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Originally Posted by prenex
You're kidding right? Because "hai" and "lun" in cantonese are profanities.


It's rather unfortunate but Mr. Chen's first name is apparently Hai-Lun. Not only is "Hai" the vulgarism for female genitalia, "Lun" happens to be the word for hole. So it is the perfect storm of the worst name you could possible think of to put on any product much less a piano that sells for thousands that you hope consumers would take seriously. I suppose Hailun's marketing department did not vet that one with the overseas Chinese community. Of course Chen's target market is not overseas Chinese but unsuspecting folks who are unaware they are starring at a profanity on their fallboard everyday. Maybe it's his way of getting back at all those foreigners who didn't take him serious years ago.

I really don't understand why would anyone put his first name on the piano other than vanity? I mean Chen is perfectly acceptable even though every third person has the family name of Chen in China (exaggeration). I mean I would rather see Smith on a piano fallboard than say Dick or in this case something much worse.

Honestly, if Hailun hope to sell overseas, and seeing that every other child taking piano lessons is ethnically Chinese with possibly Cantonese speaking parents, Hailun seriously need to change their name before these family would even touch this brand. I personally would go with Chen, a lot more dignifying.

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This thread is a reminder of why the noun 'effort' took on the function of a verb a few years back. There's a whole lot of effortng going on here, even though my spellcheck tells me that can't be.

Beyond the ridiculous thread title, the opening post is nothing more than an advertisement with some facts stated in error.


Kudos to plover and to Mike Carr though for admirable restraint.

Good luck to Kieran, but I think this one has backfired. The more you try to tidy it up and smooth it over, the worse you'll look.


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Oh, boy. This is the Chevy Nova argument. Can't sell Chevy Nova in Spanish speaking country because "No Va" means "no go" or "it doesn't go". There are more Mandarin speakers than Cantonese speakers and my (limited) understanding of the language is that tones determine meaning, not spelling. I think this is non sequitur.


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Sounds like that old story about the reason for the Chevy Nova being a failure in Mexico. The story goes that the name No va means doesn't go. laugh




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Originally Posted by turandot


Good luck to Kieran, but I think this one has backfired.


I appreciate the sentiment, but I did not pull the trigger--I mean author the OP's post.

Goodnight! sleep


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Originally Posted by 4evr88
Originally Posted by prenex
You're kidding right? Because "hai" and "lun" in cantonese are profanities.


It's rather unfortunate but Mr. Chen's first name is apparently Hai-Lun. Not only is "Hai" the vulgarism for female genitalia, "Lun" happens to be the word for hole. So it is the perfect storm of the worst name you could possible think of to put on any product much less a piano that sells for thousands that you hope consumers would take seriously. I suppose Hailun's marketing department did not vet that one with the overseas Chinese community. Of course Chen's target market is not overseas Chinese but unsuspecting folks who are unaware they are starring at a profanity on their fallboard everyday. Maybe it's his way of getting back at all those foreigners who didn't take him serious years ago.

I really don't understand why would anyone put his first name on the piano other than vanity? I mean Chen is perfectly acceptable even though every third person has the family name of Chen in China (exaggeration). I mean I would rather see Smith on a piano fallboard than say Dick or in this case something much worse.

Honestly, if Hailun hope to sell overseas, and seeing that every other child taking piano lessons is ethnically Chinese with possibly Cantonese speaking parents, Hailun seriously need to change their name before these family would even touch this brand. I personally would go with Chen, a lot more dignifying.


I am sure that the meaning you have looked up in Cantonese is not what his name actually means.

I believe China is Hailun's largest market and even Cantonese speakers do not make any connection between Mr. Chen's given name and the meanings you have ascribed to the 2 separate words.

The Chinese language does not work as you descibed and there are at a minimum 16 different meanings for Hai and 12 different meanings for Lun depending on the tone and context. If you want to know the meaning of his name you need to look at the Chinese characters.

I would much rather buy a piano called Hailun than one called Chen. Just like I would rather buy a piano called Steinway rather than William.


