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Does anyone else find themselves really impatient with their own progress and how do you over come the ''I'm never going to be great!'' feeling?

Anybody who has NOT suffered from this must also be lying about all sorts of other things.

Play beautifully, in what you're playing. Don't assume that just because there is less ink on the page your music isn't beautiful.

I had nine yrs. of classical lessons as a child, but I have below-average talent for the piano, and at the end of nine yrs. all I could manage was easy preludes and nocturnes, dismal progress for nine yrs.

I quit playing in high school out of frustration over my lack of progress, and when I restarted as an adult 20 yrs. later, teaching myself this time, I had hopes of making a much better showing the second time around, as I was older, stronger, wiser, etc. However, I soon discovered that nothing had changed: I still could not progress on the piano, no matter how hard I worked and practiced. Yet I was determined to play the biggest, most difficult pieces, the ones that only concert pianists can play, and so I simply started to play them, note by note, super-slow, literally one bar a day initially.

My reasoning behind this approach was that anyone can play one bar of any piece, no matter how difficult, and if you can play one bar, you can play two, three, etc., until you can play the whole thing. The difficulty lies in the fact that there are thousands of bars, in, say, a major concerto movement. And thus, it's going to take a lot of time to cover all those bars. This is the key, time. If you try to work up a major concerto movement fast, like a concert pianist/conservatory student can, you'll end up in the hospital. You've got to take it slow if you lack talent.

For example, I wanted to play the Chopin op. 14 more than anything else, but of course this is one of the most difficult pieces in the repertoire and light yrs. above my level--of the top twenty concert pianists in the world today, only about 4 can play it, and of those four only one plays it well. When I first looked at the score, I was scared off by the waves and waves of high-speed arpeggios, and I didn't look at it again till a yr. later. But I was determined to play it and so I simply started to, literally one bar a day, slow, and writing in all the letter names of the notes and all accidentals. At some point I tried to speed things up and take it a page or more a day, and I literally ended up in the hospital. I even had to quit playing for long periods because I made myself ill trying to push the learning of it, when I have no talent. I suffered frightening, although temporary, physical problems: finger, hand, wrist, and elbow pains; heartbeat irregularities; violent meniere's attacks; hand paralysis; internal hemorraging; incapacitating back pain; etc.--this from trying to work it up fast, like a concert pianist. Eventually I had to slow down and use time and repetition as a substitute for the talent that I lacked. I first started on it in Nov. 1991, and by repetitive effort I now have it up to about 3/4 speed, with errors, unbelievable for a player with no talent on such a difficult piece.

So this is how you play any piece in the repertoire, regardless of your ability. Use time and repetition. For example, suppose you want to play the first movement of the Rachmaninoff Third Piano Concerto, a big-time piece. If you try to sit down and blaze through it, you'll get nowhere, and land in the hospital. You need to take it slow. Get the two-piano score and dig in. Play the 2nd piano part where the first piano is silent. But you've got to take it slow or you'll end up in intensive care. For an amateur you'll typically have to take it one bar a day initially, so do that. Play the first bar, and put it down and do whatever else you've been doing. The next day, play the second bar, etc. At this rate, one bar a day, it will take you about a yr. to get through the movement (but after you've gotten through it, you will have "played" the first mvt. of the Rach. No. 3, something that few people can do).

After you get through it the first time, go right back to the beginning and proceed in the same way--don't even for a second think about concentrating on "the most difficult sections" first, because everything in it will be difficult. The second time around you may find that you've gained enough strength and experience after a yr. so that you can do 2 bars a day instead of one, which cuts the time to cycle through it a second time in half, a 100% improvement in only a yr. on a difficult piece, nothing to scoff at in anyone's book. If you keep at it like this, slow and steady, you'll eventually be able to do a page a day, then two, three, etc. What you're aiming for is to be able to play the whole movement through in one sitting, slow and with errors (it may take ten yrs. of more to get to that point), because when you can do that you've essentially got it "licked" and can just play it over and over like any other piece until it's perfected.

Many people on these forums strongly object to this approach. They feel that you have to develop the "foundation" for big pieces first. Don't listen to these people. They are experienced players who are still playing dead-end salon pieces after yrs. of expensive lessons, and will never play something like the Rach. No. 3 First Movement. Leap right ahead of these losers and go straight to the big stuff, now.

Does anyone else find themselves really impatient with their own progress

how do you over come the ''I'm never going to be great!'' feeling?

OMG, that sounds like pure torture. Why would anyone want to subject themselves to that? I have enough stress in my life without creating more. LOL. I too lack talent, but I am perfectly happy learning pieces that are on my level and enjoying what I can do at the moment. I'm progressing slowly, but there are always new pieces to learn, and it makes me so happy when I can play them well.

One major thing I suffer from is when I sit at the piano and my hands touch the keys, if I know someone is there or is listening I become so uptight and tense, it's like my fear of making mistakes makes my fingers fumble. It's so irritating and yet no amount of practise infront of people has ever made it go away.

Focus on and enjoy the process of being at the pinao. Let go of the need to 'be great.' The irony of this approach is that you'll reach your goal a lot faster.

I start losing the old ones (even if they're supposed to be easier). It makes me feel like I'm not moving forward.

When it comes to performance anxiety, one approach could be to imagine you are giving a gift instead of you being judged. This turns the energy around from everything being directed at you, to you directing energies out = less pressure. Even if you think you are performing badly, try to still view and feel it as a gift. The audience will appreciate this (and feel very awkward if you are giving them the power to judge your performance or if they sense you need their approval). Sometimes this is really easy I find, and sometimes quite difficult!

Please tell me I'm not the only one who suffers from this?

I think because playing the piano looks so effortless I always assumed I'd pick it up quick, but unfortunately I was never that big of a natural. I envy the people who can just sit and play beautifully and always forget that they, at some point, were just learners too.

Does anyone else find themselves really impatient with their own progress and how do you over come the ''I'm never going to be great!'' feeling?

When it comes to performance anxiety, one approach could be to imagine you are giving a gift instead of you being judged. This turns the energy around from everything being directed at you, to you directing energies out = less pressure. Even if you think you are performing badly, try to still view and feel it as a gift. The audience will appreciate this (and feel very awkward if you are giving them the power to judge your performance or if they sense you need their approval). Sometimes this is really easy I find, and sometimes quite difficult!

I'm glad you find it useful, rocket88. William Westney goes into this at great detail about this in his book The Perfect Wrong Note.

"Let go of the need to sound good" is another good advice from Kenny Werner that I find makes enjoyment come easy (as well as sounding better, as a bonus!).

When it comes to performance anxiety, one approach could be to imagine you are giving a gift instead of you being judged.

Does anyone else suffer from the feeling that when you 'perform' you are showing (or trying to) off? Which is I suppose contrary to the whole performance anxiety thing..... I'm doomed..... Suffering from the fear of being judged AND the fear of appearing to show off....... aaaaaahhhhh!!