss at least a small configurable positive organ in there - they already have the samples just laying around. I don't get why there aren't more keyboards aimed at church pianists / keyboardists.

I'm a bit disappointed with the organs; it wish that they were more configurable. The organ is essentially a 17th century synthesizer, so I want to be able to adjust the stops and add a pedal board. But I suppose Roland wants to sell the C-330...
Originally Posted by Aidan
... the current crop of top-end DPs are in reality all much better than a substantial amount of the "real pianos" out there...

The RD-700NX is certainly better than my old Yamaha upright that could only play notes forte and fortissimo.
Originally Posted by ClassicalMastery
The Sound Focus feature seems like a combination of compression and EQ just as you observed.

Here's the default piano tone without and then with Sound Focus [edit: SF set to max. It's a knob you can adjust.].
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15297977/SoundFocus.mp3
It distorts to sound to make it sound more "in your head" I guess...

Last edited by mah115; 12/12/10 02:20 PM.
Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: dewster] #1575149 12/12/10 05:59 AM
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RE: that Sound Focus demo, it sounds mono with Sound Focus on!!! Did something go wrong? Yuck!! smile

Greg.

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: dewster] #1575184 12/12/10 08:43 AM
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Ehi, very nice! How can they get this effect?
confused


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Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: mah115] #1575196 12/12/10 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by mah115
Here's the default piano tone without and then with Sound Focus.

Is that with the Sound Focus set to max? It does sound like the stereo field has been substantially collapsed and the result compressed, which is maybe what you want when sharing a PA with other musicians.

They must have put this feature in so as to staunch the endless whining I read about the RD-700GX "not cutting through the mix". Probably not needed so much for solo performance.

My main issue with it is that it stole a knob and switch from the effects section.

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: mah115] #1575198 12/12/10 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by mah115
I'm a bit disappointed with the organs; it wish that they were more configurable. The organ is essentially a 17th century synthesizer, so I want to be able to adjust the stops and add a pedal board. But I suppose Roland wants to sell the C-330...

Sometimes I wish that Roland would dangerously skirt going belly-up. Like Kurzweil, this might force them to dump all their samples in a "kitchen sink" single keyboard, thus eliminating internal competition between models and finally giving us what we want.

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: dewster] #1575405 12/12/10 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by dewster

Is that with the Sound Focus set to max?
Yeah, that's set to max. I think it's pretty much the same as the compressor but normalizes the volume, so I agree that the knob is better off linked to an effect.

Does anybody know what the compressor/sound focus actually does to the waveform? When I turn it on, it sounds like I've stuck my head into the piano. I wish I could take the board to work and hook it up to an oscilloscope, but it's too darn heavy.


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