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There have been threads started here before where Hailun is being compared to pianos which are far more expensive than Yamaha and Kawai. Here is one where someone was comparing a Hailun 198 to a Schimmel:

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1240464/1.html

And, remember this barn burner?

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1271630/1.html

Maybe these topics are not so ridiculous after all. There are skeptics, and then there are consumers. The 'stomping' that the OP refers to could have more to do with the price difference than an actual quality comparison.

Thanks,

Nick


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Quote
I believe China is Hailun's largest market and even Cantonese speakers do not make any connection between Mr. Chen's given name and the meanings you have ascribed to the 2 separate words.


Exactly. It may help explain why one single Hailun dealer in Beijing last year sold over 1000 of these pianos.

Congrats to the Op. But not necessary to name other brands the way it was done.

The very fact that the Hailun as a much cheaper piano to the others was to your liking and preference speaks for itself.

Got pictures?

Norbert


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Originally Posted by Nick Mauel


Maybe these topics are not so ridiculous after all. There are skeptics, and then there are consumers. The 'stomping' that the OP refers to could have more to do with the price difference than an actual quality comparison.
Nick


You're right Nick. Hailun pianos compete very well above their price class when people are attracted to their tone. Of course there are those who aren't, but that's true of any brand.

Nothing wrong (that I can think of) with a thread comparing Hailun with more expensive pianos. although it does seem that new Hailun purchasers often come out swinging and things can get contentious.

What's ridiculous is not the topic, but the title.

Kieran wanted to stress that he did not write the post. To me, that goes without saying. That title and that opening post have the words 'counter-productive' stamped all over them for anyone associated with them. A dealer who sold a piano might ask a customer to give him a shout-out here if the customer is pleased with his shopping experience, but I can't imagine that any dealer would ask his customer to come on here swinging a club as a first-time poster saying that Hailun stomps two of the most popular brands in the world. That just doesn't make sense unless you want to enrage a bunch of people and be dismissed as a jackass by a whole bunch more.


So why did the OP post this stuff?

Did he think everyone here was in the dark and he would shine the lantern of his new-found knowledge?

Did he really believe that Hailun pianos " distinguish themselves from other Chinese makers. They hired Bosendorfer's voicing and tuning control guy to get the sound right, so it's a very European, full sound.

You tell me. Did someone tell the OP that nonsense, or did he make it up? Kieran hasn't taken the opporunity here to disabuse him of that idea. I know there are plenty of people who believe that a Chinese national can't go to the bathroom without some Mensa member from the West holding the TP between outstretched index fingers and telling him which way to turn. So that might be a white lie that would serve its purpose.

Or maybe behind the confident bravadeo of the title and the inside scoop on Chen Hailun and the Bosie guy who fell out of a Chinese elm tree, there exists a new member who has just spent a big sum on a piano from China and has doubts about whether he has made a mistake. Maybe it comes down to wanting a little reassurance. It happens.


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Originally Posted by Hideki Matsui
I am a bit skeptical that it would "stomp" on my Kawai, especially in the area of touch and responsiveness, but the MKIII on the SK5 is my favorite action of any piano and your preferences may be completely different than mine.


I first played my Hailun HG 178 in Nick's showroom a little over two years ago. I liked its touch and its tone. Over the last two years, I've grown to appreciate its touch more and more. Its very smooth, and I'd consider it to be VG-to-Excellent. That said, I agree that the Kawaii Milenium III is at least as good, and likely better. Whether its the composite plastics I don't know, but it truly is as smooth as silk. It really is an excellent action.

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Let's rewrite OP's post for a moment as if he would have in fact bought a Yamaha grand.

Quote
We just got a fantastic Yamaha C5 grand. We were looking for a decent grand that was affordable and were thinking first of something Chinese, like Hailun. The Yamaha tone was strong without the Hailun's "in your face" sound. The Hailuns weren't anywhere close to the feel and responsiveness of the Yamaha.


Wondering how many *protests* would have been caused by this post. This despite the fact the Yamaha would have most likely cost close to twice the price of a Hailun.

Could it be that having these Chinese pianos on the market today will at least serve the purpose bringing some thinking into how much any of these mass-produced pianos should perhaps cost in today's world?

Notwithstanding the forever disputable fact who the "finest of them" is exactly at this point in time?

Those who are glad to spend twice the money,will always have the opportunity to do so.

And with it, hopefully *good reason*.

Just don't write the boisterous way O.P. did about his recent purchase - he committed the unforgivable sin of actually liking something better that was also.... er....."cheaper" and then letting the other ones have it.

Not necessary, Sir! frown

Hey,there's always those who boast "how much" something cost they bought.

And then are all the others seeking quality but doing exactly the opposite - Honey, are you reading here?

Norbert wink

Last edited by Norbert; 12/08/10 10:30 PM.

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Good sensible post Norbert.

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Originally Posted by Norbert
Let's rewrite OP's post for a moment as if he would have in fact bought a Yamaha grand.

Quote
We just got a fantastic Yamaha C5 grand. We were looking for a decent grand that was affordable and were thinking first of something Chinese, like Hailun. The Yamaha tone was strong without the Hailun's "in your face" sound. The Hailuns weren't anywhere close to the feel and responsiveness of the Yamaha.


Wondering how many *protests* would have been caused by this post. This despite the fact the Yamaha would have most likely cost close to twice the price of a Hailun.

I think the reason there wouldn't have been many protests is that most people believe you rewritten paragraph to be true, especially for the highest level Yamaha grands. Of course, if the thread title was "Yamaha stomps Hailun" a lot of poeple would still find the title outrageous and silly.

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What Kawai were you comparing to? Of course the real comparison would be a Kawai that's the same cost, which is probably why you gave the Hailun good marks.

People on this forum like to compare to more expensive pianos (RX, C-series) but forget about the price difference. Dollar for dollar it's really difficult to beat Hailun. In my own search I'm leaning toward Kawai, but the Hailuns pack a huge bang for the buck.

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Wow. What an amazing group of responses to my original post. Let me clarify a few things:

1) I'm a real person who wrote this because I adore the piano and think it's a tremendous deal. I'd upload a photo of the piano in my living room but the image-management system on this board wants me to have it posted on a website first and I don't have a site on which to do so. Want to talk to me? Call 612-419-4405.

2) I am prone to using strong langage to grab a reader's attention--a relic of my time as a newspaper reporter years ago.

3) I provided the reasons why I bought the piano in the post. I was surpised and delighted by Hailun. It defied my expectations for a Chinese piano. If readers thought I was showing a condescending attitude toward China, so be it. I don't think I'm the only American to have the impression that China is great at making relatively inexpensive products and not known for what might be called a luxury good that requires great skill to create.

4) I understand why a strong posting by a first-time poster would be viewed with suspicion after reading the comments in response. I don't understand why someone sharing his enthusiasm for a purchase would be treated with hostility.
Perhaps one of you who did so could let me know what YOUR motivation is.

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Originally Posted by mr_gone
Wow. What an amazing group of responses to my original post. Let me clarify a few things:


Fair enough. I'll clarify a few things for you:
  • It is not unprecedented for one person, usually someone who sells pianos, to create two accounts (the second is referred to as a "sock puppet") and use them to tout how great a particular brand is. Needless to say, when people find out they've been duped they're pretty angry about it.
  • It is also not unprecedented for a sales person to create a single account posing as a "satisfied customer", also talking up the brand they sell or their dealership.

This has happened a lot over the years so people who have been around for a while are naturally suspicious when they see a new poster with an overly enthusiastic evaluation of a certain brand.

Oh, and congratulations on your new piano! Your photo didn't upload, see the instructions on uploading photos on the site. We all love new piano pictures.


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Mr. Gone,

I'm glad you love your new piano. I was quite impressed with Hailun pianos the first time I tried one.

One of the things that always comes to mind when I read these "types" of threads is:
Who is "Mr. Gone"?
Is he a professional pianist? An adult beginner?
What kind of music does he like?
What kind of credibility does he have with his friends, family, and colleagues?
Is he reasonable or impulsive?
Is he knowledgeable or ignorant?

Who knows?

This is a forum where most posters are anonymous. But as time goes by, and you read hundreds of posts by individuals you start to get a sense that you "know" them in a certain sort of way. There are posters here who have, over time, fulfilled a certain criteria that exists for me that deems them credible in their opinions.

Without some sort of credibility, opinions IMO are worthless.

I own a Shigeru Kawai. I'm an artist who's endorsed by the Shigeru Kawai piano company, which for me is great. It makes me feel "validated" and "special" to have a well respected piano maker stand behind me and say "We endorse this artist".

However, any reasonable person would assume that I have a personal bias towards these pianos, and they would therefore most likely discount the credibility of my opinions on any thread where a discussion about Kawai's is involved (rightly so); Even if I am strongly committed to giving unbiased opinions, others won't take me as seriously as someone who is impartial.

If I walked into a monthly meeting of 'The Royal Order of Single Malt Scotch Connoisseurs Society' and confidently proclaimed that
"Ballantyne's Finest blows away Oban 14 and Highland Park 18 and it's only 1/10th the price(!)" they would probably begin laughing and then ask
"Who the heck are you?"
I could then reply with "It doesn't matter who I am! I have a right to MY own opinion."

And I'd be right.
But who cares?
My opinions about Scotch are about as valuable as a 6 year old's opinions on global warming or quantum physics. (I can't even SPELL quantum physics without my computer correcting me)

Opinions are all just opinions--BUT-- some carry more weight because of the credibility others attach to those stating them.
If I know NOTHING about you, why should I care what you have to say?

Enjoy your piano!


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Originally Posted by mr_gone
I don't understand why someone sharing his enthusiasm for a purchase would be treated with hostility.
Perhaps one of you who did so could let me know what YOUR motivation is.

Hi,
first of all, glad You found the piano You love: for me that's been a fantastic experience and, from your words, I understand it's been the same for You.

But I must say that the way You wrote your post took away a bit my will to cheer with You, and not for your enthusiasm: it was the impression that, with that post, You meant to "destroy" (sorry for the limited vocabulary, but I'm italian and write english as I can...) some piano makes, instead of sharing with us the joy of finding a piano You like.
Maybe, if You had gone in more detail about what you liked of your Hailun piano, the way You tried and felt, instead of simply comparing it to Yamaha and Kawai and saying it was better, I would have been more "with you" in reading. Maybe.

Anyway, I've beet told from a technician I know that the W&L 198 (here in Italy Hailun has the Wendl & Lung brand) is actually a very good piano (I could never try one myself), so enjoy your new piano!

Bye
Paolo


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Laying all criticism and skepticism aside, this thread has generated some excellent posts. Maybe a little “irritation stimulation” is a good thing on occasion. smile

I particularly liked what AJF had to say about credibility of the members here…. lot of truth to that.

And, Mr. Gone, I doubt you have to worry about anyone calling you at the phone number you listed, though that was a courageous gesture on your part to validate your sincerity.

I’m still looking forward to the pictures on your new piano!!

Take care,

Rick


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Thanks for the clarifications. Look, all I wanted to do was say to people who are looking for a piano that they should try Hailun. Comparably priced Yamahas and Kawais that I played weren't nearly as nice. I thought that posting this info in a forum called "Piano Forum" on a site called "Piano World" would be an appropriate spot for it. I didn't know that I had to prove my qualifications to say anything before I wrote it, that I had to have an understanding of pianos comparable to a physicist's knowledge of quantum physics and that I'd be told that I shouldn't enjoy the piano I just bought because I might not be able to get as much money for it if I were to decide to sell it. Now I know.

Also, I didn't know that saying something nice about the guy who sold it to me would mean he'd end up with a bunch of arrows in his back. That I really regret.

I read the posting descriptions for photos and I couldn't get it to work. Send me a PM and I'll send you a photo.

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